Is jesus really god: The bible says NO
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Since when did the bible mentioned jesus is god? An obviously important question sinisterly avoided.
Is Jesus Really G-d?
"To whom then will you liken G-d, or what likeness compare with him?"
Isaiah 40:18 (NRS)
Christian theology holds that Jesus was more than just the Messiah. They hold that Jesus is G-d Himself. First, let’s explore a couple of New Testament verses which make it perfectly clear that Jesus was subordinate to G-d, and not equal to Him:
Mark 13:32 But of that day and [that] hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father. (KJV)
There are things that G-d keeps from Himself? Is such a thing even possible? It’s obvious that these verses contradict Jesus being equal and of the same substance as G-d Almighty. Christians say he’s G-d, and then they say he’s the Son of G-d. Make up your mind. Which one is he? Is he G-d or is he the Messiah? He can’t be both, and closer examination will show he is neither.
Ezekiel 37:23 Neither shall they defile themselves any more with their idols, nor with their detestable things, nor with any of their transgressions: but I will save them out of all their dwelling places, wherein they have sinned, and will cleanse them: so shall they be my people, and I will be their G-d. [24] And David My servant [shall be] king over them; and they all shall have one shepherd: they shall also walk in my judgments, and observe my statutes, and do them. (KJV)
Christians and Jews agree that chapter 37 of Ezekiel is messianic. The object of verse 24 of Ezekiel 37 is the Messiah, and it is clear that the Messiah is G-d’s servant, and not G-d Himself.
Of all chapters in the Bible, chapter 13 of Deuteronomy has always pulled at me. Let us examine this chapter in greater detail.
Deuteronomy 13:1 The entire word that I command you, that shall you observe to do; you shall not add to it and you shall not subtract from it. [2] If there should stand up in your midst a prophet or a dreamer of a dream, and he will produce to you a sign or a wonder, [3] and the sign or the wonder comes about, of which he spoke to you, saying "Let us follow gods of others that you did not know and we shall worship them!" [4] do not hearken to the words of that prophet or to that dreamer of a dream, for HASHEM, your G-d, is testing you to know whether you love HASHEM, your G-d with all your heart and with all your soul. [5] HASHEM, your G-d, shall you follow and Him shall you fear; His commandments shall you observe and to His voice shall you hearken; Him shall you serve and to Him shall you cleave. [6] And that prophet and that dreamer of a dream shall be put to death, for he had spoken perversion against HASHEM, your G-d Who takes you out of the land of Egypt, and Who redeems you from the house of slavery to make you stray from the path on which HASHEM, you G-d, has commanded you to go; and you shall destroy the evil from your midst. (Artscroll)
So, what are the lessons gleaned here? First off, we are to never alter the precepts of the Torah, we are never to add to it nor subtract from it. Secondly, we are not to follow gods that we did not know. Did my ancestors from 2,500 years ago or earlier know Jesus as G-d? Did they pray to Jesus as Lord and Messiah? Of course, not. Jesus had not been born yet. The point is that we did not know a G-d in the form of man and since it was something we did not know, as verses 3 and 4 show, we are not to listen to these teachings. Chapter 13 of Deuteronomy is not the only chapter of the Torah that deals with false prophecy. Moses gave another warning in this regard:
Deuteronomy 18:15 A prophet from your midst, from your brethren, like me, shall HASHEM, your G-d, establish for you to him shall you hearken. [16] According to all that you asked of HASHEM, your G-d, in Horeb on the day of the congregation, saying, "I can no longer hear the voice of HASHEM, my G-d, and this great fire I can no longer see, so that I shall not die." [17] Then HASHEM said to me: They have done well in what they have said. [18] I will establish a prophet for them from among their brethren, like you, and I will place My words in his mouth; He shall speak to them everything that I will command him. [19] And it shall be that the man who will not hearken to My words that he shall speak in My name, I will exact from him, [20] But the prophet who willfully shall speak a word in My name, that which I have not commanded him to speak, or who shall speak in the name of the gods of others that prophet shall die. [21] When you say in your heart,":How can we know the word that HASHEM has not spoken?" [22] If the prophet will speak in the Name of HASHEM and that thing will not occur and not come about that is the word that HASHEM has not spoken; with willfulness has the prophet spoken it, you should not fear him. (Artscroll)
Didn’t Apostles such as Paul believe and preach that the return of Jesus would occur within their lifetimes? It didn’t happen. What can we learn from this? That these teachings were foreign to the core of Judaism, that it was not the word of the Lord and that we should neither fear nor trust those who spoke it. To further magnify this point, let us look at the beginning of the Ten Commandments:
Exodus 20:2 I [am] the LORD thy G-d, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage. [3] Thou shalt have no other gods before me. (KJV)
Contemplate the importance of this commandment for a moment. "No other gods before Him." Christians will contend that Jesus IS G-d, claiming they don't have any other gods before Him, but as noted in the verses from the New Testament quoted above, it is plain to see that not only was Jesus separate from G-d, but he was NOT G-d. What do we have if we pray to Jesus? We have polytheism.
