Giving 10% - Stated clearly in the Bible. (CHC just obeying)
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Originally posted by BroInChrist:
Tithing is stated in Malachi, sure. My question is not whether tithing is taught in the Bible but whether the Bible teaches that Christians must tithe. Can you give a New Testament passage that teaches that prescriptively or descriptively?http://sgforums.com/forums/1381/topics/455567?page=4
Seems they or he discount whatever stated in old testament. wahahahhaha , why then include old testament in the bible when they are of no relevance after Jesus arrived in New Testament. No wonder they are in strong disagreement with Catholics for Catholics are still practising old testament stuff.
Tsk tsk tsk, what a confusion. Contradiction as usual.
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Originally posted by mancha:
From what I know is that the good Christians says that it is not necessary to give at all, and if want to give, give as you wish, not necessary 10%, can be more can be less, up to you.
It is the kia see, kia su Christians that say must give 10% or more, in order to be true, blessed or correct.
Of course then there is the businessman, who says you must give a).10% b). alms c). the first fruits (i.e. first pay, first bonus, increment) and d). love gift and lastly e). your shirt and trousers and throw in your flat.
There is one verse in thebible that says be cheerful when you give. If one is unhappy to give then don't give. Anyway, not everyone has then means to give 10 percent.
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then next time, you give birth to 10 children, then you unwind your 10th child.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unwind_(novel)
Sounds reasonable, eh?
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No link.
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Originally posted by SJS6638:
No link.
I know, no link. I hope you will be able to get my message.
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Pastors used Malachi to preach on 10 percent tithing and some christians disagree on this as is from old testament. Is like slapping own faces. Funny. hahahahahah! Comical! hahahahahahah! The christians cannot even agree with the basic cause confusion to other non christians. hahahahahahha! ho ho siew!
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Originally posted by SJS6638:
There is one verse in thebible that says be cheerful when you give. If one is unhappy to give then don't give. Anyway, not everyone has then means to give 10 percent.
If I am not mistaken, it started in the Old Testament when someone ask how much to give to the temple.
It was like if you got 10 goats or cattle, give 1. That was easy, but 20 give 2, 100 give 10, 1000 give 100, the face become longer, that why the preachers say be cherfull when you give.
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DEpends on how the christians interpret it. Want to interpret basing on personal desire or after God's will or words.
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Give from you heart to anyone who needs your help regardless of race language or religion.Give what you have not what you don't have. But we don't have to be recklessly silly in giving. Wmust alle be discerning even in our giving.
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Originally posted by SJS6638:
Originally posted by BroInChrist:
http://sgforums.com/forums/1381/topics/455567?page=4
Seems they or he discount whatever stated in old testament. wahahahhaha , why then include old testament in the bible when they are of no relevance after Jesus arrived in New Testament. No wonder they are in strong disagreement with Catholics for Catholics are still practising old testament stuff.
Tsk tsk tsk, what a confusion. Contradiction as usual.
Wrong. I am not discounting the Scriptures, but properly understanding it. Just because something is no longer relevant under the New Covenant does not mean you take it out. Everything in the Bible is there for our instruction. The ritual and civil laws of Israel are not applicable to us, but they teach us about God's holiness.
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Originally posted by Tcmc:
Erm, facts are proven, legends are not?
Like would you be angry if someone pushes his belief in Snow White as fact?
Which fact of "molecules to microbiologists" evolution is proven?
Fallacy of hypothesis contrary to fact. Is anyone pushing Snow White as fact?
But let's just take your argument for now. Would you be angry if someone pushes his belief that kissing a frog can instantly turn it into a prince as fact? I supposed you would, if you are consistent. It's fiction, a fairy tale. But how come you can add "millions of years" i.e. kiss the frog for a million years to get a prince you get to call it fact and science? You get the drift?
No amount of kisses can change a frog to a prince. Likewise, no amount of time can turn nonliving matter to life, or simple organisms to complex human beings. From where does the new genetic information come from for each supposed gradual step of evolution? Mutations presuppose the existence of genetic information, where did that come from? Natural selection is more a culling effect than a creative mind selecting "good" mutations to evolve higher and higher.
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Originally posted by SJS6638:
Pastors used Malachi to preach on 10 percent tithing and some christians disagree on this as is from old testament. Is like slapping own faces. Funny. hahahahahah! Comical! hahahahahahah! The christians cannot even agree with the basic cause confusion to other non christians. hahahahahahha! ho ho siew!
Atheists also disagree among themselves, so why don't you laugh at fellow atheists?
Disagreements are inevitable, it's how we disagree that matters more. Disagreement presupposes the existence of objective truths. So either tithing is Christian or it is not. Disagreement does not mean both views are right. In any case, this issue is not a basic issue or a core tenet of the faith. You don't lose your salvation by disagreeing on tithing. Salvation is not tied to tithing.
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Originally posted by SJS6638:
There is one verse in thebible that says be cheerful when you give. If one is unhappy to give then don't give. Anyway, not everyone has then means to give 10 percent.
Which verse?
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Originally posted by BroInChrist:
Which verse?
Its a shame that you should ask... 2 Cor 9:7.
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Originally posted by Bikeforceful:
are we farmers? what first fruit? and the Bible didn't specially say must give to this or that church wat! if there is a need and I see a need in someone , I can even give 20% or 30%. But if my church wants fully ducted air con and granite benches and marble flooring whilst there are millions in this world starving....you think i will give my even 1%? God gave us a brain to think lah!
Bikeforceful,
You are saying to read the bible in context. And because the first fruits verse is 4000 years ago, it's not applicable.
