City Harvest church founder Kong Hee and 4 others arrested
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Originally posted by alize:
Many of them are already doing it
Supporters shield Kong Hee and argue with media outside courts
http://www.asiaone.com/News/Latest%2BNews/Singapore/Story/A1Story20120627-355804.html
Why can't they get the riot police and shoot them with water cannon? Hope the water can clear their clouded minds.
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Originally posted by Bay:
COC needs to have mega-Churches be more transparent. They need to open up their AGM to all church members who thithe on a monthly basis instead of limiting to Yes Man of their selection. They need to list out to the congregation on where and how much they make donations to and not keep this as a secret known only to the top inner circle. The senior pastor who is the spiritual leader must remain accountable even if he is not on salary to the church.COC must use the congregation as their watchdog and whistleblower.
NCCS should stop ppl from anyhow start a church. This is how cults are started. Anyhow start a group, with the claimed objective of expanding the religion, reaching out to others. later on, dunno how they teach or what they teach. then they become cults lor.
Look at how mormons and JW were formed.
If anybody wants to do more outreach, or serve God, or preach, he can do it in the existing church. Why need to form a new organisation, instead of serving existing established ones? To make oneself the head of church and have followers?
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Originally posted by dragg:
NCCS hopes Singaporeans will not react against churches
SINGAPORE: The Christian community is united in disapproving any misuse of public institutional funds, the National Council of Churches Singapore (NCCS) said, in response to the case involving five City Harvest Church members.
This includes money raised by or given to churches, NCCS president Lutheran Bishop Terry Kee said.
He added that dishonesty in financial matters is clearly contrary to the teaching of the church.
However, he noted that as the matter is before the courts, it was important to avoid speculation or pre-judgement, and that the legal process should be allowed to take its course.
The bishop said the council appreciates the clarification by Deputy Prime Minister and Home Affairs Minister Teo Chee Hean that the charges are filed against the five individuals and not City Harvest Church itself.
Bishop Kee also hoped that Singaporeans would not react against the church or churches in Singapore.
- CNA/wm
NCCS should remove CHC from their list.
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Originally posted by speakoutfor:
I am in the buddhism ministry to proseltyle to ex-christians (excluding Wimsomnea) to come back to buddhism.
Here is another story.
A broken down 22 year old woman walk in to our charity branch (in the nation that is north of singapore) to confess about her problems. She told us that she was a member of this sprawling big mega church in PJ. She had a boyfriend who work full time at the church. She told us she was very immature and she had many arguments and disagreements with her boyfriend. However one day she got pregnant by her boyfriend and her stomach was growing bigger.
She joined the church when she was in her teens so her whole life was that church. She was an orphan but she managed to fend for herself working odd jobs like waitering, cashier and sales person at the shopping mall. She dropped out of school when she was 15. According to her, she was very popular at the church. Because of her jovial character and her broken background, the church members accept her and treat her well.
However, moment they spot her growing bump, they began to keep a distance from her. They tried to do marriage counselling for her and her boyfriend but it didn't turn out well because they both argued a lot and didn't get along. At the same time they also gave counselling and displinary action against the boyfriend because he broke the christian rules, having sex before marriage (as the boyfriend was also a full time staff). The boyfriend was very angry. Then as this girl was approaching her 7 month pregnancy, the church decided for her !
Decided for her ! That is so arrogant of them. How can they do this? It is her decision not theirs.
Because the marriage counselling failed, they decided to sack the boyfriend. They advice the girl to give her baby for adoption ! All her friends at church avoided her and made her felt lonely. For a 22 year old pregnant girl to feel abandoned by the people who should love her, is very bad ordeal. So we at the buddhist charity org, decided to call her up and give her shelter because she could not afford a home. But she opted for a christian shelter for abused women instead.
Then she gave birth for the baby, the church decided to pay for her hospitalization expenses. We came to the hospital too to give her support. We saw the beautiful baby and she was holding on the baby, crying, because she knew that she will never see her baby again. Then the nurse came and collected the baby to be given to the new adoptive parents.