From Deuteronomy 34:10-12, we learn that Moses was the greatest prophet of all time, whom G-d knew "face to face." He taught us everything there is to know about the nature of G-d.
Numbers 23:19 G-d [is] not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent: hath he said, and shall he not do [it]? Or hath he spoken, and shall he not make it good? (KJV)
Psalms 146:3 Put not your trust in princes, [nor] in the son of man, in whom [there is] no help. (KJV)From this, we learn that G-d is NOT a man. When G-d appeared before Moses prior to the delivering of the Ten Commandments, G-d made His presence known amidst a cloud of smoke. If He were a man, why didn’t the Holy One, Blessed be He, take on physical form and appear as a man? The answer is amazingly simple: G-d is infinite, and incorporeal. To take on physical form would limit the limitless, and He would not take on physical form because that might have led the Israelites to idolatry.
On a slightly different note, didn’t Jesus refer to himself quite often as the Son of Man? Aren’t we to learn from Psalm 146 that there is no help to be had from the Son of Man? There’s a reason why Jesus called himself this. Jesus was a Jew, and as such, there are things that Christians who deify him will miss. It is quite likely that Jesus was trying to prevent his followers from deifying him.
What reason is there to think that Jesus is G-d? What reason is there to think that ANY man is G-d? So a man shows you signs and wonders, and a couple of people claim he rose from the dead. How do you test a man to know that he’s G-d? What could Jesus possibly have done to prove He was G-d, especially given the text of the New Testament, which makes it plainly clear that he was subordinate to G-d? That which is subordinate to G-d must be SEPARATE from G-d.
In an occasion that keeps Christian apologists fumbling, we have the following passage, from Matthew and Mark:Matthew 19:16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life? [17] And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? [there is] none good but one, [that is], G-d: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments. (KJV)
Mark 10:17 And when he was gone forth into the way, there came one running, and kneeled to him, and asked him, Good Master, what shall I do that I may inherit eternal life? [18] And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? [there is] none good but one, [that is], G-d. (KJV)These verses present a back-breaking problem to a Christian who believes in Jesus as G-d, because Jesus states emphatically that he wasn't. The translators of NIV were quick to recognize the problem, and adjust their text accordingly:
Matthew 19:16 Now a man came up to Jesus and asked, "Teacher, what good thing must I do to get eternal life?" [17] "Why do you ask me about what is good?" Jesus replied. "There is only One who is good. If you want to enter life, obey the commandments." (NIV)
It's very slick, it's very sneaky. And it's also very sloppy. See the same scene below from Mark in NIV:
Mark 10:17 As Jesus started on his way, a man ran up to him and fell on his knees before him. "Good teacher," he asked, "what must I do to inherit eternal life?" [18] "Why do you call me good?" Jesus answered. "No one is good--except G-d alone." (NIV)
NIV's rendering of this passage from Mark's Gospel makes the point even more clearly than King James did.
Jesus makes it clear that he is the son of G-d, which for no reason should be taken literally. All Jews can be considered sons of G-d. See Hosea 11:1. Even others can be under that terrific label.
Matthew 5:9 Blessed [are] the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of G-d.
Christians will object, saying that of course this isn’t to be taken literally. Well, neither is it to be taken literally with Jesus! Gentiles come to the New Testament with a clean slate, without a true understanding of what came before. Well, the Jews can view the New Testament from a different perspective, the proper perspective.
Jesus wasn’t G-d. The worship of Jesus is precisely what G-d warned us against.
The plain fact is that there is not a single verse in the entire New Testament that makes the claim that Jesus is G-d. If such verses did indeed exist, then Christianity wouldn’t be splintered into so many hundreds, if not thousands, of sects, and the councils of Nicea and Constantinople would not have taken place to determine Jesus’ divinity.Hebrews 5:8 Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered; (KJV)
G-d Almighty needed to learn obedience? Isn’t G-d all knowing? Does He not know everything?
John 14:28 Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come [again] unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I. (KJV)
Jesus clearly states that he is less than G-d. That which is less than G-d cannot be the same as G-d.