THen the whole bible is not applicable, going by your logic. The new testament is 2000 years old. And the writers were talking about things that happen 2000 years ago.
So it shouldnt be applicable too.
I am going by your logic of texts becoming not applicable because it's old.
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Originally posted by Joe 328:
"To me as a bystander, that is just confusing."
That's not my problem, that's YOURS. I had to face that problem too. Why don't you go find out?
Joe,
My problem? I thought your bible says you have a duty to convince the CHristian Deity is the only true Deity? And the blood will be on your hands if you mislead nonchristians with your current behavior?
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Originally posted by SJS6638:
Pastors used Malachi to preach on 10 percent tithing and some christians disagree on this as is from old testament. Is like slapping own faces. Funny. hahahahahah! Comical! hahahahahahah! The christians cannot even agree with the basic cause confusion to other non christians. hahahahahahha! ho ho siew!
Agreed. And it's not just malachi.
Some christians say its not applicable, but then still use other parts of the OT.
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Originally posted by BroInChrist:
Wrong. I am not discounting the Scriptures, but properly understanding it. Just because something is no longer relevant under the New Covenant does not mean you take it out. Everything in the Bible is there for our instruction. The ritual and civil laws of Israel are not applicable to us, but they teach us about God's holiness.
BIC,
Sure. your way of "properly understanding" is to pick out those OT verses you think are applicable and convenient and then chuck those inconvenient OT verses away.
If you claim that Jesus death has done away the old testament and old laws, why still use the ten commandments?Why still obey the sabbath? Why still use anti-gay laws in the OT? Why still quote from the OT if the laws are not applicable?
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Originally posted by Aneslayer:
Its a shame that you asked... 2 Cor 9:7.
It's a shame that you did not read properly.
"Each of you should give what you have decided in your heart to give, not reluctantly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver."
So where is the part that says be cheerful when you give? Not happy then don't give?
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Originally posted by BroInChrist:
It's a shame that you did not read properly.
"Each of you should give what you have decided in your heart to give, not reluctantly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver."
So where is the part that says be cheerful when you give? Not happy then don't give?
If one has decided in his/ her heart to give nothing, one will not be happy to give anything. Not happy, don't give. (which was what my ex-father-inlaw told me.)
Why did you ask something you obviously know (2Cor 9:7)?
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Originally posted by Tcmc:
Joe,
My problem? I thought your bible says you have a duty to convince the CHristian Deity is the only true Deity? And the blood will be on your hands if you mislead nonchristians with your current behavior?
Hmmm... Blood on my hands huh. I should be scared, no? :-) Come on. Why the give someone the thought of prospective condemnation? Did you learn that from your pre-atheist life in church? So much that it was the reason for you to turn to atheism because you couldn't reconcile it? Give me the Gospel. Come on!
*shrugs*
What paradox. Coming from someone who doesn't believe in God and uses god to scare me. According to you, god doesn't exist and therefore, your threats are just like your beliefs. Non-existent. I might actually be scared if you truly believe in God though.
Wanna try it and then scare me again and see how? Try leh. :-)
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God loves a cheerful giver.
God dun love non cheerful giver, then what the different of God and human especially loanshark etc
Jesus only survived 3 years of his noble preaching to benefit mankind before being murdered. It's doubtful that Jesus will prescribe a medicine of10% commandment in Bible as Jesus knew insightfully that there are more less fortunate than affordable to fulfil that 10% for end to meet in a capitalism and materialism world. Besides, heaven is beyond dollars & cents, Jesus knows very well. Noble lord like Jesus surpassed worldly desire demanding for 10 percents, so that those contributed ascend to heaven and those defied bible 10% commandment descend into hell chancelessly for heavenly bliss and suffering in hell eternally, for both believers & non believers? Bible is saying that everyone heart of love is beyond materialism basis and will surely ascend to heaven if one aware and radically developing this love.
In buddhism scripture :
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地���本愿� -
Originally posted by BroInChrist:
Atheists also disagree among themselves, so why don't you laugh at fellow atheists?
Disagreements are inevitable, it's how we disagree that matters more. Disagreement presupposes the existence of objective truths. So either tithing is Christian or it is not. Disagreement does not mean both views are right. In any case, this issue is not a basic issue or a core tenet of the faith. You don't lose your salvation by disagreeing on tithing. Salvation is not tied to tithing.
BIC
I have addressed this before to you. It seems nothing is getting into your head and you choose to not read.
It's perfectly fine that atheists disagree because we are all humans with different beliefs.
But the situation turns strange if two groups of people claim to believe in the same all-knowing god, hear from the same all-knowing god, pray to the same all-knowing god, quote from the same infallible book, but come out with two different sets of beliefs and interpretations.
It's strange because either this god is telling the two groups differently or the same infallible book can have multiple interpretations (and remember, two groups claim the same god guide them in their interpretation)
See the difference why one is normal and one is strange?
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Originally posted by Joe 328:
Hmmm... Blood on my hands huh. I should be scared, no? :-) Come on. Why the give someone the thought of prospective condemnation? Did you learn that from your pre-atheist life in church? So much that it was the reason for you to turn to atheism because you couldn't reconcile it? Give me the Gospel. Come on!
*shrugs*
What paradox. Coming from someone who doesn't believe in God and uses god to scare me. According to you, god doesn't exist and therefore, your threats are just like your beliefs. Non-existent. I might actually be scared if you truly believe in God though.
Wanna try it and then scare me again and see how? Try leh. :-)
Joe
I am just trying to remind you to practice what you believe. I don't believe in your god, angels and demons but I can remind you to practice what you believe and also respect your beliefs in these entities.
It seems like you forgot about your duty to convince unbelievers gently?