Aug 07 COG Fiasco: Aftermath
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Btw, does the SAF send a contingent to the Endinburgh Royal Tatoo?
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The SAF has never participated in the Edinburgh Military Tattoo.
However, next year the Singapore Police Force will be sending a contingent. -
one question i gotta ask..
don't SAF usually DO NOT conduct COG during Jul & Aug months? -
well, yes, traditionally, SPDS do not do COG for AUG and JUKY tt's coz these are their busy months SAF day in july and NDP in AUG, so the COGs are uasually waived off..... UNLESS the squad members feel a supreme sense of confidence abt their personal skills and request to do it,OR, (most likely) someone up there wants to wayang and show that his men are always prepared and hence is ready to put up a show....
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Hi spdsboiboi which batch u from?
from the new camp or from previous ulu pandan camp? -
i believe there will be lots of stress for the next batch of SPDS soldiers performing next month. no doubt the expectation will be high seeing how the badly this month's batch had performed.Originally posted by LazerLordz:In any case, I'm probably quite curious enough to attend the next COG..
i wish the lads all the best. practise hard, rest well and put up a good show.
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Ok from what Saint has said, I conclude that the recent internal shuffle in MPC has lowered efficiency, although the original motive was to shrink MPC such that manpower issue will be resolved right? Assuming what Saint said be true, then this move, instead of resolving, has amplified the manpower issue. I wonder if calling the SAF hotline would relief overworked soldiers
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Well...isn't this a form of whistle blowing? Blow whistle for them to wake up their farking idea.
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they should srsly just disband SPDS la, no point already, cant even accomplish simple tasks.... if they wanna compromise the quality of the performers with the excuse of Manpower issue, then there is no point for SPDS to exist, SPDS was listed as one of the elite units in SAF alongside the commandos and naval divers.... what a shame...
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Anyone try upload the video again?
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imo,Originally posted by minimalis:Perhaps, but I guess in that situation, with so many people watching them, they didn't have a contingency that would work. Or they didn't have a contingency, at all.
This group of guys are preparing for 2 shows concurrently, the COG and the other's the KL International Tattoo next month. Put oneself in that position, new birds, 2 big shows with different steps, timing and movements. That's quite a lot to swallow.
1.if cannot manage local show how to do overseas shows?
2.Or dun tell me u all put all effort in overseas shows and compromised standard for local show outside the istana?
3.Or going to screw up in KL like in August COG?
4.As mentioned, both are big shows, why still can screw up?
If got 2 performance concurrently, use the same formation and sequence of drills if possible to lessen the job load. This is common sense. Dun tell me the CI in-charge never tot of this?
Unless u tell me ur performance is 1hour long? One performance around 5-15mins normally. How many variations can u have?
Cannot handle how to be a squad member?
Please go and read my previous post on previous thread on suggestions to improve memory and skills. -
Hi spdsboiboi which batch u from?
from new camp, I'm not that old lawl
from the new camp or from previous ulu pandan camp?
Is there anyway to let the new CO of MPC know that his reshuffling strategy has failed terribly and that his men are at extremely low morale? L2Lead imo, I don't pay tax to feed a bunch of tards who're gonna order my son around next time -
Why dun the SAF just disband this unit? Completely pointless as far as I can tell.
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Ok, my friends has linked me to this site, and i am seriously distraught at how things have turned out for something which i have good memories about.
I am from a batch that ORDed a few years back but with this company, its just so sad to say that standards are not of what we would have like to see.
But i cant help but offer you answers some things that you guys are debating about before i turn in for the night.
1) Standards were much higher as i said before and you guys discussed too about it in the other locked thread. Overseas performances were considered before during my time in there, but it never really happened. Admin stuff, alot of red tape, plainly put, $ problems. Drill standards at that time were definitely good enough for overseas performances, its only that we decided to concentrate on local mounting of performances. But also, since we inherit main drill skills from Taiwan, and also adapt and change and invent new drills, its not good to "ban1 men2 nong4 fu3" in front of more professional foreign drill squads. Not that we are incapable, its to avoid the "publicity" that would be generated due to comparison.Originally posted by Shibaa:imo,
1.if cannot manage local show how to do overseas shows?