Luke 2:52 And Jesus increased in wisdom and stature, and in favour with G-d and man. (KJV)
Would G-d grow in wisdom and stature? Would G-d grow in His own favor? It is noteworthy that this verse from Luke’s Gospel bears a remarkable resemblance to another Biblical verse:
1 Samuel 2:26 And the child Samuel grew on, and was in favour both with the LORD, and also with men. (KJV)
The fact remains. Nowhere even in the New Testament is it taught that Jesus is part of a triune godhead. Nowhere does he make the claim that he was G-d. Nowhere in the New Testament is there the reason to believe that he is G-d.
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post in joke forum la!
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Originally posted by youyayu:
post in joke forum la!
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Originally posted by youyayu:
post in joke forum la!
jerry boi... we see show can le...nom nom nom...
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Is Jehovah or Yaweh really God? The answer is still no!!!
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Originally posted by Herzog_Zwei:
Is Jehovah or Yaweh really God? The answer is still no!!!
YHWH is God the only one true God. All others are pathetic either dead thing or poor pathetic evil spirit. -
Originally posted by Miracles&Prophecies:
YHWH is God the only one true God. All others are pathetic either dead thing or poor pathetic evil spirit.
Just like you believe that CSJ is a good politician. Quit dreaming lah. -
This is confusing. I was taught that God, Jesus and Holy Spirit are one, that is why they are called Trinity.
OMG!
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the trinity would never make sense. It is pagan, since the egyptians. The hide in secret clubs like the freemasons and celtics the splintered groups of today.
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Originally posted by KnowMyPower:
the trinity would never make sense. It is pagan, since the egyptians. The hide in secret clubs like the freemasons and celtics the splintered groups of today.
God never made sense to any normal human being at all. -
perhaps you ask the wrong questions Herzog.
Example: you see god is cruel and look for stories like killing babies and women.
But if you seek further and see His character you will understand that we do not know if upon death he can take away their suffering. Or that how you know young ones cant be wicked? Your questioning lines are such because you seek to be omnipotent but only god is and hence your anger.
Its the questions you ask.
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It’s obvious that these verses contradict Jesus being equal and of the same substance as G-d Almighty. Christians say he’s G-d, and then they say he’s the Son of G-d. Make up your mind. Which one is he? Is he G-d or is he the Messiah? He can’t be both, and closer examination will show he is neither.
"Nowhere even in the New Testament is it taught that Jesus is part of a triune godhead"
"He can’t be both," Why not? Whereever from the Bible did you get this notion? He is GOD, because He created this world and us, and He is the Messiah, as He died on the cross for our sins. And what is this "Closer examination" you talk about? Please tell me what you are examining, thank you! ^^
And another version of Mark 13:32 can be found in Matthew 24:36,- "But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only." If you look at the context in which Jesus said this, it was because he was explaining to his disciples about the Day of the Lord's coming. Later after verse 36, we see that Jesus tells them that, in verse 37, -"But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be." And reading the whole of chapter 24 tells us that Jesus not only knew when the Lord's coming would be, but he also knew what was going to happen in those days, and for that read the prohecies in Revelations and the Major and Minor prophets in the Bible. Realise this: God is a triune God, and that He is the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit ALTOGETHER!!! We know this for in Luke 12:29b, Jesus says that :"The Lord our God is one Lord:" We know that Jesus is the Son as he called God the father as "my Father", as noted in Matthew 24:36 earlier. Luke 6:5 states that "the Son of Man (or Jesus) is Lord also of the sabbath". In John 8: 19, we see that Jesus states that :" if ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also." Giving us more proof that God the Father and God the Son (Jesus) are one.
I dod not really have time to cover the rest of your argument, but do realise this: GOD is GOD. DO NOT TRY TO USE A HUMAN BRIAN TO TRY TO FULLY UNDERSTAND YOUR CREATOR. THE CREATOR IS MORE POWERFUL THAN THE CREATION, AND IT TAKES MORE THAN OUR OWN UNDERSTANDING TO KNOW GOD, WHO IS FAR MMORE SUPREME THAN US HUMANS. HE IS GOD AFTER ALL.
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Originally posted by KnowMyPower:
perhaps you ask the wrong questions Herzog.
Example: you see god is cruel and look for stories like killing babies and women.
But if you seek further and see His character you will understand that we do not know if upon death he can take away their suffering. Or that how you know young ones cant be wicked? Your questioning lines are such because you seek to be omnipotent but only god is and hence your anger.
