Originally posted by Tcmc:Definitely. Different religions make our country even more beautiful and diverse! On for religious freedom!!
You are on for religious freedom but not on for freedom to propagate religion????
Originally posted by BroInChrist:You are on for religious freedom but not on for freedom to propagate religion????
Always not reading huh?
I am ok with selling religion but as long as it doesnt offend other religions in the context of Singapore
Originally posted by Tcmc:Always not reading huh?
I am ok with selling religion but as long as it doesnt offend other religions in the context of Singapore
That poster by motoway, you OK with that kind of selling atheism? Anything you wanna say to motoway?
Originally posted by BroInChrist:Rooney,
Ah, finally someone get the message! Now, let's be clear on this, it seems that you are NOT quibbling on methodology here (be it street or door to door or flyers), but the CONTENT of the preaching. To you, it is insulting and degrading to say that truth is exclusive, that only one is right and the others are wrong. Is this your position? Please confirm.
what truth? christian truth or universal truth? depending on whom you ask, if you ask xtians, hell its the truth, but if you ask non christians, hell no. go think and fathom what is wrong with the message. if you do not think there is something inherently wrong in this message, then you are leaning towards christian extremism and fundamentalism and that is wrong, cos we are living in a secular society here.
Originally posted by Rooney_07:what truth? christian truth or universal truth? depending on whom you ask, if you ask xtians, hell its the truth, but if you ask non christians, hell no. go think and fathom what is wrong with the message. if you do not think there is something inherently wrong in this message, then you are leaning towards christian extremism and fundamentalism and that is wrong, cos we are living in a secular society here.
Rooney,
Truth is truth, Christian or not. All truths, if it be true at all, are by definition universal truths. 1+1=2 is true everywhere at all times. Christian or nonChristian must affirm this, if they are to align themselves to reality.
Originally posted by BroInChrist:Rooney,
Truth is truth, Christian or not. All truths, if it be true at all, are by definition universal truths. 1+1=2 is true everywhere at all times. Christian or nonChristian must affirm this, if they are to align themselves to reality
I knew you would say this. think about it, if other religions also said the same thing, how many truths you think is out there? if there are 100 religions all saying their truth, you cant have 100 separate truths right? so in essence, science is the arbiter of truth and sadly for you, the truth of the matter is that your truth is further away from the truth.
Originally posted by Rooney_07:I knew you would say this. think about it, if other religions also said the same thing, how many truths you think is out there? if there are 100 religions all saying their truth, you cant have 100 separate truths right? so in essence, science is the arbiter of truth and sadly for you, the truth of the matter is that your truth is further away from the truth.
Rooney,
I knew you would say this. But you are mistaken and confused about the notion of truth. 100 religions can say they have the truth, but the truth is that either all are wrong or only one is true. You said science is the arbiter of truth. Can you prove the truth of that claim? If you are a believer in relativism, then you have no grounds to say who is right or wrong, what is true or not. Unlike you, I am an absolutist. I am absolutely sure that there are absolutes in life, that some things are objective right and wrong, some things are objectively true and some things are objectively false.
Originally posted by BroInChrist:Rooney,
I knew you would say this. But you are mistaken and confused about the notion of truth. 100 religions can say they have the truth, but the truth is that either all are wrong or only one is true. You said science is the arbiter of truth. Can you prove the truth of that claim? If you are a believer in relativism, then you have no grounds to say who is right or wrong, what is true or not. Unlike you, I am an absolutist. I am absolutely sure that there are absolutes in life, that some things are objective right and wrong, some things are objectively true and some things are objectively false.
I think you still do not get what I am trying to convey here or you selectively want to reply what you want to say. any proof you say. well give proof for a start god exists first. if god exists and is absolute, why doesnt science, textbooks, journals, magazines all concurred? anyway you are a christian fundamentalist, let it be no mistake. in your mind and worldview, its your religion that claimed is the truth. if you think so, you are truly further away from the truth. the truth is, god was invented by man and you refuse to entertain any notion that challenges your religion otherwise.
Lucky this is 21st century. if this was the 19th century where science and technology were at most basic, I think creationism is accepted as the truth during that era as science back then was not as scientific as now. pity those people living then did not have our knowledge.
