Aug 07 COG Fiasco: Aftermath
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yeap, apparently i think MPC said that the video has to be removed coz pple were leaving rather caustic comments on the video page.... and that in turn threatens the reputation of MPC
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Yes the 'threaten' part was a hearsay, thus I would like to know the real intent of removing the video too. It would be great if the uploader could share some info with us, that is if he browses this forum. I got word from some friends that the performers are being punished by doubling their routine job of which nature I think I'm not supposed to reveal, but I'm curious of one thing. In the SAF, if the commanders make you do your routine job more tediously than usual, it's a good cover up for more punishment right? I mean it's not recorded that you are being punished, instead you get twice as much work to do and you can't complain about it right? You can't say that the punishment is not justified because theoretically you aren't being punished?
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IMHO, MPC can only make its opinion known about issues related to itself, but it is deplorable that it has to resort to force someone to take down the video because of what people post on Youtube's video comment page.Originally posted by melmoth:yeap, apparently i think MPC said that the video has to be removed coz pple were leaving rather caustic comments on the video page.... and that in turn threatens the reputation of MPC
I certainly don't think that MPC has a right to decide what goes up on Youtube or not, especially when it is a matter in the public view.
If I am Joe American and I happen to post the same video up on Youtube taken during my holiday in Singapore and a bunch of Singaporean NSFs post comments on the COG seen in the video, what then?
The poster is not responsible for the comments, and frankly, if something invites such negative comments, there is no smoke without fire.
Perhaps ALL the relevant parties should use their brains as well. The SAF is supposed to be a premier fighting organisation and a Learning Organisation as well. Whatever happened to the notion of Knowledge Management and AAR/Lessons Learned sessions? -
if that's the case i'm truly disappointed that MPC cannot even take criticism for their mistakes.Originally posted by melmoth:yeap, apparently i think MPC said that the video has to be removed coz pple were leaving rather caustic comments on the video page.... and that in turn threatens the reputation of MPC
come on, just because people leave negative and rude comments doesn't mean one have to force the person to take down the video. personally i have seen lots of caustic comments on many youtube videos, that's normal and unfortunately not something that can be controlled. that's why i always believe everyone must take responsibility of what we post online.
but having to force someone to take down the video is not the correct way to slove things. seriously even if MPC wrote to youtube to take down the video, i don't think youtube will even entertain them, after all this video is taken in public and is not about classified stuff. -
and wat fashion did i put on? anyway i wasnt referring to u. AND, i didnt start this racket in case u didnt read the first thread....Originally posted by NuShii:I have no idea why venny is acting in such a fashion, I don't think I've ever offended you, in fact I don't even know who you are. I definitely wasn't attempting on starting a flame or trying to be a rebel without a cause.
This is public forums, like what spdsboiboi86 has suggested to you, if you do not appreciate the contents of this thread, you are allowed to ignore it. But I think you're causing a racket and you're disturbing our sanctum for an objective discussion here.
anyway this discussion is very lopsided. without any input frm anyone in mpc or related to it, almost everything that has happened since that video went up till it went down is purely HEARSAY, aka RUMORS. no one has stepped forward to confirm anything, nor can confirm anything. whether or not any action was taken is jus as ambiguous and all guesses.
but i dont think any of them surf this forums anyway..... -
That's right.Originally posted by Gordonator:if that's the case i'm truly disappointed that MPC cannot even take criticism for their mistakes.
come on, just because people leave negative and rude comments doesn't mean one have to force the person to take down the video. personally i have seen lots of caustic comments on many youtube videos, that's normal and unfortunately not something that can be controlled. that's why i always believe everyone must take responsibility of what we post online.
but having to force someone to take down the video is not the correct way to slove things. seriously even if MPC wrote to youtube to take down the video, i don't think youtube will even entertain them, after all this video is taken in public and is not about classified stuff. -
In any case, I'm probably quite curious enough to attend the next COG..
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The batch of SPDS are doing the COG for the first time. Entirely new people.
Being new, they're not experienced enough to recover once a lapse occurs. They are very dependent on individual counting, and all it takes is a single mis-count for them to go haywire.
All I would say is, they're human and people do make mistakes. -
Understandably. And no one blames them if they are new, however, perhaps there was not enough practice? Or with most cases with bands, the conductor or drill leader(?) was not experienced enough to take the lapse and "weave" it away fast enough?Originally posted by minimalis:The batch of SPDS are doing the COG for the first time. Entirely new people.
Being new, they're not experienced enough to recover once a lapse occurs. They are very dependent on individual counting, and all it takes is a single mis-count for them to go haywire.
