Just read the whole of revelation and...
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got some questions.
Why does God chain Satan up and let it out 1000 years later so that it can fight again?
Why doesn't God just snap the unbelievers into non-existence, but he has to torture them with cruel ways like that? -
bcoz he is bored to death?
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de way u say it, maciam like god like bdsm.
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Revelation was written to encourage the suffering church in the first century A.D. The book will make better sense if the reader put himself in the shoes of a persecuted christian.Originally posted by Suicine:got some questions.
Why does God chain Satan up and let it out 1000 years later so that it can fight again?
Why doesn't God just snap the unbelievers into non-existence, but he has to torture them with cruel ways like that?
Many have tried to answer the questions you raised, but so far i have yet to come across a really convincing one. So instead of trying to answer your questions, let me share with you my experience when reading revelations.
When reading it as a student, i struggle to make sense of all the imageries and stuff. But when reading it as a christian going through painful moments, it gave me hope. Perhaps, it was to be read as such. -
i believe God helps those with strong determination and will power.
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So it's just a story? If not why do christians keep saying that God is good all the time?
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wow! it gives you hope thinking of other people going through intense suffering?Originally posted by nukewatch:Revelation was written to encourage the suffering church in the first century A.D. The book will make better sense if the reader put himself in the shoes of a persecuted christian.
Many have tried to answer the questions you raised, but so far i have yet to come across a really convincing one. So instead of trying to answer your questions, let me share with you my experience when reading revelations.
When reading it as a student, i struggle to make sense of all the imageries and stuff. But when reading it as a christian going through painful moments, it gave me hope. Perhaps, it was to be read as such. -
God is good.. but He is also just.... there's a penalty for the evil man does... and the choice they made.... thus the sufferings described in revelation... i would suggest tat u start with a easier book in the bible to have a better understanding of the gospel...Originally posted by Suicine:So it's just a story? If not why do christians keep saying that God is good all the time?
there are some good bible studies books on revelation which would probably help u ... cheers
btw, it's not just a story... it's a prophecy of things to come...
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are disbelievers evil?
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believers can also be evil (the one typing this included) but Christ, the merciful Savior paid the price for it all.Originally posted by Suicine:are disbelievers evil? -
so not believing itself is not evil? why must they be tortured then?
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man ain't evil... but all man did sinned and fall short of God's intended glory.. tat's why we need forgiveness from God...Originally posted by Suicine:are disbelievers evil? -
i gather u ain't a believer?Originally posted by Suicine:so not believing itself is not evil? why must they be tortured then?
cos they delibrately refuse to receive the free gift of salvation that Jesus has proved by paying for their sins, so they have to pay for their own sins...
hope i managed to ans at least part of ur qns.... but God is merciful, He is witholding judgement so that ppl can have the chance to say yes to Him... -
no, it gives me hope thinking that sufferings will come to an end.Originally posted by Suicine:wow! it gives you hope thinking of other people going through intense suffering?
None of us is unbiased in our interpretation of what we read; we will some how bring along our background, current situation etc. when we read the bible. As an unbeliever or even a christian living comfortably in a country having religious freedom, one will tend to focus on the judgements mentioned in revelation. I have serious doubts that that is what the author of Revelations try to communicate. But for a suffering christian under physical or spiritual oppression, he will tend to focus on the final truimph of Christ. That, I believe is the central message.
btw, when i mentioned imageries, i meant images, not imaginations. Sorry for any confusion. -
sins are caused by adam eating the fruit. how is it fair that we are gonna pay for that small little mistake with such cruel punishments?
if you say that adam has shown that humans have the tendency to commit sin, why did God not fix the defective humans?
if you talk about free will, an omnipotent God will always have ways to help everyone not sin without compromising their free will isnt it?
what about those that have lived all their lives happy with their own religion? christianity doesn't stand out a lot you know. Is that fair to them? It's like giving you a few treasure chests and if you don't pick the one with treasure you go to hell. -
This is my personal opinion.Originally posted by Suicine:got some questions.
Why does God chain Satan up and let it out 1000 years later so that it can fight again?
Why doesn't God just snap the unbelievers into non-existence, but he has to torture them with cruel ways like that?
When Satan is chained up and thrown into the bottomless pit, that 1000 years is the Millennium Kingdom where the Lord Jesus will rule on earth.
The pre-quel is that the 7 years tribulation had just ended with the Battle of Armageddon. Many people in the world had perished and those that recieve the mark of the beast were also cast into hell. Only believers will enter the Millennium Kingdom.
The Millennium Kingdom will thus be a so-called perfect world where there will be no killing, no temptation of sin because Satan is gone, maybe people will live as long as people did in Noah's time - 900 years. It is like the final litmus test that God have set to see how man will be in the perfect environment before accepting them into heaven.
Alas, because of man sinful nature, the children that will be concieve by the first citizens (believers) of the Millennium Kindom, even though there is no temptation of sin, even though the Lord himself is ruling the world, they will still not believe.
In the end God will set Satan free after 1000 years and have a final purging of everyone, including Satan, that have an unbelieving heart. -
in that case there will always be unbelievers, so why bother doing any purging at all?
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because God will not allow sinners to be in heaven.
