A Defense of the Bible
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Originally posted by laurence82:
some choicebelieve in my religion or go to hell
you believe in hell?
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Originally posted by sgdiehard:
you believe in hell?
i'll believe in hell, if i believe i was given free - will, and yet to have two choices -
Originally posted by laurence82:
i'll believe in hell, if i believe i was given free - will, and yet to have two choicesIf you don't believe in hell, then there is no consequence to you if you don't believe in the God who tell you what is hell. It is not a choice you need to make.
The freedom is already there, It is your choice, to believe in God or not, which god to believe, which religion to follow, ....you can choose to believe by faith, see then you believe, proven then you believe...
You have a lot of choices, not just 2.
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Originally posted by sgdiehard:
If you don't believe in hell, then there is no consequence to you if you don't believe in the God who tell you what is hell. It is not a choice you need to make.
The freedom is already there, It is your choice, to believe in God or not, which god to believe, which religion to follow, ....you can choose to believe by faith, see then you believe, proven then you believe...
You have a lot of choices, not just 2.
two path but with freewill
i am reminded of henry ford
"Any customer can have a car painted any colour that he wants so long as it is black".
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Originally posted by laurence82:
two path but with freewill
i am reminded of henry ford
"Any customer can have a car painted any colour that he wants so long as it is black".
to buy a ford car is your choice, and if you make that choice, you get black car.
choose toyota, honda, mazda....you can have any color you like.
Henry will respect you for having a colorful jap car, and you respect him by leaving his ford car black.
The choice is till yours; with a little respect, the road will be a lot more beautiful, black is still a color!
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Originally posted by sgdiehard:
to buy a ford car is your choice, and if you make that choice, you get black car.
choose toyota, honda, mazda....you can have any color you like.
Henry will respect you for having a colorful jap car, and you respect him by leaving his ford car black.
The choice is till yours; with a little respect, the road will be a lot more beautiful, black is still a color!
u can have any colour as long as its blacku can have freewill but if you dont choose me aka god, you go to hell
if people are more aware of advertising gimmicks back then, henry ford would be ridiculed endlessly
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Originally posted by laurence82:
u can have any colour as long as its blacku can have freewill but if you dont choose me aka god, you go to hell
if people are more aware of advertising gimmicks back then, henry ford would be ridiculed endlessly
what do you expect from a ford salesman, telling you that colorful jap car is better? of course he will push for you to buy a ford, the one and only one...hahahaha
so what has a black ford car done to you? remember this, your unhappy experience is not with ford car, it is the person behind the wheel;
for me, I have driven a Ford, it is a good and reliable car.
if you think ford is a lousy car, you should stay far far away when you see want on the road. happy driving.
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again, u totally miss the whole point
if i think there only two choices, i dont have to give rubbish about freewill
just give the answer straight and true
which unfortunately many people cant do
lolz
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1. All religions talk about heavens and hells. But sgdiehard, BIC and despondent have failed so show why anyone should PREFER their religion over other religions.
2. All religions claim their Gods are the only true ones. But sgdiehard, BIC and despondent have failed so show why anyone should PREFER their religion over other religions.
3. All religious books claim that they are divinely inspired. But sgdiehard, BIC and despondent have failed so show why anyone should PREFER their religion over other religions.