All I would say is, they're human and people do make mistakes. -
wow...MPC wrote to YT to remove the video?
What can't kill us makes us stronger..lucky i saved the flv...so many other places to host ill make sure i provide my email in the vid to contact me -
Pls don not be disappointed in the whole comd becos of probably 1 unit's doing . Insiders know which unit usually handles these . Besides i have already commented on the issue on last thread. Sad to say even the 1SG is a victim.There r so much controvesy and cock ups by the higher ups and usually the arrow head points to the men.Originally posted by Gordonator:if that's the case i'm truly disappointed that MPC cannot even take criticism for their mistakes.
come on, just because people leave negative and rude comments doesn't mean one have to force the person to take down the video. personally i have seen lots of caustic comments on many youtube videos, that's normal and unfortunately not something that can be controlled. that's why i always believe everyone must take responsibility of what we post online.
but having to force someone to take down the video is not the correct way to slove things. seriously even if MPC wrote to youtube to take down the video, i don't think youtube will even entertain them, after all this video is taken in public and is not about classified stuff.
As for the vid poster, y shld u even be intimidated by those ppl . R u a nsf? Even so on what grounds can u be charged at? U R NOT BREAKING any M.Law. U went to the COG as a civilian . -
yeah humans make mistakes but the point there is a problem with the commanders cos last time when we lack the experience to perform, RSM will postpone the month's COG by 1 week or better still, waive it off for the month. They are supposed to have trained for an entire month, then the week before the actual COG there would be a rehearsal, followed by vetting by the commanders (who mostly knows nothing about spds except RSM and chief instructors).
and hence the arguement is that how come the new management (I heard recently MPC underwent some major restructuring) allowed unexperienced performers to attend a state event? What happened to previous practices of postponing and canceling of the event? Something is wrong right, unless one of the top brass decides to wayang something, if not there's no reason to not postpone such events. (being an ex MP, my theory is that the chief instructor wants to wayang by telling his upstairs his squad is ready) -
Dudes...all this talk but where is the video?
I thought the forum operated a strict NPNT (and by logical extension, a NVNT) policy.
To paraphrase from that chick-flick 'Jerry Maguire'
Show Me The Video
Gimme gimme gimme. -
Originally posted by lwflee:
wa lau u nv read the 1st thread? lol .. anyw poster is rumoured to be threatened by mpcomd so LL have to take down
Dudes...all this talk but where is the video?
I thought the forum operated a strict NPNT (and by logical extension, a NVNT) policy.
To paraphrase from that chick-flick 'Jerry Maguire'
[b]Show Me The Video
Gimme gimme gimme.
[/b]
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just a fyi for non spds trained posters, the drill squad members are supposed to be very well versed in their trade, and past practices was that if you are not good enough, you get wacked jia lat jia lat until your drills become super zai then you get to perform, if not no show at all.
Why we were all so pissed and frustrated when we watch this video is cos the drills done in this particular COG is already the lowest level, any lower and you might as well be doing drills without a rifle. And if these are fundamental drills, how come can screw up until like that? If you watch other COGs right, you will notice there are tosses of rifles etc, when people falter on these, they get a pat on the back and encouragement because EVERYONE knows that these are really hard, tossing 6 kg shiet around is no joke.
ya saint we shouldn't condemn the entire unit, I believe all the screw up that happened is cos commanders like to point fingers.. that chief instructor prolly kena arrow to become chief instructor when he is cmi in spds
sad to say but last time my spds pass out parade we did drills that were more complexed than this COG and there was almost no screw up cos those who screw up cannot 'graduate' lol
venny now you know why we so pissed off? -
Originally posted by spdsboiboi86:
Not sure abt spds training structure is like . But the new management sibei cock is true .PPl up there earn rank then slack liao only use mouth talk cannot action one . Things happen find the lowy ranks to tekan to show n wayang "justice" have been done to "retify" the mistakes.
yeah humans make mistakes but the point there is a problem with the commanders cos last time when we lack the experience to perform, RSM will postpone the month's COG by 1 week or better still, waive it off for the month. They are supposed to have trained for an entire month, then the week before the actual COG there would be a rehearsal, followed by vetting by the commanders (who mostly knows [b]nothing about spds except RSM and chief instructors).
and hence the arguement is that how come the new management (I heard recently MPC underwent some major restructuring) allowed unexperienced performers to attend a state event? What happened to previous practices of postponing and canceling of the event? Something is wrong right, unless one of the top brass decides to wayang something, if not there's no reason to not postpone such events. (being an ex MP, my theory is that the chief instructor wants to wayang by telling his upstairs his squad is ready)[/b] -
I didn't take down the video. Apparently the starter of the first thread took it down from the thread.Originally posted by Saint`:wa lau u nv read the 1st thread? lol .. anyw poster is rumoured to be threatened by mpcomd so LL have to take down
Of all things, I would want to see the video before commenting further lah..
