Aug 07 COG Fiasco: Aftermath
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The end of the month is coming up. Anyone know the date of the next Istana COG?
Thinking about driving down there, & bringing my video camera along. Just in case.
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shld be first sunday i guess...... think we can expect a crowd there.......
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farking pissed ... alot new things just officially implemented .. n i m 1st few 2 be slaughtered ..
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Care to elaborate?Originally posted by Saint`:farking pissed ... alot new things just officially implemented .. n i m 1st few 2 be slaughtered .. -
I think its best not to elaborate on it or release any details.Originally posted by Saint`:farking pissed ... alot new things just officially implemented .. n i m 1st few 2 be slaughtered ..
Some things are still best kept within the army and within its walls(fences in this case)
People might argue then why are things shoved under rugs again when someone is about to say something, but remember, its SAF is a military oranisation and its called so for a reason, and need not be as transparent as some people might want it to be afterall. -
what a disaster
what to do, regulars cannot make it
they didn't get whacked like we do in the past -
With regards to your first paragraph, they are actually entasked with doing that. Military Police does what a normal civilian Policeman would do in the streets, just that MPs only touch Military personnel, Policemen interfere with civilians. If it happens that those civilians caught are NSF or regulars, they are in turn sent to the Provost to be taken care of.Originally posted by will4:I reaaly cannot understand MP is to do law enforcement. Why the need to do precision drill n the drill squad should be abolished.
MP should be deployed undercover to track abusive officer or sergeant.
As for your second paragraph, refer to my previous post about divulging sensitive military information. Maybe you could google it or somehow, but its not going to come from me. -
Well lets not generalise shall we?Originally posted by Kenashi:what a disaster
what to do, regulars cannot make it
they didn't get whacked like we do in the past
I would say some of them do really know their stuff, and also are cream of their crops in their respective careers and working arenas.
And i wonder what do you mean by getting whacked.
Edit: About whacking, I do hope you dont mean in the context of SPDS. -
Granted that OPSEC is paramount.
There is a fine line drawn between actual OPSEC and any potential abuse of this to cover up issues that are in the national interest.
One good example was the commando dunking incident. -
I would agree with you.Originally posted by alslee:Well lets not generalise shall we?
I would say some of them do really know their stuff, and also are cream of their crops in their respective careers and working arenas.
And i wonder what do you mean by getting whacked.
Edit: About whacking, I do hope you dont mean in the context of SPDS.
There has been too much generalisation these days.. -
this is about COG, of course it meant whacked during SPDS training.Originally posted by alslee:Well lets not generalise shall we?
I would say some of them do really know their stuff, and also are cream of their crops in their respective careers and working arenas.
And i wonder what do you mean by getting whacked.
Edit: About whacking, I do hope you dont mean in the context of SPDS.
it used to be hell training in my time.
nowaday, i can't bear to watch when i go reservist -
yea this is the part that i m afraid . might breach the m.law here =.= . precisely wise i m jus putting things very vaguely . wait i ord then i come back kp lol .. but cham the culture is now machiam we SIR .. heard staying in might going to be inplemented . Leave , off have to clear on Fark up days .. alot moreOriginally posted by alslee:I think its best not to elaborate on it or release any details.
Some things are still best kept within the army and within its walls(fences in this case)
People might argue then why are things shoved under rugs again when someone is about to say something, but remember, its SAF is a military oranisation and its called so for a reason, and need not be as transparent as some people might want it to be afterall. -
the old CO was better, he takes care of SPDS...
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cos it was used for many events and it brought him gloryOriginally posted by melmoth:the old CO was better, he takes care of SPDS...
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Remember the case of US Veteran hospital Walter Reed. The new US Defence Secretary Gate "Fire" the General. after failing to response appropriately to the public outcry. But Of course that is in uncle sam.
And of course if the institution have enough pride and self respect. They will do take the right decision. -
Originally posted by alslee:
hey dude...what we are asking for is not i repeat in caps. NOT transparency is this word which we have been hearing pretty often for the past few years "ACCOUNTABILITY" MPC must be ACCOUNTABLE and JUSTIFY for the screw-up. If they wish to sweep something like that under the carpet, with so many public and tourists' eyes...they must be outta their mind. Till date...they have not issued a statement to ACCOUNT for why such a screw-up happen. Its not that we want MPC to admit and confess its their fault for the poor performance during the COG. But rather to be ACCOUNTABLE and MOVE ON, taking the episode as a learning lesson.
People might argue then why are things shoved under rugs again when someone is about to say something, but remember, its SAF is a military oranisation and its called so for a reason, and need not be as transparent as some people might want it to be afterall.
I say they should have someone record such events so that the next batch of juniors can watch and understand the rationale of why the seniors/instructors are pushing them that hard. As SAF progresses to be a 3G Army, we should not be using the 1.5G or 2G approach of "I order, u do" but "I explain, u understand, we do" to go further. [/b] -
wow nice one.
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Originally posted by SpecOps87:
Ahh but everyone who has served would know....NSF do regulars work and take the regular shit.
hey dude...what we are asking for is not i repeat in caps. NOT transparency is this word which we have been hearing pretty often for the past few years "ACCOUNTABILITY" MPC must be ACCOUNTABLE and JUSTIFY for the screw-up. If they wish to sweep something like that under the carpet, with so many public and tourists' eyes...they must be outta their mind. Till date...they have not issued a statement to ACCOUNT for why such a screw-up happen. Its not that we want MPC to admit and confess its their fault for the poor performance during the COG. But rather to be ACCOUNTABLE and MOVE ON, taking the episode as a learning lesson.