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When one wears a Badge (organized religion) - be it Islam (Muslim), Hinduism(Hindu), Buddhism(Buddhist), Christianity (Christian) - one is merely a prisoner- one is bound by so many tenents/???. It limits one in many ways. It is an unfreeing experience, one is in bondage. However, when one is BEING Mohd, Being Krishna(?), Being Buddha or Being Christ - one is flowing and one is relating to oneself and vice versa. The first ripple of being ...??? emanates from what one is being. One embodies (Buddha-consciousness, Christ-consciousness or ...) consciousness of being eg Christ or .... one is free and one is longer bound to .... Sadly, in today's organized religion it is more of rituals and dogmas and doctrines. One is no longer flowing one is merely trapped. I say trapped cos how can beliefs (inherently binding) allow one to expereince or partake of another existentially! The seekers of truth unlearn and discover what comes as it is. Beliefs are an invention. Real religion (religiouness) is one who is being loving, being kind, being grateful and I m sure many of us have across such a person. He or she has arrived. He/she has not alienated the ''God'' within him/herself. Many today are so alienated they go around searching looking for ''God'' (call whatever it may suit u) in a church , temple, mosque or ... When one cannot find ''God'' (the name does not matter) within him/herself one cannot find it in a church, temple , mosque or ... even in scriptures, sutras or texts. One is already enlightened, it is awaiting recognition. How can recognition happen when one is leaning on somehting outside of one''self"' and hope to be ... (enlightened not in the sense of Buddhism or Christianity or ...) This is the predicament of many. It is a squirrel in a cage - just going around and around. An inward journey is the essence of being religious. What is true liberates, what is a belief binds! The former is a discovery (recoginising of ) and the latter an invention. All human beings long to be free. I would surmise and dare say that only love frees and of course it presupposes the one who purports to love is him/herself free on the inside. Love that is being kind, love that is being emphathetic. One can go on n spread one's ''worldly'' riches more and more and more, one can spread one's empire of political domination, another can (and may) spread one's religious empire - but it is all the same! The desire is to manipulate, to dominate more and more people. Is not this politics behind the cloak of religiosity? One who understands is conscious has no need for a power trip! Beware the pious egoism. PS - Has anyone questioned or even wondered how come there is a Christian God, A Hindu God or ... ? Existence is non-dual. Human mind is so divided and hence the utter confusion.' One who is being religious is godliness - a fragrance of being ....??? ................. As for being in Heaven and Hell - it is a myth! .It is not geographical and it never was. It is within one and a reflection of one's state of being. Being eg, negative, loving, accepting, grateful, kind or ... Two prisoners were holed up in a cell and one night there was moonlight outside of the prison. One looked at it and partook of and deligted in the moon. The other cursed cos all he could see were the prison bars on the cell's windows. Same situation but two existential expereinces!
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Bible is not applicable to all, only to some chosen ones. Favouritism ! tsk tsk tsk~!
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Originally posted by Fugazzi:
When one wears a Badge (organized religion) – be it Islam (Muslim), Hinduism(Hindu), Buddhism(Buddhist), Christianity (Christian) – one is merely a prisoner- one is bound by so many tenents/???. It limits one in many ways. It is an unfreeing experience, one is in bondage.
However, when one is BEING Mohd, Being Krishna(?), Being Buddha or Being Christ – one is flowing and one is relating to oneself and vice versa. The first ripple of being …??? emanates from what one is being. One embodies (Buddha-consciousness, Christ-consciousness or …
consciousness of being eg Christ or …. one is free and one is
longer bound to ….Sadly, in today’s organized religion it is more of rituals and dogmas and doctrines. One is no longer flowing one is merely trapped. I say trapped cos how can beliefs (inherently binding) allow one to expereince or partake of another existentially! The seekers of truth unlearn and discover what comes as it is. Beliefs are an invention.
Real religion (religiouness) is one who is being loving, being kind, being grateful and I m sure many of us have across such a person. He or she has arrived. He/she has not alienated the ’’God’’ within him/herself. Many today are so alienated they go around searching looking for ’’God’’ (call whatever it may suit u) in a church , temple, mosque or …
When one cannot find ’’God’’ (the name does not matter) within him/herself one cannot find it in a church, temple , mosque or … even in scriptures, sutras or texts.
One is already enlightened, it is awaiting recognition. How can recognition happen when one is leaning on somehting outside of one’‘selfâ€�’ and hope to be … (enlightened not in the sense of Buddhism or Christianity or …This is the predicament of many. It is a squirrel in a cage – just going around and around. An inward journey is the essence of being religious. What is true liberates, what is a belief binds! The former is a discovery (recoginising of ) and the latter an invention.
