City Harvest church founder Kong Hee and 4 others arrested
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Originally posted by lce:
the 4 wordsYOU CAN FUCK OFF
wrong la! "What do you think?"
then he will dismiss all the members for them go home to think.
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Originally posted by Honeybunz:
wrong la! "What do you think?"
then he will dismiss all the members for them go home to think.
Or it can be... Time to wake up!!
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It's a honest mistake
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I know its bad and extreme to say that these people shouldn't breed..but then for the greater good................
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I know some christian colleagues, we always share our beliefs and debate over it. I debate about buddhism and then they will debate to me about christianity is better than the rest.
But one issue I don't understand is why some christians donate a good part of their wealth to the church. Its not small sum, it is like, some of them save $10,000 and then thinking of using for other means like deposit for house or that new car, then one day the pastor preaching, say there is a need for new building fund or some ministry in some desolate area - they decide to channel the money to the church. They tell me its for the extension of their kingdom in heaven.
When this money go into the pockets of the pastors, there is great great temptation for abuse of power. There is ABSOLUTELY no accountability. They don't audit their accounts at all. I got a friend (an ex gf) who works as an accountant at a big church, she tells me that there is no control on where the expenses go to. No signatory, no authorisation letter. The pastor just tell her to deposit this money or that money into this anonymous bank account or pass large swarths of cash to this certain leader of the ministry. All this goes on without the knowledge of the congregation.
Unlike the big listed corporations, they have internal audit and proper controls in place to ensure no abuse of power and money. Churches have none of this.
This Kong Hee case is a good development. At least the singaporean government have laws to protect the congregation.
In malaysia, the govt don't bother as long as its not a government bribery case. So the churches here can go anything they want with the money. Last year christmas, I was forced to attend the church by my christian boss (but I still remain truthful to buddhism), just out of respect for other religions. So during the service, I watch them pass the offering bag around. But I refuse to give a cent. Even when they say its for a good cause, money goes out to help the orphanages, the poor and the homeless. But how much of this money really goes to the underprivaledge? before it channels and end up into pockets of pastors and senior church leaders? City Harvest is a good example of abuse of money.
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I understand your sentiment on the donation.
For me, when people ask donation from me and if I do donate (if they seem legit enough), I tell myself I am donating for a good cause, whether they are lying or not, I don't care as they will answer for it eventually.
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the donations are for the work of god. hence to believers the people at the top has to account to god, not to the govt. but then in this modern era things should change. at least thats what i think. but if believers think it isnt necessary then why should we outsiders bother? if there are any abuse its church funds, not private funds. in short, its none of our business. of course in this instance, the govt interfere because they allegedly broke the law.
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Originally posted by speakoutfor:
I know some christian colleagues, we always share our beliefs and debate over it. I debate about buddhism and then they will debate to me about christianity is better than the rest.
But one issue I don't understand is why some christians donate a good part of their wealth to the church. Its not small sum, it is like, some of them save $10,000 and then thinking of using for other means like deposit for house or that new car, then one day the pastor preaching, say there is a need for new building fund or some ministry in some desolate area - they decide to channel the money to the church. They tell me its for the extension of their kingdom in heaven.
When this money go into the pockets of the pastors, there is great great temptation for abuse of power. There is ABSOLUTELY no accountability. They don't audit their accounts at all. I got a friend (an ex gf) who works as an accountant at a big church, she tells me that there is no control on where the expenses go to. No signatory, no authorisation letter. The pastor just tell her to deposit this money or that money into this anonymous bank account or pass large swarths of cash to this certain leader of the ministry. All this goes on without the knowledge of the congregation.
Unlike the big listed corporations, they have internal audit and proper controls in place to ensure no abuse of power and money. Churches have none of this.
This Kong Hee case is a good development. At least the singaporean government have laws to protect the congregation.