I say they should have someone record such events so that the next batch of juniors can watch and understand the rationale of why the seniors/instructors are pushing them that hard. As SAF progresses to be a 3G Army, we should not be using the 1.5G or 2G approach of "I order, u do" but "I explain, u understand, we do" to go further. [/b]
They arrow u to do their job u just do if not u get in trouble.You screw up they point fingers at you and u get screwed.l Usually no one will question them with a "why is that NSF doing YOUR WORK?"
And it's because of this that alot of things get swept under the carpet because if the public were to find out how often things like these happen well it's not going to be very pretty.
I can say it's not that the army doesnt have things in place to prevent these it's just that no one implements it. This accountability really is quite non existant in the SAF.People's careers are on the line and they really would rather push it to those who's careers arent....NSF.
Seriously with scholars and those who dont want their iron rice bowls broken the NSF is the easiest person to shove the blame to because they will be gone in 2 years and there's no record of shit like this happening especially if all the NSF get's is some extras and confinements or punishments that arent recorded as a charge and hence no need for investigation.
All this might also be the reason why a certain 2LT wrote an email to mindef and CDF and all that hah. -
When LHY wrote that email, part of me had a hard time trying to disagree with what he was doing.
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yea well things arent likely to change until the mentality of pushing the blame to NSF's becuz they are serving 2 years only is stopped.Originally posted by LazerLordz:When LHY wrote that email, part of me had a hard time trying to disagree with what he was doing.
I mean scholars do that because they dun wanna lose their scholarship and even the government wont wanna lose them.While other regulars do it because they wanna keep their jobs.
Or unless something big happens like a CPL or PTE loosing some secret document that he wasnt even suppose to know exists and a civilian finding it and reporting it haha.
oh well i guess this is a bane of conscript armies. -
Well...it still boils down to the golden word "ACCOUNTABILITY" and yes...sad case that NSFs always get the short-end of the stick. Come to tink of it...of late alot of the dark side of SAF is being showcased eh? On top of that, lets face it...not only SAF have such issues, companies also have "lifers" shooting temps and interns because they come and go. Gotta make people take responsibility...but that's a difficult part to implement
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If I the NSF MP n kena punishment, I will go tell my mother to talk to CO SAFMP to reason out the thing.Originally posted by NuShii:The recent Aug 07 COG video was taken down by force after a series of attempted threats to charge the uploader was rumoured. Apparently the performers who were involved in this unglamorous event were punished, even senior squad members were dragged into this fiasco, however the root of cause has not been addressed: the chief instructor who is supposedly a 1st SGT. Now that all visual evidence has been chucked under the rug, it is impossible to describe how badly that instructor had falter in his drills, as a matter of fact the other performers did better than him. Why is it that he was let off scot-free whilst the NSFs had to bear his crime? As a concerned civillian I have every right to know what is going in the upper management of the MPC, and why they are pushing the blame of this one performance-gone-wrong to the NSFs? Have they taken into account the glory of past performances? It tears me to know that the NSFs are being made scapegoats just so the blames can be accounted for.
No doubt this thread might cause more sufferings to the NSFs who are now currently serving their punishments, but just to let whoever is reading know that I am not an NSF so don't bother questioning them. -
Its always been happening. Its the revolution of internet and all this tech stuff around here nowadays that are so easily available under our fingertips that makes it so easy for people to voice out their concerns.Originally posted by SpecOps87:Well...it still boils down to the golden word "ACCOUNTABILITY" and yes...sad case that NSFs always get the short-end of the stick. Come to tink of it...of late alot of the dark side of SAF is being showcased eh? On top of that, lets face it...not only SAF have such issues, companies also have "lifers" shooting temps and interns because they come and go. Gotta make people take responsibility...but that's a difficult part to implement
All these stuff have already been happening for god knows how many decades. Its just that its always in black and white and also in the form of heresay and rumours etc, or mouth-to-mouth. Now we just on the laptop anywhere on the street and tada, wireless@sg connected, people go forum and start complaining etc. And i am referring to not only military, but also any companies, MNCs or agencies related to govt or not. Its just omni-present and accountability, oh well, its either you or me, and i rather you die and i live. -
If your mother is "garang" enough. Haha.Originally posted by will4:If I the NSF MP n kena punishment, I will go tell my mother to talk to CO SAFMP to reason out the thing.
But you wont allow her in the first place.
What goes around comes around, retribution.
Civilian > Military, but think:
Your mum shoot CO, CO shoot OC, OC shoot PC, PC shoot PS, PS shoot you
equals you're still dead.
Period.
"Low-lifes" just gets pwned thats all, reality i guess. -
Paradigms have to shift before real accountability and role-management is practised throughout any organisation.Originally posted by alslee:Its always been happening. Its the revolution of internet and all this tech stuff around here nowadays that are so easily available under our fingertips that makes it so easy for people to voice out their concerns.
All these stuff have already been happening for god knows how many decades. Its just that its always in black and white and also in the form of heresay and rumours etc, or mouth-to-mouth. Now we just on the laptop anywhere on the street and tada, wireless@sg connected, people go forum and start complaining etc. And i am referring to not only military, but also any companies, MNCs or agencies related to govt or not. Its just omni-present and accountability, oh well, its either you or me, and i rather you die and i live.
Even LO concepts have it hard in transformation, and I've seen it from it's birth.
We had a challenging time trying to inculcate Knowledge Management in trainers, KAH since 2003..