Three years later, we decided to follow up and call her up to see how she was. Alas, she was still a christians (why these christians so stubborn as hell? come back to buddhism lah). As we found out, she married a christian guy who was willing to accept her flaws. But she quit this mega church and went to a smaller more conservative church (of which her husband is attending). Another two years later, she gave birth to two wonderful boys.
So see? What right does a church got to force her to give her baby away? Had she kept the baby, she would have found a better husband who is willing to provide.
do not mistake the people who use religions for their own gains for the message...
just like Buddhism, the message in the Bible is good.. people will pervert it by lifting bits and pieces for their own selfish gains...
we have a huge huge HUGE example in the CHC here... and a horrific example of Buddhism perverted to horrific results in the Aum sect in Japan....
go to the source.. and you'll find goodness is the root of these religions... it is always the greed and hubris of those who look to these good and gentle teachings and pervert them for their own agenda that shit happens...
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Originally posted by dragg:
CHC member writes to MCYS alleging defamation
SINGAPORE: A City Harvest Church member, Christopher Pang, has written to Acting Minister for Community Development, Youth & Sports Chan Chun Sing alleging that the Commissioner of Charities’ statement on the misconduct and mismanagement in the administration of the charity is defamatory.
The Commissioner of Charities issued a statement on Tuesday saying that its inquiry discovered financial irregularities of at least S$23 million from the Charity’s funds, and that these funds were used with the purported intention to finance Sun Ho’s secular music career to connect with people.
Among other things, Mr Pang said he disagreed with the Commissioner of Charities’ statement being posted on MCYS’ website.
Speaking up for the five leaders who were charged in court on Wednesday, Mr Pang claimed that the statement is defamatory, and asked for an apology from the Commissioner of Charities.
He asserted that as a society, the church does not owe members of the public any account of how its funds are used, yet audited accounts are posted on the church’s website for transparency and accountability.
He added that he was not supportive of the move by the Commissioner of Charities to suspend eight church leaders from their offices.
- CNA/wm
I wonder if Christopher Pang has a mother.
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Kan.
I hear him talk about someone who downgraded from 5 room to 3 room to give 20k.. i dont know want to laugh at the person or pity that person.
and who are all these idiots who are protecting Con hee man? What's so good about that man? My god. Deluded fools.
Went to CHC before and the sermons machaim clubbing session
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Originally posted by the Bear:
do not mistake the people who use religions for their own gains for the message...
just like Buddhism, the message in the Bible is good.. people will pervert it by lifting bits and pieces for their own selfish gains...
we have a huge huge HUGE example in the CHC here... and a horrific example of Buddhism perverted to horrific results in the Aum sect in Japan....
go to the source.. and you'll find goodness is the root of these religions... it is always the greed and hubris of those who look to these good and gentle teachings and pervert them for their own agenda that shit happens...
that's right. Religions are good but some ppl are evil. Even Osama's religion teaches good things but he and his gang weren't nice.
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Originally posted by motoway:
Kan.
I hear him talk about someone who downgraded from 5 room to 3 room to give 20k.. i dont know want to laugh at the person or pity that person.
and who are all these idiots who are protecting Con hee man? What's so good about that man? My god. Deluded fools.
Went to CHC before and the sermons machaim clubbing session
watched that youtube before and really made me mad.
Why didn't Kong Hee downgrade his sentosa cove home and his wife's hollywood home for the church building fund? Why the members have to downgrade and live a poor life? Selfish! and the members see nothing wrong with that? OMG!
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I think the memeber's common sense disappeared.
I mean.. normal people should & WOULD think logically right...
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they are no longer normal.
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Were they ever normal?
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Even though I attended City Harvest only once, it felt somehow wrong to me. I think the whole problem is the followers are not seeking God but Kong Hee. They are treating him like some saviour and that is very dangerous. It does not help that the church seems to target impressionable male teenagers by luring them in with xiao mei mei. Coupled with their jamming worship session it makes it not different from a pub where guys go to pick up girls or girls go to be picked up.
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in fact all charismatic churches felt wrong to me. Went once and they give u the look when i apprarently refused to "tithe" and i went to take a look as a non christians. The things there. just seems totally wrong.
a city harvest friend once told me "it is superficial to look into the philosophies of life" i wonder, what has city harvest been teaching their ppl? maybe is to just give and give?
