SOMETHING IMPORTANT FOR DISCUSSION
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Originally posted by LazerLordz:Ah Jun,
Firstly, I believe you have not served a day of NS. Let me know if I'm wrong.
Secondly, if there is something serious going-on, have you reported it to the relevant people? They can help you instead of your constant flaming. Please post in a considerate and neat manner so that people can understand what you are saying.
If they have replied, please do not continue to repeat your initial point. Your behavior would have gotten you banned in other military forums or suspended for infractions. We are all not here 24/7, so post wisely and take the time to read what others have to say.
AhJun, if you missed my post I say one more time, I am willing to help you. Help you internally within the SAF and not give you suggestions from the outside. If you are uncomfortable telling me where you are from and your problems, you can PM me. I will listen and try to help.
If you are a pre-enlistee than just stop worrying until you enter BMT. Change parades and all the funny stuff have been out since 1995 (I think). About the only parade you have left is water parade, and even that, people are not THAT unreasonable. (Unless, maybe, you happened to be THAT suay like me).
Nothing to worry.
If you have ORD, Iand are angry about something, tell us the specific thing you are angry about. That will make it to understand your point, rather than talking about the whole big spectrum. But frankly, what's the point? Let bygones be bygones. -
BMT is nothing, wait until 3 months Vocation course, never ever tio MONO INTAKE.
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yOriginally posted by Quiet Guy:BMT is nothing, wait until 3 months Vocation course, never ever tio MONO INTAKE. -
Mono intake=Guards, NDU, CDO, specialised units. Training is much more vigorous than BMT.Originally posted by AhJun:y -
To me, WELFARE means preparing the soldiers as a team (platoon, company, battalion and so on) to achieve the objectives during operations, not just survive through. There are many interpretations how to do it, since not many have been involved in actual operations. Many tends to think that pushing to the limit is the way, and I certainly don't blame them. Of course, there are also some senior ranks who do not know what they are doing.Originally posted by AhJun:WHAT EXACTLY IS WELFARE? -
many times we only see welfare as short-term, instant gratification (e.g. off, leave) and almost always from the personal, private life perspective. we fail to see welfare in the longer-term, and from the professional angle. i guess the fact that ours is a conscript force and that we dont live in constant threat of annihilation plays a huge part in this. of course, the fact that accomplishing the latter means short term pain (i.e. tough training, drilling in discipline, etc) does not help either.Originally posted by KoolKool:To me, WELFARE means preparing the soldiers as a team (platoon, company, battalion and so on) to achieve the objectives during operations, not just survive through. There are many interpretations how to do it, since not many have been involved in actual operations. Many tends to think that pushing to the limit is the way, and I certainly don't blame them. Of course, there are also some senior ranks who do not know what they are doing.
but indeed, from the organisation's point of view, welfare can only encompass both, and in fact, the latter has to take precedence over the former. only then can it be accountable to the nation for discharging its duties fully and for taking care of the people under its charge.
but this hence also creates the constant tussle. -
hazi... it a "citizen" army. if it happening in a regular army such as US, what else can you say?Originally posted by AhJun:ok i agree that recruits r the lowest lifeform in the army
no matter how instructors whack them, they r still human
and by being a human being, there is a limit to what they can do
why are instructors pushing them beyond their limit and when they cnt take it anymore they wanna fall out they can't cos instructor sae they chao keng
take the saf accidents/deaths and the commando dunking case
seeing pple losing their lives in saf
make parents think whether welfare is really enforced in saf
i am not trying to flame any organisations here but then its realli something worth to take note of
think abt it tough training is needed for whatever vocation ok this is appropriate but think abt it what will parents feel whenever they hear of such unfortunate news on the tv
can they refuse to send their sons for NS? NO. they can't. its every males' duty and responsibility to fully serve tt 2 years as part of their life
everyone haf a limit. they can do a lot of things but everyone i believe will reach a certain point and haf to stop they can't continue becos its beyond their limit
being pushed too hard in the army leading to suicide cases
WHAT EXACTLY IS WELFARE?
i am a ex-regular and answer to your question.WHAT EXACTLY IS WELFARE?
THE ARMY BEST WELFARE FOR IT SOLDIERS IS TOUGH TRAINING.
non of my man ask any form of welfare from me.
Yes, they "break" but after that they have reached another "level." it fall back to what "kind" of leader you have, nothing else. you meet someone who think he is above all and all for himself. just too bad and in today SAF, we just have too many who are only for himself.
do you still like to ask WELFARE from your PL SGT? before you go ask any. you must know what is ENTITLEMENT and what is PRIVILEGE? -
I don't think SAF want to see their trainees die of accident. but you must understand military training for the purposes of Killing. It is not a kind of job that goes to the office and get fire from the job, In the hope of tough training, SAF hope that in times of war the tough training help to keep the young men alive and not only that able to withstand stress mentally and physically. Remember that the person fight beside him is also in danger.Originally posted by AhJun:one of saf core value is care for soldier
u called the commando dunking case care for soldier?
and why everytime muz wait till something unfortunate happen then mindef investigate this and that and offer condolence to family? its alrdy too late
come on death and incidents can be PREVENTED in the first place and not wait until it happened alrdy then look into this and that its alrdy too late. y can't saf clear welfare rules one shot?
It is normal for every recurit to experience fear, how does one cope with stress and fear is best endow by friends and family members surround him with support to help the person transit into a men. -
but also got pple after bmt get posted to such units whatOriginally posted by chanjyj:Mono intake=Guards, NDU, CDO, specialised units. Training is much more vigorous than BMT. -
Cross that bridge when you come to it. Face it, this is the real world. You have to make the best of what you get.Originally posted by AhJun:but also got pple after bmt get posted to such units what -
maybe we shouldn't be so blunt. (I've also been guilty of that in previous posts). I've been thinking about his topic for a while, and got a feeling he's just very scared, and that made him post all these stuff. The tone of his writing may not really reflect his true feelings. (He's worried about his physical and emotional welfare when the time comes for him to enter NS)Originally posted by LazerLordz:Cross that bridge when you come to it. Face it, this is the real world. You have to make the best of what you get.