All human beings long to be free. I would surmise and dare say that only love frees and of course it presupposes the one who purports to love is him/herself free on the inside. Love that is being kind, love that is being emphathetic.One can go on n spread one’s ’’worldly’’ riches more and more and
more, one can spread one’s empire of political domination, another can (and may) spread one’s religious empire – but it is all the same! The desire is to manipulate, to dominate more and more people. Is not this politics behind the cloak of religiosity? One who understands is conscious has no need for a power trip! Beware the pious egoism.PS – Has anyone questioned or even wondered how come there is a Christian God, A Hindu God or … ? Existence is non-dual. Human mind is so divided and hence the utter confusion.’ One who is being religious is godliness – a fragrance of being ….???
.................As for being in Heaven and Hell – it is a myth! .It is not geographical and it never was. It is within one and a reflection of one’s state of being. Being eg, negative, loving, accepting, grateful, kind or …
Two prisoners were holed up in a cell and one night there was moonlight outside of the prison. One looked at it and partook of and deligted in the moon. The other cursed cos all he could see were the prison bars on the cell’s windows.
Same situation but two existential expereinces!
On what basis do you say heaven and he'll is myth? Jesus certainly did not teach that. As for the two prisoners, regardless of what they perceive the moon or how they perceive it to be, the objective reality is that they are both in a cell. Question for you, are you caught in bondage to your moralising posts here that does not seem grounded in any objective truth? -
When ones sees with lens of the past - aka knowledge - one is bound to miss , what more is there to say when the programming/conditioning is awash in one's being. Like I said before, ur predicament seems to be that of wanting to see what ones to see, hearing what ones to hear - seeing and hearing with the mind is a limited expereince. One's intuitive heart never lies - self-honesty and the willingness to see what is as ti is or accept what is not as it is being. Jesus, Krishna, Mohd and .. were all a synthesis of bondange and freedom. A transcendence of both mind and body! U can go on labelling me , chiding me, get angry, .... that does not cancel out what is (Isness). Like I mentioned before, I talk about floodlite and u seem mired in spotlight! Whatever it is, it is so simple, if it does nto resonate with u, ignore or lump it.
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Originally posted by Fugazzi:
When ones sees with lens of the past – aka knowledge – one is bound to miss , what more is there to say when the programming/conditioning is awash in one’s being.
Like I said before, ur predicament seems to be that of wanting to see what ones to see, hearing what ones to hear – seeing and hearing with the mind is a limited expereince.
One’s intuitive heart never lies – self-honesty and the willingness to see what is as ti is or accept what is not as it is being.
Jesus, Krishna, Mohd and .. were all a synthesis of bondange and freedom. A transcendence of both mind and body!
U can go on labelling me , chiding me, get angry, .... that does not cancel out what is (Isness).Like I mentioned before, I talk about floodlite and u seem mired in spotlight!
Whatever it is, it is so simple, if it does nto resonate with u, ignore or lump it.
Question is, are you engaging in special pleading when you seem to put yourself above those limitations that you see the rest of us are hopelessly in bondage too? -
Muse over this – A pickpocket was trailing a gem merchant and wanted very much to get hold of this gem – he tried all means and ways and to no avail and in spite of that was still trying; all this time the merchant knew what he was up to and allowed the thief to be and when an opportunity rose he dropped the precious gem into the pocket of the thief. After a lapse of some moments, the pickpocket out frustration blurted out to the merchant that he was a professional in pickpocketing and queried as to where is the gem as it could not even find it in the merchant’s [person]! To that the merchant replied – I put it where u would least look for it – IN your pocket! This allegory illustrates the predicament of searching in the ’’wrong’’ places and hoping to find …. Eg :When I practice a particular …. thinking that I am a particular …. looking for a particular … eg merits or to arrive someday somewhere I m merely spinning on my fictional ’’self’’ – I am playing mind games. As long as one has an image of what God, Buddha or englightenment, awakening or ... is or should be it is already a concept and when it is premised on a concept one is simply going to be like a squirrel in a cage! AS LONG AS ANYONE IS LOOKING OUTSIDE OF OF ONESELF FOR THIS ''GOD'' OR ..... BE IT CHRISTIANITY, BE IT ISLAM, BE IT HINDUISM - IT DOES NOT MATTER. THE JOURNEY inwards makes all the difference. It is fine to use the bible, koran or ... the latter are mere devices pointing to what is true (not truth) and one may partake of Jesus or Krhisna or Buddha - cos they all were spiritual expressions in different forms. They were formlessness in a human body. And they were all an invitation to partake of the well of Being! Of course, the thirst has to be there for one to risk it all in spite of the fears, doubts and .... How to know which is true or who is misleading or who is being truly a ... priest or pastor or ..... he/she sees,( in this instance, Jesus) in all forms and in the formless. A Christian who goes to an Imam( Muslin) and is accepted despite him not being a Muslim is inclusive, there is no discrimination. Same goes for pastor (or ....) who is inclusive of anyone in spite of his cirumstances, creed or ..... this is the essence of being religious. Of course, there are many who would disagree but it is ok to disagree. I am not asking anyone to subcrribe or embrace, it is merely to introspect n ...