2.Or dun tell me u all put all effort in overseas shows and compromised standard for local show outside the istana?
3.Or going to screw up in KL like in August COG?
4.As mentioned, both are big shows, why still can screw up?
If got 2 performance concurrently, use the same formation and sequence of drills if possible to lessen the job load. This is common sense. Dun tell me the CI in-charge never tot of this?
Unless u tell me ur performance is 1hour long? One performance around 5-15mins normally. How many variations can u have?
Cannot handle how to be a squad member?
Please go and read my previous post on previous thread on suggestions to improve memory and skills.
2)Refer to 1), since i never encountered overseas performances, but in addition, the best performance is always saved for the home crowd. Who best to cheer for your performance than your friends family and buddies when you do a good job?
3)I would say this would be an extreme rare exception to the long history of SPDS. I would also would like to believe this August COG dint even happened.
4)I have to say there are a million and 1 reasons how such performances can screw up. Its through years of experimenting with minor tweaks and adjustments that we try to formulate a near perfect fool-proof procedure to ensure everything goes well in preparation for COG every month. Details are not required but even so, it doesnt take a genius to tell you that when something cocks up, everyone points at the fault, but if everything goes well, its business as usual next month again.
Shibaa, i wont want to flame you but, i would want to let you know that formations and stuff arent the usual things that you would think to be so easy. And for your info, formations are always ever-changing, and its pretty hard to explain things just on forums to outsiders. (Apologies if offended).
Dont you think that we would gladly want a same formation to use for 20+ years? Its common sense yeah, but viewers would think otherwise.
As for number of variations, its more than you can ever think of. I would say its seriously more than what people think there are.
Squad Members are normally chosen on a very rigid basis, but looking at how the "old company" before the revamp is now changed into a bare-boned one, i would say there is more than meets the eye behind the scenes.
But please refrain from attacking these chaps, even as seniors or as "lao jiaos", reprimand them yes for the poor performances, but look ahead and hope they learn from their mistakes.
I hope this is sufficient information to you, shibaa, and others on this forum about a little of whats happening. -
If there are no orders, its not an army anymore, and may i know what gives you the right to determine whether those ordering your son might be tards? I would assume you are just very angry now, after reading your recent posts.Originally posted by spdsboiboi86:from new camp, I'm not that old lawl
Is there anyway to let the new CO of MPC know that his reshuffling strategy has failed terribly and that his men are at extremely low morale? L2Lead imo, I don't pay tax to feed a bunch of tards who're gonna order my son around next time -
Maybe i should take your siggy seriously and ignore what you said.Originally posted by lwflee:Why dun the SAF just disband this unit? Completely pointless as far as I can tell.
But anyway, I hope you get a bigger picture of what you are looking at before making a judgement. Apparently you wont disband any unit just because they have a few deaths due to acidents in their units right? I would assume the same goes for the drill squad who just have a very very bad day with a performance.
On a side note: you must have hated MPC alot, or they did you any injustice during your NS days maybe?(Just an opinion) -
Anyway before i turn in, as melmoth posted:
I would agree the current squad is not of an elite type, yet i wont want to see one performance destroy what many people has built it up into.Originally posted by melmoth:they should srsly just disband SPDS la, no point already, cant even accomplish simple tasks.... if they wanna compromise the quality of the performers with the excuse of Manpower issue, then there is no point for SPDS to exist, SPDS was listed as one of the elite units in SAF alongside the commandos and naval divers.... what a shame...
