PM's son's army gaffe and why we have to worry
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Exactly - Li still hasn't been made to answer for his own absence between 1600 on 20 April and 1800 the next day. Regardless of whether it was the LTA, OC or Elvis who told him it was all right to go, he was still effectively AWOL.Originally posted by casshern:how much may i ask? no doubt the LTA Rxx had been court martialled which should be the way for AWOL, how about our 2LT Li? i would like to know the punishment melt out, not just for 2LT Li but for LTA Rxx, also. -
I think in any military the chain of command is needed especially when it move up the rank.
i think to be an educated individual and an officer who is emotionally imature to send out E-mails.....Does he thought about consequences? These are the poor judgement and decision.
The million dollar question is : Would anyone fight side by side with him? Now that he is a back sniper. In future would he call the proper shot. -
His grandfather no doubt will say to give him time to learn and not ask him to account for his mistakes just like the way he treats his daughter in law and her million dollars fiasco after another billion dollars fiasco, no?
It is like in Sgp, there is nobody better to replace them... and for Singaporeans to demand accountability from them is a sin.
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Well, I've a very strong feeling that HY will not go into politics.
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Was Li also on AWOL?? Where did you get this information the Li went AWOL on the above dates that you mentioned?? .....hmmm.......better get your facts right ....slander is a serious business you noe!...Originally posted by Gedanken:Exactly - Li still hasn't been made to answer for his own absence between 1600 on 20 April and 1800 the next day. Regardless of whether it was the LTA, OC or Elvis who told him it was all right to go, he was still effectively AWOL. -
The kinda news that makes for a good saturday lunch gossip.
Someone please keep a copy of all these to give him as souvenier when he runs for election next time (maybe 10 years later).
Seriously, this kinda thing is very common in the corporate world. Whistle blowing also got an effective way of doing it... now email blast to whole company... like that a lot of people will face black black... this is like an open invitation to gossip behind the person (prince li) back.
I wonder what is his dad and grandfather's reaction. Face black black? -
even my condo the old uncle and auntie securities will not leave thier post at the gym until their replacment turns up.
At most they will complain thru' their walkie talkie to the command post why the replacement not here yet, then when the replacement turned up they kana fxxk by the one staying back late to cover him or her.
i not sure these uncles aunties got scholarship or not, but they sure got sense of duty. if no guard at gym then resident how to book gym for use? -
Of course he was, or haven't you been reading this thread? At the very least, the charge could be argued down to dereliction of duty, but the bugger left the post unattended. He can claim that anybody up to CDF told him that he could go, but that doesn't change the fact that he knowingly left the post without actually being relieved, and whether that was for 5 minutes or 22 hours does not change the fact.Originally posted by FireAndHell:Was Li also on AWOL?? Where did you get this information the Li went AWOL on the above dates that you mentioned?? .....hmmm.......better get your facts right ....slander is a serious business you noe!...
Therefore, it's fact based upon what Li himself has described of the situation and not slander. -
Read up on the whole event, and be enlightened.Originally posted by FireAndHell:Was Li also on AWOL?? Where did you get this information the Li went AWOL on the above dates that you mentioned?? .....hmmm.......better get your facts right ....slander is a serious business you noe!... -
TODAY's paper did not mentioned Li went AWOL. Li was found to have, Quote "contravened the General Orders of Mindef by broadcasting his letter of complaint to many other servicemen......almost all of whom were neither directly under his command, nor in an official capacity..." Unquote [extracted from TODAY paper dated 13th July 2007 page 03].Originally posted by Gedanken:Of course he was, or haven't you been reading this thread? At the very least, the charge could be argued down to dereliction of duty, but the bugger left the post unattended. He can claim that anybody up to CDF told him that he could go, but that doesn't change the fact that he knowingly left the post without actually being relieved, and whether that was for 5 minutes or 22 hours does not change the fact.
Therefore, it's fact based upon what Li himself has described of the situation and not slander.
So you're are saying that the thread here is accurate and that TODAY paper is a pile of crap?? ....... better get your facts right boy.....double slander you noe.....hot soup!! -
Dude, we are commenting on the original email that he wrote himself. Not the charge MINDEF mete out.Originally posted by FireAndHell:TODAY's paper did not mentioned Li went AWOL. Li was found to have, Quote "contravened the General Orders of Mindef by broadcasting his letter of complaint to many other servicemen......almost all of whom were neither directly under his command, nor in an official capacity..." Unquote [extracted from TODAY paper dated 13th July 2007 page 03].
So you're are saying that the thread here is accurate and that TODAY paper is a pile of crap?? ....... better get your facts right boy.....double slander you noe.....hot soup!! -
please read here for better understanding before debating. thanks a millionOriginally posted by FireAndHell:TODAY's paper did not mentioned Li went AWOL. Li was found to have, Quote "contravened the General Orders of Mindef by broadcasting his letter of complaint to many other servicemen......almost all of whom were neither directly under his command, nor in an official capacity..." Unquote [extracted from TODAY paper dated 13th July 2007 page 03].