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so he purposely made defective humans so that he can purge and purge? and send to to hell for eternity?
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don't know about that....Originally posted by Suicine:so he purposely made defective humans so that he can purge and purge? and send to to hell for eternity?
say, you are creating something, would you consider perfection, something that does what you say or something that is free from your influence but free to choose.
It all depends on how you define defective and perfection.
I have two kids, but no way would I want my kids to do what I want them to do. I mentor them to do the right things (whether I succeed or not is another matter). Some of these right things include challenging my (me as a person) beliefs. They listen to songs that I don't like, play games I don't understand, yet they respect me and my wife.
If I want my kids to do what I say, I have a remote control car that does exactly the same thing.
So reality check, are my kids perfect or defective?
Back to the topic, Revelation is written in a form of imagery, by a guy called John. Apparently he had seen a vision and had written down what he'd experience. It stands out from the rest of the Bible in that it is a picture of the future. What the imagery means is a highly debatable issue. Theologians had for decades tried to explain the meaning and many books had attempted to give meaning to the images there. So please don't take it literally. -
gosh.. if i have a kid who rebelled against me. i don't think i have the heart to just disown him just like that, a snap of a finger.. let alone God who is more perfect than me! trust me. i've done more than my fair share of rebellion.. and seriously thankful He never gave up, but just waited! God loves us!
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What I understand is that at end times, we have to choose which side we have to follow, God's side or Satan's side? There will be a war between God and Satan (Armageddon). For those who are unbelievers or don't side for God, that time will be full of fear, panic among the people, Satan will convince and deceive them in order to side them.Originally posted by Suicine:so not believing itself is not evil? why must they be tortured then?
One thing we have to know is, the victory belongs to God and Satan will be casted down to the lake of fire in hell forever.
p/s - correct me if I am wrong.. Thanks -
Do you consider those things your kids did as sins that warrant hell?Originally posted by Chin Eng:don't know about that....
say, you are creating something, would you consider perfection, something that does what you say or something that is free from your influence but free to choose.
It all depends on how you define defective and perfection.
I have two kids, but no way would I want my kids to do what I want them to do. I mentor them to do the right things (whether I succeed or not is another matter). Some of these right things include challenging my (me as a person) beliefs. They listen to songs that I don't like, play games I don't understand, yet they respect me and my wife.
If I want my kids to do what I say, I have a remote control car that does exactly the same thing.
So reality check, are my kids perfect or defective? -
I believe no, if i am believer of Christ, no matter what i had done wrong and i truely ask for His forgiveness, i know that God wont send me to hell.Originally posted by Suicine:Do you consider those things your kids did as sins that warrant hell?
Then i believe u will ask, how about non- believer. Well..that, i really leave it back to God. as far as i could recall, christians are judge by using the book of life. ( pls correct me if i am wrong, dun wan to give wrong info
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Can i ask u a few question, ( i mean no harm, just curious), did Buddha ever mention that anyone who believes in a Creator cannot achieve nirvana?
2) Is it really nature that decides who could achieve nirvana and who can't ? ( if not nature then who ?)
3) Is it if one can't achieve nirvana one will be send down to earth again, and be animals..if good then become prince?. If good i thought should achieve nirvana?
4) Then will mother theresa achieve nirvana in the view of Buddhism?
Just curious. mean no harm. Hope u could answer me. Thx -
I am no buddhist, but I try to answer it if I can. These answers r just my personal interpretation of buddhism
Can i ask u a few question, ( i mean no harm, just curious), did Buddha ever mention that anyone who believes in a Creator cannot achieve nirvana?
No, u can believe in a creator and still achieve nirvana.. but then believing in a lie is clearly a case of ignorance, therefore giving him a lesser probability of completely realising the truth.Is it really nature that decides who could achieve nirvana and who can't ? ( if not nature then who ?)
No, it is not decided by nature. It is by your own self. U reap wat u sow. No being is deciding your fate or future.Is it if one can't achieve nirvana one will be send down to earth again, and be animals..if good then become prince?. If good i thought should achieve nirvana?
If he is good, he can reincarnate to become human or become higher beings as well. To achieve nirvana, u appear to need to realise the complete truth. Good and realise truth seems to be on a different categoryThen will mother theresa achieve nirvana in the view of Buddhism?
Not likely since she appears to be lost. Hopefully she can reincarnate to a very good life or to a higher level of being after her death...i don't think i have the heart to just disown him just like that, a snap of a finger.. let alone God who is more perfect than me!
Ehh.. he do disown the people who is dead in Noah's ark story, the people of the other tribes who is killed by him and the countless egytians who died because they r loyal to their king.So reality check, are my kids perfect or defective
They r normal. The question is how do u respond to your kids if one day they convert themselves to be muslim or buddhist ? Do u go and throw them into boiling water or melting lava just because they do not listen to u ? It is normal for people to have their own free will and do things tat is not wat u expected. Respect tat right, and let them live a life they desire ! Not go around saying u have free will but if u choose to disobey me, u get to be punished ! It is like a person who fail to program a remote control car properly and destroy them if they fail to be controlled !
Frankly.. I don't understand why does people believe in revelation... to me it appears to be a story plot for a video game or something...