Its the questions you ask.
Young ones can be wicked just as your god is wicked by nature. I do not ask to be omnipotent but asking who the fark give permission for god to be omnipotent. -
No man can be FREE because he was created by another more powerful being.
It is the evil one that lies and tells you, you can do anything.
But the natural world around us that we depend on like food (plants and fruits) we did not even create one bit and yet those rebellious (even the jews) yell like lunatics because their hearts wasnt right.
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Originally posted by Fantagf:
This is confusing. I was taught that God, Jesus and Holy Spirit are one, that is why they are called Trinity.
OMG!
That's why it's imporatant to know the God whom we worship lest these kind of lost people sway believers into their lost ways. As far as the topic concerned Christ is my savior and my God in my life! -
You assume too much because you want to judge. why do you bother if god takes away a life. He is so powerful he can take it back again.
Is it not possible that a young one borne of pagan family is evil? how do you fathom between bloodline and destiny. If you seek the creator and questions him in humility, that question would lead you to understand His position of judgement and responsibility.
Who are we to fathom other lives unless you are a god?
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Originally posted by KnowMyPower:
No man can be FREE because he was created by another more powerful being.
It is the evil one that lies and tells you, you can do anything.
But the natural world around us that we depend on like food (plants and fruits) we did not even create one bit and yet those rebellious (even the jews) yell like lunatics because their hearts wasnt right.
And who created the more powerful being, for there cannot be an uncaused cause. -
Jesus is the son of God. I remember some phrase
''For God so lived the world that he gave his one and only son, Jesus Christ, to save and die for mankind''.
So maybe God is a true trinity ( just like how states form a country), consisting of Jesus, Jehovah(or YAHWEH) and the holy spirit. so these 3 are actually a combined ONE FORCE and different individuals. But are you sure there is no proof from the bible that Jesus is not God? Jesus said he is the great 'I AM', which means he is GOD. In anyway, Being part of the trinity means being GOD.
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*loved
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Jesus is the prophet priest and king
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Jesus is God.
It may seem like a tough concept, but God sent His Son, Jesus to save the world. Jesus is from God and is also God. So is the Holy Spirit. It's a three-in-one/one in three concept.
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you are born to read and undrstand plain english and hebrew explanation if necessary, so G-d is knd and explained His test to you, YES HE IS TESTING US, HE HAS ALREADY DECLARED. Just because someone pass you the "ROMANtic someone die for you sweet story doesnt even come near to the seriousness of G-d's words.
Deuteronomy 18:15 A prophet from your midst, from your brethren, like me, shall HASHEM, your G-d, establish for you to him shall you hearken. [16] According to all that you asked of HASHEM, your G-d, in Horeb on the day of the congregation, saying, "I can no longer hear the voice of HASHEM, my G-d, and this great fire I can no longer see, so that I shall not die." [17] Then HASHEM said to me: They have done well in what they have said. [18] I will establish a prophet for them from among their brethren, like you, and I will place My words in his mouth; He shall speak to them everything that I will command him. [19] And it shall be that the man who will not hearken to My words that he shall speak in My name, I will exact from him, [20] But the prophet who willfully shall speak a word in My name, that which I have not commanded him to speak, or who shall speak in the name of the gods of others that prophet shall die. [21] When you say in your heart,":How can we know the word that HASHEM has not spoken?" [22] If the prophet will speak in the Name of HASHEM and that thing will not occur and not come about that is the word that HASHEM has not spoken; with willfulness has the prophet spoken it, you should not fear him. (Artscroll)
YOU HAVE BEEN INFROMED CLEARLY, MAKE YOUR CHOICE. G-D DONT CONTRADICT. WHO ARE YOU TO NOT ONLY NOT ENQUIRE BUT SAY HE IS NOT? I dont even dare to question.
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To the threadstarter....the fact and truth is that the bible confirms Jesus' identity as the Son of God. All the scriptures you quoted are either irrelevant or out of context from your topic...and you merely added your own meaning when its talking about other things.
For example, you said: Jesus wasn’t G-d. The worship of Jesus is precisely what G-d warned us against.Tell me from where you gather that from? From where did God warn against worshipping Jesus?
Contrary to that...God approved of Him at his baptism and said He is His beloved Son, in whom He is well pleased...In the book of Revelations, all nations will be made to bow before Him in worship....so how did you gather that?
Just about everything you have said are nonsensical and illogical...in fact, I think most likely you're from a certain anti-christian religion....your arguments seem lifted from a certain website I found....which is from a certain extremist religion...