PM's son's army gaffe and why we have to worry
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Sarcasm is a lost art, unfortunately.Originally posted by FireAndHell:Wow.....you called me Einstein!! If i am Einstein, than what are you, not who are you.....[btw, Einstein comes from you mouth....not mine..hehehehe
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Look, either get informed and then discuss, or just take your specious opinions and keep them to yourself.
There's no need to resort to banal name-calling and baiting.
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Which sources.........email that's in the thread or TODAY paper.....email that's published in the thread can be edited am I right?Originally posted by LazerLordz:sigh.
so much ill-informed people. the sources are out there, if they don't read up before debating, then it's their problem.
I just wanna know which is the truth.......the email in this here thread or TODAY paper...[have a copy of TODAY paper, haven't gone down to buy the Straits Times yet], and which is a lie.....that's all I wanna know....not trying to be smart. No harm in trying to know the truth is there??
Btw, has anyone here read the version in TODAY paper or just relying on the email that's publish in this thread? -
Ain't that the truth, buddy-boy. Every time this guy posts, light bends and the collective IQ does an impersonation of Debbie in Dallas.Originally posted by LazerLordz:Sarcasm is a lost art, unfortunately. -
I am so sorry.....but you should direct this to the one who called me Einstein....isn't this name calling? I did not call him any names did I?Originally posted by LazerLordz:Sarcasm is a lost art, unfortunately.
Look, either get informed and then discuss, or just take your specious opinions and keep them to yourself.
There's no need to resort to banal name-calling and baiting. 
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You should read both, and not the one merely published here. Go and compare it with other copies available on the internet if you feel that it was edited.Originally posted by FireAndHell:Which sources.........email that's in the thread or TODAY paper.....email that's published in the thread can be edited am I right?
I just wanna know which is the truth.......the email in this here thread or TODAY paper...[have a copy of TODAY paper, haven't gone down to buy the Straits Times yet], and which is a lie.....that's all I wanna know....not trying to be smart. No harm in trying to know the truth is there??
Btw, has anyone here read the version in TODAY paper or just relying on the email that's publish in this thread?
I would not trust our local press to report on the matter in its entirety as well, given that this is a military matter and involving someone who's pretty up the charts.
In any case, don't just rely on one source. TODAY as a newspaper has limits to what they can publish. -
i'll second this statement.Originally posted by LazerLordz:In any case, don't just rely on one source. TODAY as a newspaper has limits to what they can publish.
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Let's move on.
That's what they will say in the end.
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As quoted from Li's email:Originally posted by Stoat:RockStar you are an educated man, but please listen to what I have to say. Li was NOT on duty at all. Li's duty was on Sunday and his friend's duty was Friday and Saturday. Li's friend Awol'ed on friday and came back Sat. Li was just goodhearted to help cover his friend's ass on friday.
If you have done DO duties you will know that most officers are quite relax people and just ask their friends to stand-in for them when they are not around. It's quite common and done off-the-record. The correct way is to let the CO's PA know and change the RO for the day.
For those that still do not understand. The name of the officer on duty on friday was Li's friend NOT Li.
"On the Friday however, LTA X called to inform me that he was busy during the day, and if I could cover for him until the evening. To this I agreed to do so. At about 1600 hours, I received a call from LTA X, informing me that he was on the way and that I could leave first, thought this would result in a time where there would be no duty commander in camp, he informed me that this had already be cleared with our OC. I therefore left camp."
He had agreed to stand in and take responsibility as the duty commander for that period of time.
How could he leave on the words of "I am on the way, you may go off now"? Since there would be no duty commander in the camp, who would be around to handle emergencies? Or have soldiers nowadays taken security for granted?
The point of whether it was his rostered duty or not does not matter. Fact was, if he had left, (which he did), there would be no duty commander till the "LTA arrived".
I assume you have done DO duties before. Hence, how can you say that Li "left on the orders of his superior" and justify it? -
wow...
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"Move on? Move on? Move on your si lang tao ah. You must exprain! "Originally posted by charlize:Let's move on.
That's what they will say in the end. -
Any differences b/w the email as posted in the thread, on the blogs, and that released by the 'official' media?
ANyone kind enuff to check? -
"Right now we have Low Thia Khiang, Chiam See Tong, Steve Chia. We can deal with them. Suppose you had 10, 15, 20 opposition members in Parliament. Instead of spending my time thinking what is the right policy for Singapore, I'm going to spend all my time thinking what's the right way to fix them, to buy my supporters votes, how can I solve this week's problem and forget about next year's challenges?"
Our Great PM Lee
http://www.channelnewsasia.com/stories/singaporelocalnews/view/206313/1/.html -
Tho I am not a big supporter of PM LHL, I must say I'm very proud of what his son has done.
The officers in SAF (at least in my former unit) are definately not up to standard, most of them has no leadership quality at all, and when comparisans are made... double standards abound. They are quick to punish when the men make minor mistakes but nothing happens to them.