In malaysia, the govt don't bother as long as its not a government bribery case. So the churches here can go anything they want with the money. Last year christmas, I was forced to attend the church by my christian boss (but I still remain truthful to buddhism), just out of respect for other religions. So during the service, I watch them pass the offering bag around. But I refuse to give a cent. Even when they say its for a good cause, money goes out to help the orphanages, the poor and the homeless. But how much of this money really goes to the underprivaledge? before it channels and end up into pockets of pastors and senior church leaders? City Harvest is a good example of abuse of money.
Many churches collect tithes and offerings that go towards the operating expenditure of the church. In that sense, givers normally leave it to the leaders to use the money "for God's Kingdom" and there's little to find fault with.
I think the problem with CHC is that monies earmarked for specific purposes were used for other purposes and there was no transparency. Perhaps had they initially asked for monies to be donated specifically FOR Sun Ho's music career they could used it until song (pun intended).
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i dont understand why people continue to donate to organisations that already have way too much money. its not just the churches but the charities as well. it must be very tempting to those with access. why not donate to other causes? there are many in need of help yet people continue to donate to rich organisations who end up either abusing the funds or sitting on it.
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Actually one need not just help financially.
One can also help physically....it can be more meaningful too.
It also bypasses the issues raised in above posts.
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Originally posted by SBS2601D:
Actually one need not just help financially.
One can also help physically....it can be more meaningful too.
It also bypasses the issues raised in above posts.
you are right. but sick people need money for operations and medications. starving people needs money to buy food. its sad to see all these funds sitting in banks accounts of such organisations when it could be used to help these people. its even sadder when people in power abuse such funds. but then what to do if donors dont see it that way. -
Originally posted by dragg:
you are right. but sick people need money for operations and medications. starving people needs money to buy food. its sad to see all these funds sitting in banks accounts of such organisations when it could be used to help these people. its even sadder when people in power abuse such funds. but then what to do if donors dont see it that way.True. I agree.
But its also possible to have non-profit organisations to have transparency and promise from the onset to have zero profits and dividends.
One way is to make the beneficiaries shareholders of the organisation...
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Originally posted by dragg:
i dont understand why people continue to donate to organisations that already have way too much money.
its not just the churches but the charities as well.
it must be very tempting to those with access.
why not donate to other causes? there are many in need of help yet people continue to donate to rich organisations who end up either abusing the funds or sitting on it.
I think the preferred way is to give directly to those whom you know are in real need. Or give to specific organisations who have specific goals and are pretty transparent. For this it might be good to have something like this http://www.ministrywatch.com/ as well.
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The issue here is Do these people have any "conscience?" Individuals give from their hearts to help the community not to help someone's singing career! Then again how can these 4 others collaborate and follow blindly ? Do they have accounting experience? Don't they know standard practice? Who ever is the judge in this case. No more slap on the wrist please! NKF durai , Renci. and now this one! what is happening to my great Singapura????
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Look at this idiot. Not only does he want to donate to defend Kong Hee, he thinks that everyone's donations for charity can be anyhow used to defend.
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>point and laff<
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I hope that was sarcasm.
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Originally posted by alize:
Look at this idiot. Not only does he want to donate to defend Kong Hee, he thinks that everyone's donations for charity can be anyhow used to defend.
the mother must be very sad.
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S$500,000 bail for each and they can all afford it . ...amazing grace! And 200 supporters outside court house!...amazing grace!
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There will always be supporters and detractors. I am just gonna sit back and wait for the law report to come out. If it's even worth reported at all.
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Originally posted by Bikeforceful:
S$500,000 bail for each and they can all afford it . ...amazing grace!
And 200 supporters outside court house!...amazing grace!these 200 ppl got no school to attend, no job to do?
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Actually it should be standard procedure that every church or religious organisation MUST have a bank account . Tithes then MUSt be paid into the accounts via bank transfers ATM using cash or credit card and also cheques . NO cash money to be collected so that there is paper flow and transparency!
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Originally posted by alize:
Look at this idiot. Not only does he want to donate to defend Kong Hee, he thinks that everyone's donations for charity can be anyhow used to defend.
Uhh.... sue CAD?
Dang, that's some strong stuff he's smoking.
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are these people bai chi?