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Originally posted by the Bear:
do not mistake the people who use religions for their own gains for the message...
just like Buddhism, the message in the Bible is good.. people will pervert it by lifting bits and pieces for their own selfish gains...
we have a huge huge HUGE example in the CHC here... and a horrific example of Buddhism perverted to horrific results in the Aum sect in Japan....
go to the source.. and you'll find goodness is the root of these religions... it is always the greed and hubris of those who look to these good and gentle teachings and pervert them for their own agenda that shit happens...
How to find goodness? I counsel so many ex-christians and all of them tell me that they initially taught christianity was something enlightening for them, would bring them out of their lull but eventually they were disapponted by they way they were treated by the politics of the church.
Yes there are a lot of politics in the church. But I do not find anything like this at all in buddhism because we all work for the good of all.
Aum Shinrikyo has little to do with buddhism, in fact its founder Shoko Asahara, took the roots of christianity, yoga, hinduism to build on his cult.
You see, all wars are started by the muslims and christians. George Bush who claims to be a devout christian and supports Billy Graham, went on to wage a fake and bloody war on Iraq on the lies that Iraq was developing WMD.
I even counsel one friend, who used to have a christian girlfriend. They went out for 3 years until one day, she was attracted by teh idea of converting to christianity. She insisted her boyfriend to follow her to church, he relented. She began to quit drinking, to become so so holy, hate swearing, don't like to gossip, spend her money for church work, no time for boyfriend because go and do ministry, etc. But the boyfriend still go for clubbing. Though he attend church but he decided to be a lukewarm christian. Then they both join cell group. The leaders forced them both to go for water baptism and classes. But the boyfriend refused. She went. And then the day when he really felt left out was the on that very sunday service when she went out on stage to profess her commitment to christ to a congregation of 2000. Arguments started to ensue. The boyfriend spent so much money to buy a house and fund her part time studies because he was thinking of marrying her. But she wanted him to become christian and go thru marriage counselling together. The boyfriend read the rules from the marriage counselling course, he has to tithe 10%, only marry a christian. He was outraged. Their relationship got worst, started arguing, mainly over religion.
Before she became christian, everything was ok, they even spoke of starting family. Moment she got converted, she completely changed, wanted the boyfriend to change as well. Wah, like Jonestown, completely brainwashed.
Then she decided to break up with him. He was so heartbroken. On the day after they broke up, he wanted to go to the cell group to meet up with her and try to persuade her to come back. But the cell group leader refused to open the gate to let him in. He wanted to speak to her. But it was the cell group leader who came out to speak to him instead, advised him to let her go.
he tried to contact her, but her handphone blocked his calls. Her parents refused to open the door for him. He was really heartbroken. We buddhist had to counsel him and now he became a devout buddhist, decided to be a vegetarian.
Few years later, we found out the truth. the girl fell in love with one of the church leaders, a junior pastor and married him.
Hah, see? Churches reserve all the girls for their leaders. And they kick out the poor guys like this guy, my charity branch had to counsel him.
So cruel. Churches all like Kong Hee.
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Originally posted by Honeybunz:
that's right. Religions are good but some ppl are evil. Even Osama's religion teaches good things but he and his gang weren't nice.
What is the point? The church is only the building. But when the leadership is corrupt, the evil sheppard with a goat horns is leading blind and stupid sheep.So that makes the whole church corrupt. Like Jonestown.
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Originally posted by Fcukpap:
thats why the saying....u can do a thousand good things..but dun ever make one mistake..
Making mistakes? honest or dishonest mistakes?-falsifying accounts is an intentional act not a mistake! -
Originally posted by speakoutfor:
How to find goodness? I counsel so many ex-christians and all of them tell me that they initially taught christianity was something enlightening for them, would bring them out of their lull but eventually they were disapponted by they way they were treated by the politics of the church.
Yes there are a lot of politics in the church. But I do not find anything like this at all in buddhism because we all work for the good of all.
Aum Shinrikyo has little to do with buddhism, in fact its founder Shoko Asahara, took the roots of christianity, yoga, hinduism to build on his cult.
