who are the Elite Forces in SAF and Home Team
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Commandos are raid specialist. they do covert operations behind enemy lines.Originally posted by dumbdumb!:what's the role of guards and commando ah, i always confuse between the 2
Guards are "elite" infantry and are not part of division (please correct if I am wrong). They still function as normal infantry do, but are supposedly more hardy infantry troops.
In my personal opinion, Guards are elite simply because they government awarded them Elite status, unique uniforms and harder IPPT standards.
However, i being from a SIR unit, transferred to Guards and later back to 9DIV/INF....
I really don't see the difference of training between SIR and Guards...
Infact, SIR battalions have upgraded their capabilities to equal that of what was traditionally Guards.
As for Guards, things like heli-repelling are taken out of doctrines. heli-repelling now is just for confidence training. -
Ponder's post leads you to wonder why is there something called "Guards"?
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Re Heli rapelling. I can confirm that I heard the same during a discussion on Training with the CO of an Infantry Trg Establishment.Originally posted by Ponders:Commandos are raid specialist. they do covert operations behind enemy lines.
Guards are "elite" infantry and are not part of division (please correct if I am wrong). They still function as normal infantry do, but are supposedly more hardy infantry troops.
In my personal opinion, Guards are elite simply because they government awarded them Elite status, unique uniforms and harder IPPT standards.
However, i being from a SIR unit, transferred to Guards and later back to 9DIV/INF....
I really don't see the difference of training between SIR and Guards...
Infact, SIR battalions have upgraded their capabilities to equal that of what was traditionally Guards.
As for Guards, things like heli-repelling are taken out of doctrines. heli-repelling now is just for confidence training.
Our Guards are very similar to the British Paras - They are actually Infantry with higher physical standards (to get in, the potential recruit must be running a sub-9:12 2.4 before entering basic trg. ) They do the same trg as infantry with parachuting tagged on. However, I do not think anybody really expects a mass airdrop in the near future so the paras now primarily deploy using helicopters (they are a permanent part of the British Army's Air Assault Brigade) and they are used as SF support.
So the paras are an elite because of a much higher entry standard, beause they get all the plum jobs and they have a very distinguished fighting history.
From what I have heard, our Guards used to have a little of the above less fighting history, but I am sure the same cannot be said today. -
Originally posted by scabstermooch:
If you say our guards are=to British paras, I wonder what's the british quiv for our cdos.
Re Heli rapelling. I can confirm that I heard the same during a discussion on Training with the CO of an Infantry Trg Establishment.
Our Guards are very similar to the British Paras - They are actually Infantry with higher physical standards (to get in, the potential recruit must be running a sub-9:12 2.4 [b]before entering basic trg. ) They do the same trg as infantry with parachuting tagged on. However, I do not think anybody really expects a mass airdrop in the near future so the paras now primarily deploy using helicopters (they are a permanent part of the British Army's Air Assault Brigade) and they are used as SF support.
So the paras are an elite because of a much higher entry standard, beause they get all the plum jobs and they have a very distinguished fighting history.
From what I have heard, our Guards used to have a little of the above less fighting history, but I am sure the same cannot be said today. [/b] -
I never said they were equal, just that our guards are similar.Originally posted by chanjyj:If you say our guards are=to British paras, I wonder what's the british quiv for our cdos.
There is no direct equivalence for SAF Cdos but the Royal Navy's Royal Marines now have the commando role. The british Army used to have a commando unit but after the war, the role was given to the royal marines - I think its because the army commandos operated a lot from the royal navy's ships anyway.
For an archtypal commando-type raid during the war, look up Operation Chariot on google where british commandos raided a german submarine base. Basically I think what is extraordinary about the commando role is that they were given missions that meant almost certain death or capture. IIRC, they piloted a little ship dressed up to look roughly like a german ship into the base under the noses of german watchtowers and machine gun posts and proceeded to blow up the base.
All of them were captured or killed.
Jeremy Clarkson of Top Gear did a documentary on it. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KsYXEQ6F8J4 -
Our Guards are very similar to the British Paras
British Paras are proper airborne, lah. IMO Our GDS ops model takes after the US Air Cavalry division of the Vietnam War. Their modern version is the 101st "Screaming Eagles", but I'm not sure how much of their troop strength is airmobile & how much airborne.I really don't see the difference of training between SIR and Guards...
I sorta concur, having been attached to their exercises & as well as with the CDO once.
But GDS does have a legit predigree, both locally & in the larger air-assault ops. Their forefathers were the glider infantry in WW2, which the Band Of Brothers DVD didn't dramatize but which the Stephen Ambrose book did. (Imagine sitting in those flying coffins, with no airborne training & no escape routes if the plywood plane catches fire or breaks into two.) Helicopters then took over the ferrying some in the Korean War, but airmobile tactics would take off only in Vietnam.
Locally, the GDS & CDO units were once together in a biggie outfit called 7SIB, then under 3DIV. That was where I was coming from in my last post. This is really testing what I studied in NUS but, I believe, the SAF has gone through 3-4 ORBAT phases in its history. Apologies for any sweeping statements & errors:-
(1) 1970s, when 'Area 3 Command' (later 3DIV) & 4SAB were the pioneering frontline legions of the fledging SAF, & followed later in the decade by their reservist counterparts (6DIV, 9DIV, & the armoured versions). All other combat units were non-division. The 'superstar' was 7SIB, comprising 2 CDO units, 2 GDS units (initially as SAFGU & 8SIR) as well as ITD (precedessor of BMTC). But otherwise there was a general rivalry between the more conventional troops in "mechanized infantry" (SAR) & those in "line infantry" (SIR).