Originally posted by Rooney_07:I think you still do not get what I am trying to convey here or you selectively want to reply what you want to say. any proof you say. well give proof for a start god exists first. if god exists and is absolute, why doesnt science, textbooks, journals, magazines all concurred? anyway you are a christian fundamentalist, let it be no mistake. in your mind and worldview, its your religion that claimed is the truth. if you think so, you are truly further away from the truth. the truth is, god was invented by man and you refuse to entertain any notion that challenges your religion otherwise.
Lucky this is 21st century. if this was the 19th century where science and technology were at most basic, I think creationism is accepted as the truth during that era as science back then was not as scientific as now. pity those people living then did not have our knowledge.
Rooney,
1. I think you are still missing the point! Tell me, do you think the truth exists as to whether there is a God or not? Or do you entertain the silly view that what's true for you is not true for me?
2. Whether people concur on something or not is IRRELEVANT to the truth of that thing. A proposition (God exists) is either true or false. Call me names if you like, name-calling is not an argument for anything. I can call you a militant atheist also but that adds little to whether atheism is true or false. An atheist like you would insist that it is true that all religions are man-made and false. Do you for one second as an atheist would believe that there is a God? No. So why are you harping at me insisting that there is a God while you do not see that you are just as insistent that there is no God? You can insist on your beliefs being true but I cannot? Double standards!
3. You speak condescendingly of people who lived a couple of centuries. CS Lewis called your kind of attitude CHRONOLOGICAL SNOBBERY. You think people in the past are dimwits who simply believe what has been told them and who exhibit no semblance of rational or critical thinking. Again may I remind you that the science that you speak of owes it existence and rise to the Bible and its influence on the pioneers of modern science. Why do you think modern science arose and took root in the West? The East has its discoveries and inventions but somehow it never took the world by storm. You know why? Go find out.
Originally posted by BroInChrist:Rooney,
1. I think you are still missing the point! Tell me, do you think the truth exists as to whether there is a God or not? Or do you entertain the silly view that what's true for you is not true for me?
2. Whether people concur on something or not is IRRELEVANT to the truth of that thing. A proposition (God exists) is either true or false. Call me names if you like, name-calling is not an argument for anything. I can call you a militant atheist also but that adds little to whether atheism is true or false. An atheist like you would insist that it is true that all religions are man-made and false. Do you for one second as an atheist would believe that there is a God? No. So why are you harping at me insisting that there is a God while you do not see that you are just as insistent that there is no God? You can insist on your beliefs being true but I cannot? Double standards!
3. You speak condescendingly of people who lived a couple of centuries. CS Lewis called your kind of attitude CHRONOLOGICAL SNOBBERY. You think people in the past are dimwits who simply believe what has been told them and who exhibit no semblance of rational or critical thinking. Again may I remind you that the science that you speak of owes it existence and rise to the Bible and its influence on the pioneers of modern science. Why do you think modern science arose and took root in the West? The East has its discoveries and inventions but somehow it never took the world by storm. You know why? Go find out.
BIC
1. No one knows. You do not know and I do not know because we do not have all knowledge. I am not sure if there is a supreme being beyond our universe. BUT one thing I am sure is that the religions available today are not enough to represent this "supreme being"
Originally posted by Tcmc:
BIC
1. No one knows. You do not know and I do not know because we do not have all knowledge. I am not sure if there is a supreme being beyond our universe. BUT one thing I am sure is that the religions available today are not enough to represent this "supreme being"
Tcmc, I suppose it doesn't dawn on you that it was a lazy cop out on your part. Instead of finding out you just declare no one knows. If you are unsure if there is a God, then you should change your label to agnostic. Funny that you can be so sure in one instance when just the previous sentence you are unsure. I guess you suka suka decide what can be known?
Originally posted by BroInChrist:
Tcmc, I suppose it doesn't dawn on you that it was a lazy cop out on your part. Instead of finding out you just declare no one knows. If you are unsure if there is a God, then you should change your label to agnostic. Funny that you can be so sure in one instance when just the previous sentence you are unsure. I guess you suka suka decide what can be known?
Sorry I am not an agnostic. I am an atheist because of practical reasons.