You see, all wars are started by the muslims and christians. George Bush who claims to be a devout christian and supports Billy Graham, went on to wage a fake and bloody war on Iraq on the lies that Iraq was developing WMD.
I even counsel one friend, who used to have a christian girlfriend. They went out for 3 years until one day, she was attracted by teh idea of converting to christianity. She insisted her boyfriend to follow her to church, he relented. She began to quit drinking, to become so so holy, hate swearing, don't like to gossip, spend her money for church work, no time for boyfriend because go and do ministry, etc. But the boyfriend still go for clubbing. Though he attend church but he decided to be a lukewarm christian. Then they both join cell group. The leaders forced them both to go for water baptism and classes. But the boyfriend refused. She went. And then the day when he really felt left out was the on that very sunday service when she went out on stage to profess her commitment to christ to a congregation of 2000. Arguments started to ensue. The boyfriend spent so much money to buy a house and fund her part time studies because he was thinking of marrying her. But she wanted him to become christian and go thru marriage counselling together. The boyfriend read the rules from the marriage counselling course, he has to tithe 10%, only marry a christian. He was outraged. Their relationship got worst, started arguing, mainly over religion.
Before she became christian, everything was ok, they even spoke of starting family. Moment she got converted, she completely changed, wanted the boyfriend to change as well. Wah, like Jonestown, completely brainwashed.
Then she decided to break up with him. He was so heartbroken. On the day after they broke up, he wanted to go to the cell group to meet up with her and try to persuade her to come back. But the cell group leader refused to open the gate to let him in. He wanted to speak to her. But it was the cell group leader who came out to speak to him instead, advised him to let her go.
he tried to contact her, but her handphone blocked his calls. Her parents refused to open the door for him. He was really heartbroken. We buddhist had to counsel him and now he became a devout buddhist, decided to be a vegetarian.
Few years later, we found out the truth. the girl fell in love with one of the church leaders, a junior pastor and married him.
Hah, see? Churches reserve all the girls for their leaders. And they kick out the poor guys like this guy, my charity branch had to counsel him.
So cruel. Churches all like Kong Hee.
There are always black sheeps here and there.
The root of all religions are good. It's human beings who manipulate the teachings for their own benefits
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Originally posted by speakoutfor:
What is the point? The church is only the building. But when the leadership is corrupt, the evil sheppard with a goat horns is leading blind and stupid sheep.So that makes the whole church corrupt. Like Jonestown.
indeed indeed ! as the Minster said the charge is on the individuals not on the building mah! The building got value you know! can also be converted as dormatories for foreign workers or a shopping centre cum food court .... -
for the sake of mankind, this entire church must be liquidated.
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Originally posted by motoway:
There are always black sheeps here and there.
The root of all religions are good. It's human beings who manipulate the teachings for their own benefits
Yeah, but most people hate christians. Why? Because they claim to be the true and happy people. But I hear so many stories of politics at church, christians trampling over other downtrodden christians. That is why so many people are disillusioned.I have counsel so many youths who blindly join their youth ministry, then those who are no handsome looking guys, nerdy looking girls or guys who have disabilities, are mistreated - marginalised during their activities. Its a disgraceful treatment. Only those who are children of pastors, handsome guys, pretty girls, influential children or children with rich parents are treated better.
At our buddhist counselling center, we try to bring back these disenchanted christians and show the path to nirvana is the right way.
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Originally posted by Bikeforceful:
indeed indeed ! as the Minster said the charge is on the individuals not on the building mah! The building got value you know! can also be converted as dormatories for foreign workers or a shopping centre cum food court ....
This is why buddhism is far better. We focus on individual enlightenment and not take advantage of former drug addicts, bully victims, prostitutes, handicap people and lie to them that they found enlightenment. -
Originally posted by Dalforce 1941:
for the sake of mankind, this entire church must be liquidated.
Agree! liquidate the church and turn the building into an elders care home for the very poorest in society who are now living in JB old age home because they can't afford to stay in nursing homes in Singapura ...our island paradise! -
dun OT.
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Latest news is that the misused funds were $50.6 million, not $23 million as last reported.