(2) post-1983, with the newly-introduced 13-yr reservist cycle (disastrous news for impending enlistees like me then ~lol~) & a wholescale revamping (even disbanding of) active outfits as a result. Each DIV gained a bunch of combat-support units, but would only command the majority of them on paper. The CDOs & ITD were already transferred out, but 7SIB retained its elite-infantry status after 7SIR (3GDS) converted to join them to form an all-GDS BDE. Most old-bird peng, as I recall, would immediately gave respect whenever 7SIB was mentioned back then, rather than to the more-hyped Best Unit competition.
(3) early-90s, under the Army 2000 plan. More troop redistribution, but each DIV finally assumed proper command & become true combat-arms entities. Best personalified by reservists & "ROD" becoming "NSmen" & "ORD" respectively to reflect new ops status. 8SAB joined 3DIV &, to me, that deflated a lot of the old rivalry between the active-time SAR & SIR units. Still, 4SAB, like CDO, was non-divisional & could thus still claim "independence". 7SIB was transferred out to spearhead the new 25DIV (RDF), & got their own khaki berets.
(4) I can recall the SAF announcing a Army 21 plan near the end of the millennium, but it appeared the post-9/11 events have prompted a rethink. The new one is the 3G SAF, introduced last year but no significant ORBAT changes so far. -
so to sum it up
Special Operations (sea, air, land capable)
SAF
Cdo including SOF
NDU including SWG
unit with specialised skillset
SAF
Guards - airmobile
home team
all unit under SOC
SPEAR
DART
ASSET
STS
erm, anything else? -
SPEAR is under Prisons Service, DART is under SDCF, not SOC ...Originally posted by zagan:so to sum it up
all unit under SOC
SPEAR
DART
ASSET
STS
erm, anything else?
ASSET is more like a joint team with Navy, PCG n etc ...
n u left out the STAR team, from the SPF ... -
sorry
by all unit under SOC i meant STAR, PTU, etc
SPEAR and the rest i put separately -
Infantry...
the people who the the dirtiest/most stupid of jobs..
walk most of the time...
sustain high casualties most of the time..
and still have time for a smoke break....
we may not be elite..but we get it done by brute force and numbers.....no stylo mylo choppers or planes to jump out off...
1SIR...will always be the pinnacle..
2SIR...2nd to none
3SIR...Close quarters combat..
4SIR...Soar like the eagles..(good luck in Alaska u guys!!)....btw...think they gonna be the next Best Inf unit..if not the next Best Unit...kinda sart arh this mono batch..
5SIR...Sting like nobodys business
6SIR...Last but not least...the spartans... -
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Originally posted by Rockhound:good luck in Alaska u guys!!
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Alaska?
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How come you got a pic of my house?
Please don't anyhow post .. i am still traumatised by this ordeal when they woke me up in the morning asking me if i have illegal mp3 in my computer.Originally posted by chanjyj: -
Originally posted by Ponders:How come you got a pic of my house?
Please don't anyhow post .. i am still traumatised by this ordeal when they woke me up in the morning asking me if i have illegal mp3 in my computer.
Buddy, if this is your house then you must be living in a... ROFL.
and that fella who woke you up must be me wince I am standing in front of the camera
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haha,
Since when there is a PTU in SPF? Thought that is only in HK? -
-delete-
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Ponders: hello fellow 9 div panther! u currently NSman? or Reg? =x
abt the SIRs thing, 2 4 and 5 specialise in what? -
heard last time from CO that 2SIR gonna be mechanized in the future....when that would be...i dunno....like stryker brigade...maybe my son's time arh....4G SAF or wat...Originally posted by Unknown_X:Ponders: hello fellow 9 div panther! u currently NSman? or Reg? =x
abt the SIRs thing, 2 4 and 5 specialise in what?
4SIR damn lucky sia...going Alaska for exercise...at first i dun believe sia.... -
Don't call em lucky because the cold will cause alot of problems for em.Originally posted by Rockhound:heard last time from CO that 2SIR gonna be mechanized in the future....when that would be...i dunno....like stryker brigade...maybe my son's time arh....4G SAF or wat...
4SIR damn lucky sia...going Alaska for exercise...at first i dun believe sia.... -
lucky arh.....Originally posted by chanjyj:Don't call em lucky because the cold will cause alot of problems for em.
i onli got to go to indonesia..........
i dun mind going if given the chance.....
cold be damned uh....heh -
Eh... indonesia things are cheap cheap cheap cheap cheap leh... and can get certain "items".Originally posted by Rockhound:lucky arh.....
i onli got to go to indonesia..........
i dun mind going if given the chance.....
cold be damned uh....heh
But of course, alaska is fun and beautiful.
Poor me is stuck in SG =.= -
Anyone heard of 1. ADF before?
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Exercise with US Forces or as part of ground support for an enlarged Red Flag?Originally posted by Rockhound:heard last time from CO that 2SIR gonna be mechanized in the future....when that would be...i dunno....like stryker brigade...maybe my son's time arh....4G SAF or wat...
4SIR damn lucky sia...going Alaska for exercise...at first i dun believe sia.... 
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from what's floating around...i think in the future all infantrymen will walk less.Originally posted by Rockhound:heard last time from CO that 2SIR gonna be mechanized in the future....when that would be...i dunno....like stryker brigade...maybe my son's time arh....4G SAF or wat...
4SIR damn lucky sia...going Alaska for exercise...at first i dun believe sia....