His letter has opened up a can of worms that has been lying in the cellar for too long. -
if i was given an order by my superior saying " OC gave the green light", the natural thing to do for me is to ask OC since this is not a proper procedure to just leave one's post.
Having said that, let it go... SAF is indeed a very dark place.. justice will be serve a la politcally correct fashion.
Netizens are only baying for 2Lt Li's blood just because he has blod ties with the PM.
And as to LL's comment that he will not hold political office... well he has a PSC scholarship.. meaning he's in the civil service, and may/will rise to a top civil appoinment. If he did bypass the rules of the military, will he be able to comply with the rules in the public service? -
On the Friday however, LTA X called to inform me that he was busy during the day, and if I could cover for him until the evening. To this I agreed to do so. At about 1600 hours, I received a call from LTA X, informing me that he was on the way and that I could leave first, thought this would result in a time where there would be no duty commander in camp, he informed me that this had already be cleared with our OC. I therefore left camp.
1) Does 2LT Li's early departure constitute AWOL when in this case, he has been granted permission by his superior, LTA X to do so?
While under no circumstances he should leave his post until somebody took over from him. In this case, perhaps this should be regarded as a negligence of duty instead?
2) As a young 2LT, he does have plenty to learn about SAF. In this case, if he feels that the OC has not been doing his job, the next superior to seek is the CO at the next higher command rather than going straight to the top brass of Mindef. So for his charge and reprimand in circulating the email, it is perhaps the most appropriate action to be taken against him.I have been informed that LTA X was to be given 10 extra duties, though this may be considered an extremely light punishment there is a further problem. To date, which is to say, 2 months from the incidents, none of the duties have been published in the battalion RO, in addition, LTA X has not served any of the extra duties he was supposedly awarded. In addition, this system of leniency is not consistent throughout the battalion, or even the company. The following was published in the RO on 1 1th of June 2007:
I salute him in his courage to stand up for something which he feels that it is not right. An officer who has committed the same offence as with a WOSE, the punishment should at bare minimum be similar but definitely not lighter and it should be carried out with immediate effect.
SXXXXXXXX CPL _____ ________ Non-compliance with a lawful duty or order. stoppage of Leave for 7 days
This was the punishment for CPL ______ for leaving camp an hour before he was supposed to. This was published less than a week after his infringement. If you were to calculate the time AWOL alone, LTA X was missing for a minimum of over 20 hours. This does not take into the account the fact that he repeated the crime less than a week after being reprimanded the first time. This does not take into account the lying to his superior officer. This does not take into account the fact that he is an officer, and thus should be even more liable than corporal. -
He's in the Foreign Service. However, like I said, he doesn't seem to have any inclination to serve as a politician, or stay on beyond his bond as a FSO.Originally posted by sir sickolot II:if i was given an order by my superior saying " OC gave the green light", the natural thing to do for me is to ask OC since this is not a proper procedure to just leave one's post.
Having said that, let it go... SAF is indeed a very dark place.. justice will be serve a la politcally correct fashion.
Netizens are only baying for 2Lt Li's blood just because he has blod ties with the PM.
And as to LL's comment that he will not hold political office... well he has a PSC scholarship.. meaning he's in the civil service, and may/will rise to a top civil appoinment. If he did bypass the rules of the military, will he be able to comply with the rules in the public service? -
No, of course you didn't. You just went on secondary data (i.e. TODAY) instead of primary data (i.e. Li's email) and then wrung your hands, jogged on tiptoe on the spot and kept chanting "Slander".Originally posted by FireAndHell:I am so sorry.....but you should direct this to the one who called me Einstein....isn't this name calling? I did not call him any names did I?
Okay, I'll drop all sarcasm. You're a moron and damning evidence that people shouldn't breed with their blood relatives. Happy? -
Maybe FireAndHell would do good to realize what ranking our press is in world ratings...
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Wow, what a hornet's next. My own comments:-
- So Li turned out to be a whistleblower after all, like Dharmendra Yadav said. That explains all the positive feedback at those blog sites. I'd recognized Yadav, from the 2nd link posted yesterday. He's a corporate lawyer for NTUC Income & also writes articles for TODAY, Sintercom & Think Centre. No way he would anyhow hantam bola.
- Disagree with the person who insinuated it's a "small matter." Fact is, a few hundred men already knew about it, since the CO assembled the whole SIG BN for a scolding. (Gossip or not, with Li's familial ties, it would've only been a matter of time for them to find out who the instigator was.) Compounding matters, Li was tactless enough to write to various other SAF commanders, further amplifying the matter but on different food chains. In other words, this wasn't a case of a LCP seeking redress from his Member of Parliament & then the CO ordered a BN parade for a tekan session. Rather, this was a commissioned officer who, righteous or not, pulled off a Chee Soon Juan-style publicity stunt.
- I'm quite surprised Li got away with only a reprimand. Not so much disobeying the General Orders, which is a set of expedient regulations promulgated when needed anyway. Neither do I think he's chargeable for going AWOL (he actually wasn't on duty when there was no DO). Rather, I reckon he should've been put on trial for improper handover of duty -- but even then only cuz he'd already disrupted his NS & hence no way to discipline him internally with extra duties. From what I know of others who ORDed with customary charges hanging over their heads, the punishment for Li would've been a fine (once he reported back).