So you're are saying that the thread here is accurate and that TODAY paper is a pile of crap?? ....... better get your facts right boy.....double slander you noe.....hot soup!! -
Li didn't AWOL, he just covered his friend's duties unofficially. In fact he could have just left at anytime but he chose to wait until his superior asked him to leave.Originally posted by FireAndHell:TODAY's paper did not mentioned Li went AWOL. Li was found to have, Quote "contravened the General Orders of Mindef by broadcasting his letter of complaint to many other servicemen......almost all of whom were neither directly under his command, nor in an official capacity..." Unquote [extracted from TODAY paper dated 13th July 2007 page 03].
So you're are saying that the thread here is accurate and that TODAY paper is a pile of crap?? ....... better get your facts right boy.....double slander you noe.....hot soup!! -
The link that you put up leads to a "v" site....dunno wat this has to do with the current thread...hmm.....Originally posted by duotiga83:please read here for better understanding before debating. thanks a million
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So can it be said that TODAY paper did'nt publish the whole truth and nothing but the whole truth??Originally posted by Stoat:Li didn't AWOL, he just covered his friend's duties unofficially. In fact he could have just left at anytime but he chose to wait until his superior asked him to leave. -
I sympathise with Li Hongyi. One could a great sense of injustice and anger seething amongst his words.
Injustice and anger because his superior was let off so easily, despite his offences. Extreme exasperation and disappointment must also have been on the cards too.
Even though Li left camp at a time when his duty was long over, he still should not have done so on the mere words of his officer: "I am coming now". He should have waited (but of course the LTA did not turn up).
Talk that "soldiers should obey a superior's orders" is crap. If your officer has asked you to go against military rules, would you?
Well anyway, he deserves to be charged. As an officer, he knows the military statutes. Perhaps he should have sought more advice before writing this email.
Nevertheless, Li is still young, probably not past age 20. He should have admitted this wrongdoing in his letter. He should also have used a humbler tone towards the end of the letter since it was addressed to the CDF and Teo Chee Hean. Now, netizens comment that he is "arrogant". -
I believe Li is a patriot at heart.
Still young though, much to learn.
Do not be quick to deride him just because he is the son and grandson. -
RockStar you are an educated man, but please listen to what I have to say. Li was NOT on duty at all. Li's duty was on Sunday and his friend's duty was Friday and Saturday. Li's friend Awol'ed on friday and came back Sat. Li was just goodhearted to help cover his friend's ass on friday.Originally posted by Rock^Star:I sympathise with Li Hongyi. One could a great sense of injustice and anger seething amongst his words.
Injustice and anger because his superior was let off so easily, despite his offences. Extreme exasperation and disappointment must also have been on the cards too.
Even though Li left camp at a time when his duty was long over, he still should not have done so on the mere words of his officer: "I am coming now". He should have waited (but of course the LTA did not turn up).
Talk that "soldiers should obey a superior's orders" is crap. If your officer has asked you to go against military rules, would you?
Well anyway, he deserves to be charged. As an officer, he knows the military statutes. Perhaps he should have sought more advice before writing this email.
Nevertheless, Li is still young, probably not past age 20. He should have admitted this wrongdoing in his letter. He should also have used a humbler tone towards the end of the letter since it was addressed to the CDF and Teo Chee Hean. Now, netizens comment that he is "arrogant".
If you have done DO duties you will know that most officers are quite relax people and just ask their friends to stand-in for them when they are not around. It's quite common and done off-the-record. The correct way is to let the CO's PA know and change the RO for the day.
For those that still do not understand. The name of the officer on duty on friday was Li's friend NOT Li. -
So you are saying that TODAY's article gave more facts than Li's original email? Better find out what facts are first, boy.Originally posted by FireAndHell:So you're are saying that the thread here is accurate and that TODAY paper is a pile of crap?? ....... better get your facts right boy.....double slander you noe.....hot soup!! 
By the way, if you hold TODAY up to be the pinnacle of journalism, you're the one in serious trouble. -
Li was the officer on site at the time. He could have found another officer to stand in when he left, but regardless of the arrangements, he failed in his responsibility by leaving the camp without having an on-site officer in charge.Originally posted by Stoat:Li didn't AWOL, he just covered his friend's duties unofficially. In fact he could have just left at anytime but he chose to wait until his superior asked him to leave.
The moment he agreed to take over the duty he became Johnny-on-the-Spot, regardless of what the roster said. Tough bickies. -
Ah, a piece of the puzzle falls into place - you're taking the bureaucratic route, where paperwork trumps common sense.Originally posted by Stoat:For those that still do not understand. The name of the officer on duty on friday was Li's friend NOT Li.
Well and good. If that was the case, it would be just jim dandy for a paramedic to stop trying to resuscitate someone who's just collapsed with a heart attack because his shift's ended. "Sorry, Mrs Tan, your husband died at 4.01, and my colleague who came on shift at 4.00 is responsible for the death". -
Speaking of Teo Chee Hean, when's sailor-boy "going to get to the bottom of this"?
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Go read the email and work it out, Einstein.Originally posted by FireAndHell:So can it be said that TODAY paper did'nt publish the whole truth and nothing but the whole truth?? -
sigh.
so much ill-informed people. the sources are out there, if they don't read up before debating, then it's their problem. -
Wow.....you called me Einstein!! If i am Einstein, than what are you, not who are you.....[btw, Einstein comes from you mouth....not mine..heheheheOriginally posted by Gedanken:Go read the email and work it out, Einstein.
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