Most people lack the ability to selectively detach themselves from feelings and emotions. I think he is probably one of them. If everyone tell him to "just face it" (and all the other harsh comments) I think he will really be miserable when he enters NS, recalling what we said to him. No sort of "comfort zone" where he can remember that before NS, people have told him that "it's not so bad after all, just endure for a little while".
(Yes, I've come to the conclusion his is pre-NS). -
Blunt is exactly what he is going to get in NS why baby sit and molly coddle him now?....Originally posted by chanjyj:maybe we shouldn't be so blunt. (I've also been guilty of that in previous posts). I've been thinking about his topic for a while, and got a feeling he's just very scared, and that made him post all these stuff. The tone of his writing may not really reflect his true feelings. (He's worried about his physical and emotional welfare when the time comes for him to enter NS)
Most people lack the ability to selectively detach themselves from feelings and emotions. I think he is probably one of them. If everyone tell him to "just face it" (and all the other harsh comments) I think he will really be miserable when he enters NS, recalling what we said to him. No sort of "comfort zone" where he can remember that before NS, people have told him that "it's not so bad after all, just endure for a little while".
(Yes, I've come to the conclusion his is pre-NS).
This guy is taking up the few bad incidents and paralysing himself with fear over it....why not he go find the thousands of ppl who "benefitted" or came out alive from NS.....sheesh
I miss log PT LOL -
maybe ahjun should go talk to a saf psychiatrist at MMI or counsellor at SAF counselling ctr
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Originally posted by AhJun:but also got pple after bmt get posted to such units what
after BMT dun post out? than do what? fit, combat voc, where in hell do you think you will be going?
it 2007. declare you a 302 la.
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everyone can LEARN.Originally posted by AhJun:normally when a recruit comes in, he's there to learn military stuff and to instill basic discipline himself. y recruit suffer the most? is it becos they r the lowest lifeform in the army? is it becos they r lowest rank? y r they being pushed beyond their limit. i guess being pushed beyond their limit tt's the reason y they cnt take it and do silly stuff in the end. ITs the training that drive them beyond breaking point and suicide. they r there to learn. that's the first thing recruits do.LEARN.
even being taught how to fold no4 uniform is also LEARN. then y r there unreasonable punishments?
QUESTION IS ~ CAN YOU DO IT PERFECTLY. do away with perfect, can you do it? -
This is completely laughable.
Scared? What's this punk got to be scared about? Scared is realsiing that you're half an hour late to your objective, and you get that block of ice at the bottom of your stomach knowing that the team you're supposed to be supporting is getting slaughtered because you're not there to provide cover.
Everything else is chickensh!t, bullsh!t and any other kind of sh!t you care to name. -
INTERGRITY... no one fall out, THEY DROP OUT.Originally posted by Obersturmfuhrer:Is it really that impt? I dun recall recruit suicides happening every week when I was in BMT. So many have gone through it, sucked it in and took it like the man they're suppose to become so why dun you kids quit your whining and start growing up?
was thinking what the fark SAF doing in these day? -
LEARN to fold NO. 4 but can not do it is not call giving 100%Originally posted by AhJun:how to expect soldiers to gif their 100% during training when they r given unreasonable treatment?
by telling you to give 100% seem to be a unreasonable treatment to you? -
ermmm.... morning sick parade? it your own fault not to report sick.Originally posted by AhJun:not in gd health wanna fall out yet instructor say u kengster and dun let u rest
worry get normal duty and not att B?
NO ONE FALL OUT BUT DROP OUT.
instructors are more worry than rec. sad to say we have more NSF instructors who know nothing today. -
those are out-standing soldier, are youOriginally posted by AhJun:but also got pple after bmt get posted to such units what
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scout camp...Originally posted by erijazz:You call the Recruits Basic Military Training today lowest lifeform, torture and no welfare???
You muz be kidding me...
It seem like a boy scout camp to me.
something like that...but more pt only...
but those pt are NOTHING LA...
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wat kind of inspiration?Originally posted by airgrinder:Heard it from my boss after he watched 300. Could be something from there that gave him the inspiration. keke -
Careful with that - standing outside may be considered excessive punishment.Originally posted by Quiet Guy:those are out-standing soldier, are you 
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I know what you mean, but if you read way back to the beginning, people have been trying to reassure him.Originally posted by chanjyj:maybe we shouldn't be so blunt. (I've also been guilty of that in previous posts). I've been thinking about his topic for a while, and got a feeling he's just very scared, and that made him post all these stuff. The tone of his writing may not really reflect his true feelings. (He's worried about his physical and emotional welfare when the time comes for him to enter NS)
Most people lack the ability to selectively detach themselves from feelings and emotions. I think he is probably one of them. If everyone tell him to "just face it" (and all the other harsh comments) I think he will really be miserable when he enters NS, recalling what we said to him. No sort of "comfort zone" where he can remember that before NS, people have told him that "it's not so bad after all, just endure for a little while".
(Yes, I've come to the conclusion his is pre-NS).
To protect someone, sometimes you cannot put them in a comfort zone forever.. if he can't take it online, he's going to be worse off when the instructor starts yelling at him.
I was like him before I enlisted, but thankfully I had people to tell me the reality inside. -
Originally posted by Gedanken:Careful with that - standing outside may be considered excessive punishment.