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Perhaps, but I guess in that situation, with so many people watching them, they didn't have a contingency that would work. Or they didn't have a contingency, at all.Originally posted by LazerLordz:Understandably. And no one blames them if they are new, however, perhaps there was not enough practice? Or with most cases with bands, the conductor or drill leader(?) was not experienced enough to take the lapse and "weave" it away fast enough?
This group of guys are preparing for 2 shows concurrently, the COG and the other's the KL International Tattoo next month. Put oneself in that position, new birds, 2 big shows with different steps, timing and movements. That's quite a lot to swallow. -
Well then, looks like the buck ought to stop with upper management. Sounds like a case of not enough men, too many jobs.Originally posted by minimalis:Perhaps, but I guess in that situation, with so many people watching them, they didn't have a contingency that would work. Or they didn't have a contingency, at all.
This group of guys are preparing for 2 shows concurrently, the COG and the other's the KL International Tattoo next month. Put oneself in that position, new birds, 2 big shows with different steps, timing and movements. That's quite a lot to swallow. -
ur point can understand. But can u understand the situation now ?Last time when APC n ZPC diff coy we specialise , now LL every1 has to do everything . Simply put , MORE WORK=LESS DELICATION=LOW MORALE. Had few apc friends telling me the CSM then very nice n take care to apc one , now new management new shit, culture change . MOreover , already said the glorious days u guys had is to be able to mount 2x72men Contigents . BUt now to form 1x oso quite chor liao. Even those never kena parade 72m , LL have to da GD . U go figure out la . Ratio nv change . But manpower downsize more than half. It is not they never and do not want to put in effort but simply bo xim to do , no motivation . I reckon u know u guys do a parade can get offs , but now they r more stingy to give from what i heard . I hear liao oso sian for them.Originally posted by spdsboiboi86:just a fyi for non spds trained posters, the drill squad members are supposed to be very well versed in their trade, and past practices was that if you are not good enough, you get wacked jia lat jia lat until your drills become super zai then you get to perform, if not no show at all.
Why we were all so pissed and frustrated when we watch this video is cos the drills done in this particular COG is already the lowest level, any lower and you might as well be doing drills without a rifle. And if these are fundamental drills, how come can screw up until like that? If you watch other COGs right, you will notice there are tosses of rifles etc, when people falter on these, they get a pat on the back and encouragement because EVERYONE knows that these are really hard, tossing 6 kg shiet around is no joke.
ya saint we shouldn't condemn the entire unit, I believe all the screw up that happened is cos commanders like to point fingers.. that chief instructor prolly kena arrow to become chief instructor when he is cmi in spds
sad to say but last time my spds pass out parade we did drills that were more complexed than this COG and there was almost no screw up cos those who screw up cannot 'graduate' lol
venny now you know why we so pissed off? -
Originally posted by LazerLordz:
lol ..they jus forget steps n almost gave up at 3/4 of the show . Then suddenly ppl clap n show end liao
I didn't take down the video. Apparently the starter of the first thread took it down from the thread.
Of all things, I would [b]want to see the video before commenting further lah.. [/b] -
yea u hit the nail . simply jus that . Funny thing is now is ording period , ppl have to clear leave n off but no one to cover duty hw to clear. In the end admin lapse kena F again ccb.Originally posted by LazerLordz:Well then, looks like the buck ought to stop with upper management. Sounds like a case of not enough men, too many jobs. -
Saint, am I concluding that this cross-specialisation has made the MPs less able to spend time concentrating on a single aspect of either drill or ops?
Like I said..manpower problems should be solved at the top, maybe these chaps needed this expensive wakeup call.. -
that is what i have observed inside along with fellow men . yes easy said than done , the top cant see it we LL . Prehaps they can see it but they choose to think it is still workable ?Originally posted by LazerLordz:Saint, am I concluding that this cross-specialisation has made the MPs less able to spend time concentrating on a single aspect of either drill or ops?
Like I said..manpower problems should be solved at the top, maybe these chaps needed this expensive wakeup call.. -
Has it occurred to anyone that it is weird to have people throwing guns around during change of guard?
Is this an attempt by the STB to create a version of the UK's Buckingham palace COG?
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Anyway can someone post the original link please? That would aid in trying to find other copies of the video?