The unity between the squad, the friendship, the ability to band together in times of hardship and survive through turmoils is in fact comparable to that of what Red Berets and NDU go through, only that its of a different platform and aspect. The competitiveness seen during my time to mount the drill squad is something that you would only expect when people strive to achieve the best soldier of the year award.(Just an example)
However during my time, manpower was also an issue, but my friends and I endured through everything together. And i believe it is quite comparable when what used to be 2-3 platoons is only continued by only me and my buddies, a total of around 1 1/2 sections. Its how the people that unite together right under the SPDS banner that you would actually only realise how determined and strong a squad can be when doing things, even accomplishing the impossible. I really believe something else like a major overhaul of the tried and tested system for the squad choosing and training system is the main cause for this subpar performance. And inside knowledge is that, that is what happened.
Therefore, i wish, and hope the present squad would buck up, and do justice to the name of SPDS, and to the detractors out there, may you see SPDS in a different light once Sept COG comes. -
The reason I said they ought to be disbanded is because objectively speaking, the unit is pointless beyond serving a minor PR function.Originally posted by alslee:Maybe i should take your siggy seriously and ignore what you said.
But anyway, I hope you get a bigger picture of what you are looking at before making a judgement. Apparently you wont disband any unit just because they have a few deaths due to acidents in their units right? I would assume the same goes for the drill squad who just have a very very bad day with a performance.
On a side note: you must have hated MPC alot, or they did you any injustice during your NS days maybe?(Just an opinion)
Of course, I wasn't basing my opinion on a single mistake - dun be silly. -
If there are no orders, its not an army anymore, and may i know what gives you the right to determine whether those ordering your son might be tards? I would assume you are just very angry now, after reading your recent posts.
Yes I'm very angry at the moment, at how inefficient yet nonchalant the handful of regulars at MPC are. They're destroying a symbolic squad, bringing shame to it by simply bochup-ing the repercussions of their senseless reshuffling -
Well, i am not too sure whether if you are part of MPC before or whether you are a very concerned civilian, but most people dont know what they really do. Its all mainly classified and confidential as most military stuff are, but then, the only types of people that you should ever see are the drill squad and the law enforcement type, and in the past, they are different groups of people doing their own jobs.Originally posted by lwflee:The reason I said they ought to be disbanded is because objectively speaking, the unit is pointless beyond serving a minor PR function.
Of course, I wasn't basing my opinion on a single mistake - dun be silly.
Apparently, only 1 group is doing both jobs simulatneously now and SPDS is suffering because of that, creating a fiasco. And as always seen in the past, SPDS is always the frontier that hardly gets priased and always gets shot down easily by the public.
Indeed, i would be silly to waste time on these posts, but it however concerns and agitates people around me, who have the same strong sentiments and feelings about misconceptions being posted in this post. -
I applaud your valiant attempt at pointing out what i suppose is the very main cause and reason, but please do not bring down the squad withOriginally posted by spdsboiboi86:Yes I'm very angry at the moment, at how inefficient yet nonchalant the handful of regulars at MPC are. They're destroying a symbolic squad, bringing shame to it by simply bochup-ing the repercussions of their senseless reshuffling
them, as there are also regulars who perform in the squad before too and work with the squad hand in hand, and brought it to greater heights than ever before. Yes, apart from some black sheeps, which every organisations will somehow have at some time, but probably lets maybe give them some time to sort out the issues that they are probably having now.
Anyway a top-down issue has always been a hotly debated problem that has never been resolved. It has always beem there and will never disappear overnight, even with things concerning the squad. -
wow u pretty much summed up wat i've posted in these 2 threads in a better way than i hav.... same thoughts, same thoughs... exactly. too many strong feelings and misconceptions in this threadOriginally posted by alslee:I would say this would be an extreme rare exception to the long history of SPDS.
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But please refrain from attacking these chaps, even as seniors or as "lao jiaos", reprimand them yes for the poor performances, but look ahead and hope they learn from their mistakes.
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Indeed, i would be silly to waste time on these posts, but it however concerns and agitates people around me, who have the same strong sentiments and feelings about misconceptions being posted in this post.