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Originally posted by laurence82:
again, u totally miss the whole point
if i think there only two choices, i dont have to give rubbish about freewill
just give the answer straight and true
which unfortunately many people cant do
lolz
If it is henry ford's car, he gives one color, black.
get a jap car.
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Originally posted by Tcmc:
1. All religions talk about heavens and hells. But sgdiehard, BIC and despondent have failed so show why anyone should PREFER their religion over other religions.
2. All religions claim their Gods are the only true ones. But sgdiehard, BIC and despondent have failed so show why anyone should PREFER their religion over other religions.
3. All religious books claim that they are divinely inspired. But sgdiehard, BIC and despondent have failed so show why anyone should PREFER their religion over other religions.
we are different from you....our religion is not your religion!!
your preference is your preference, don't change because of us.
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Originally posted by Tcmc:
1. All religions talk about heavens and hells. But sgdiehard, BIC and despondent have failed so show why anyone should PREFER their religion over other religions.
2. All religions claim their Gods are the only true ones. But sgdiehard, BIC and despondent have failed so show why anyone should PREFER their religion over other religions.
3. All religious books claim that they are divinely inspired. But sgdiehard, BIC and despondent have failed so show why anyone should PREFER their religion over other religions.
Tcmc, Still hiding behind other religions? Up till now you still have not answered why I should prefer atheism over theism, and Christianity in particular. -
Originally posted by sgdiehard:
you believe in hell?
you believe in santa claus and tooth fairy?
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Originally posted by BroInChrist:
Tcmc, Still hiding behind other religions? Up till now you still have not answered why I should prefer atheism over theism, and Christianity in particular.is he your answering machine or facimile?
the same can be said of you, when you have not answered questions being put forth.
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Originally posted by Jacky Woo:
is he your answering machine or facimile?
the same can be said of you, when you have not answered questions being put forth.
Just don't want to feed the troll too much, including you.
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Originally posted by Jacky Woo:
you believe in santa claus and tooth fairy?
No. do you?
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Originally posted by laurence82:
two path but with freewill
i am reminded of henry ford
"Any customer can have a car painted any colour that he wants so long as it is black".
Hahaha!
That's a good joke ! -
Originally posted by Demon Bane:
Hahaha!
That's a good joke !I think the sober truth behind that is that the creator sets the rules. Henry Ford made his cars the way he wants it. It's his prerogative since he is the creator. The choice is either to buy or not to buy his car. That choice is the buyer's freedom.
The same with God. He is the Creator so He sets the moral rules and criteria. The freedom of choice for man is whether he would choose to obey God or continue in sin. The Bible does not teach that man gets to choose heaven or hell. The Bible teaches that man is already dead in Adam and bound for hell UNLESS he repents and believes and cross over from death to life.
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Originally posted by Demon Bane:
Hahaha!
That's a good joke !the joke is on who, you or henry ford?
you want a ford car and you want to choose your own color, don't joke.
you want to sell me your car and you want me to accept black, don't joke.
the outsiders are the one laughing.