- I'm more perturbed to learn that the other "supervisory officers" only got similar slaps on their wrists. There were mentions of duty personnel, but doesn't the unit have a duty BOS too, i.e. a senior NCO equivalent assigned for those days? If he/they didn't do his/their jobs, where's the accountability? -
SAF is f|-|cked-up.
Li is not skilled enuf and dunno how to play politically within SAF bah.
that's all i can say. -
ah beng comment...beri singaporean...
http://rockson.blogspot.com/
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Friday, July 13, 2007
PM son shoot email complain SAF officers ****ed up!
Lawrence send me this email, say it is write by Prime Minister Lee Hsian Long son, call Hong Yi.
He say this 2LT Hong Yi send his email to minister, minister mother, minister mistress, minister maid, chief of army, chief of army mother father, and all the signal battalion, from CO to storeman, OC to clerk. Kanena so hiong ah!
Lawrence say he scared kena MSD call him go aircon room lim kopi, so he delete all the unit name and people name. ****er always so kia see.
I read the lancheow email, wah lao eh! So long ah! Must be scholar NSF write one, write until so long the email. Is like story book like that! I take so long to read because the ******* Lawrence put so many blank here blank there, and the PM son use a lot of ****ing big word, make me take 2 hour to read finish. But after reading the long mother story email, it look like the LTA X quite the kwai lan, keep siam the DO duty, call people cover him, AWOL, nabei what kind of ****ed up regular is this officer?
(Actually, how come the LTA name is call X? I never hear before people got this kind of name X? He think he is some tua kee pop star issit? Call himself X)
This LTA X also stupid one. Want to tua also don't tua the son of the Dragon Prince Prime Minister lah. Never use his ******* brain. Now Hong Kan by Hong Yi liao lor!
If I am a sign-on officer and I am together same unit as the prime minister son, I not only wun slack, I will be more on the ball than the chief of army ok? I will aim to be ****ing Best Sword of honour medal winner officer of the Whole Singapore! Wait he open his mouth at the dinner table tell his PM father I am a cho bo lan officer how?
I agree with PM son say the officer standard is ******* standard. Drop a lot from my time liao. You ask me, what is a good officer?
A good officer is the kind who know how to take cover and don't kena caught! Hahahahaha!!!!
This LTA not only dunno how to take cover, he try to eat snake IN FRONT OF THE PM SON! Stupid until cannot stupid liao!
The OC of the LTA and the PM son is another ****ed up regular ocifer.
I tell you, regular always protect regular backside one. That is why in the army got so many ****ed up officer, and lazy, no -use NCO who after hide inside the army so long, eat sleep talk idle, when they come out to normal working world cannot get any job.
The PM son already tell you, oi! this LTA is a mother ****er. You never punish him because want to protect his regular backside. Now see lah! Sure the OC also will kena poke backside liao. Charge until ka chng peet! See how far his army career go now. Sure kena post to become OC of some ****ed up area-cleaning leaves-sweeping unit. Become Kumlando Unit OC hahahahahaha!
If the PM son tell you one of your LTA is King of Eat Snake, you are the OC you better say "Yes sir! I charge him now sir! I now send him go DB jiak hong sir! I now cut off his lancheow give you as present sir!"
Now see lah! Become Henta Kaki Company OC liao lor! Dun forget this one is his Grandfather Army ok? Hahahahahaha!!!
But this kind of complain email only son of the prime minister can dare to send one. Army always very like to tell the man must follow chain of command. Means you small fish must complain to your small fish OC first, then your small fish OC tell his small fish CO, then your CO tell his wife, and go to sleep.
If you or me send this kind of email, and send to so many ****er, we sure kena charge until our lampah drop. You and me we are the hokkien peng, must diam diam, don't so hero, or else sure kena mark one, sure no canteen break one. Anyway we in army that time where got time write this kind of email complain this complain that? Army time is best time to go and cheong and **** ger, not waste time **** officer! Hahahaha!
This is what the ****er Lawrence send me, so many blank here blank there, *******!
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I reckon he should've been put on trial for improper handover of duty
Good point. Thanks for clearing the air. -
Ya lor, he so silly, should just complain to his dad rather than write email to so many people.Originally posted by Shervon99:The kinda news that makes for a good saturday lunch gossip.
Someone please keep a copy of all these to give him as souvenier when he runs for election next time (maybe 10 years later).
Seriously, this kinda thing is very common in the corporate world. Whistle blowing also got an effective way of doing it... now email blast to whole company... like that a lot of people will face black black... this is like an open invitation to gossip behind the person (prince li) back.
I wonder what is his dad and grandfather's reaction. Face black black?
Now he very famous, like the Wee Shu Min girl.
Everyone will be afraid to work with him. -
I don't see whats the big deal about a stupid email.
I did not even read through the 7 pages of replies. -
ROCKSON TAN IS BACK!!!