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Apparently, only 1 group is doing both jobs simultaneously now and SPDS is suffering because of that, creating a fiasco. And as always seen in the past, SPDS is always the frontier that hardly gets praised and always gets shot down easily by the public.
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Indeed, i would be silly to waste time on these posts, but it however concerns and agitates people around me, who have the same strong sentiments and feelings about misconceptions being posted in this post. u seem to be the only one understand wat i've said so far... 
everyone else like think im one of those performers giving excuses for a bad performance 
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I applaud your valiant attempt at pointing out what i suppose is the very main cause and reason, but please do not bring down the squad with
I'm not bringing down the squad with them, I've narrowed my concerns onto an incompetent chief instructor and perhaps ineffective authorities of the MPC. As I've mentioned in my previous posts, there are exemplary regulars such as my chief instructor who has brought SPDS to greater heights
them, as there are also regulars who perform in the squad before too and work with the squad hand in hand, and brought it to greater heights than ever before. Yes, apart from some black sheeps, which every organisations will somehow have at some time, but probably lets maybe give them some time to sort out the issues that they are probably having now.
if you had presented your posts in proper written english then perhaps I wouldn't have mistaken your motive as an act of contempt
wow u pretty much summed up wat i've posted in these 2 threads in a better way than i hav.... same thoughts, same thoughs... exactly. too many strong feelings and misconceptions in this thread u seem to be the only one understand wat i've said so far... everyone else like think im one of those performers giving excuses for a bad performance -
haha did u read the previous thread? I was sad that such things happen and posted some suggestion how they can improve and really hope they dun repeat mistake. Just hoping they can wake up.Originally posted by alslee:Shibaa, i wont want to flame you but, i would want to let you know that formations and stuff arent the usual things that you would think to be so easy. And for your info, formations are always ever-changing, and its pretty hard to explain things just on forums to outsiders. (Apologies if offended).
Dont you think that we would gladly want a same formation to use for 20+ years? Its common sense yeah, but viewers would think otherwise.
As for number of variations, its more than you can ever think of. I would say its seriously more than what people think there are.
Squad Members are normally chosen on a very rigid basis, but looking at how the "old company" before the revamp is now changed into a bare-boned one, i would say there is more than meets the eye behind the scenes.
But please refrain from attacking these chaps, even as seniors or as "lao jiaos", reprimand them yes for the poor performances, but look ahead and hope they learn from their mistakes.
I hope this is sufficient information to you, shibaa, and others on this forum about a little of whats happening.
I din say drawing formation on a paper with thousands of small green squares(graph paper) and using chalk/tape to mark the ground is ever easy. But just using the same drills sequence for 2 different group of audience is perfectly alrite i think, especially when the squad cannot cope. Not to the extent of using same thing for 20 years though. At least for a few months is alrite.
There can be a lot variation, it can enhance ur performance and at the same time bring it down. Its a double-edged sword, misuse it and cut urself like COG August.
The prestige of the CI putting on the Jockey Cap for an Instructor is to trust him to make sure nothing goes wrong. To be able to wear the Jockey Cap and step on the parade square is not easy and definitely very hard earned.
The Jockey Cap weighs a ton with the entrustment and reputation of the senior batches and of course the Starter of SPDS.
I just cannot accept pple finding reason for their mistake. Why dun they find reasons NOT to make the mistake in the first place? Not as if this is the first performance ever, i think is due to cos they never consult the experienced in the unit.Originally posted by minimalis:Perhaps, but I guess in that situation, with so many people watching them, they didn't have a contingency that would work. Or they didn't have a contingency, at all.
This group of guys are preparing for 2 shows concurrently, the COG and the other's the KL International Tattoo next month. Put oneself in that position, new birds, 2 big shows with different steps, timing and movements. That's quite a lot to swallow. -
I reaaly cannot understand MP is to do law enforcement. Why the need to do precision drill n the drill squad should be abolished.
MP should be deployed undercover to track abusive officer or sergeant.