1. I am an atheist to all Gods like how you are an atheist to the Magic Teapot, and other Gods in other religions.
2. Yes I think I have studied and read on the various religions more than you, so I came to a conclusion that the available religions today are not enough to represent this "supreme being" if he/she/it exists.
3. When I say there "might be a supreme being", I am being honest because I am not all knowing. But with the current lack of evidence, I conclude there are NO deities. Of course if one day evidence emerges, I will believe, but for now, no. But I wonder if you leave yourself some space to be possibly wrong about your own beliefs?
Originally posted by Tcmc:Sorry I am not an agnostic. I am an atheist because of practical reasons.
1. I am an atheist to all Gods like how you are an atheist to the Magic Teapot, and other Gods in other religions.
2. Yes I think I have studied and read on the various religions more than you, so I came to a conclusion that the available religions today are not enough to represent this "supreme being" if he/she/it exists.
3. When I say there "might be a supreme being", I am being honest because I am not all knowing. But with the current lack of evidence, I conclude there are NO deities. Of course if one day evidence emerges, I will believe, but for now, no. But I wonder if you leave yourself some space to be possibly wrong about your own beliefs?
Tcmc,
Practically you live like an atheist. But epistemologically speaking you are an agnostic. In short, you don't live as you believe. Also, you really need to be sure what atheism entails. If you even entertain the notion that you are unsure then it means you are an agnostic. You should then say evidence is lacking to conclude that there is certainly no God, but you BELIEVE that there is none.
Originally posted by BroInChrist:Tcmc,
Practically you live like an atheist. But epistemologically speaking you are an agnostic. In short, you don't live as you believe. Also, you really need to be sure what atheism entails. If you even entertain the notion that you are unsure then it means you are an agnostic. You should then say evidence is lacking to conclude that there is certainly no God, but you BELIEVE that there is none.
BIC,
Like I said, your worldview is simplistic and you define it in extremes black and white, right and wrong. Your argument is always "If A is right, then B must be wrong" or "If A is like this then B must be like that".
Excuse me dear BIC, we are no longer in primary school where there are straight answers to every question and situation in exams. We're talking about life here. There are many grey areas.
Yes I am an atheist. A thinking one. Rejecting existence of gods for now, until evidence emerges. What is exaclty wrong with that? To be extreme is to be foolish. Just like you, always on the extreme. Always refusing to look at other perspectives of your religion.
Atheists do not believe. I have told you in previous threads. In fact, we lack belief. It's like saying not playing soccer is a sport and that being BOTAK is a hairstyle.
Originally posted by Tcmc:BIC,
Like I said, your worldview is simplistic and you define it in extremes black and white, right and wrong. Your argument is always "If A is right, then B must be wrong" or "If A is like this then B must be like that".
Excuse me dear BIC, we are no longer in primary school where there are straight answers to every question and situation in exams. We're talking about life here. There are many grey areas.
Yes I am an atheist. A thinking one. Rejecting existence of gods for now, until evidence emerges. What is exaclty wrong with that? To be extreme is to be foolish. Just like you, always on the extreme. Always refusing to look at other perspectives of your religion.
Atheists do not believe. I have told you in previous threads. In fact, we lack belief. It's like saying not playing soccer is a sport and that being BOTAK is a hairstyle.
his worldview is all about xtian. he did not think whether it correspond with reality. whatever bible say, he accept 100% with no doubt. this is extremism
Originally posted by Rooney_07:his worldview is all about xtian. he did not think whether it correspond with reality. whatever bible say, he accept 100% with no doubt. this is extremism
i find that if no one agree with him, he will become even more stubborn and nicely put the blame on others
Originally posted by laurence82:
i find that if no one agree with him, he will become even more stubborn and nicely put the blame on others
Actually, I have many christian friends who would disagree with BIC. But that's not the point. The point is BIC is too biased in his arguments.
Originally posted by BroInChrist:Tcmc,
Practically you live like an atheist. But epistemologically speaking you are an agnostic. In short, you don't live as you believe. Also, you really need to be sure what atheism entails. If you even entertain the notion that you are unsure then it means you are an agnostic. You should then say evidence is lacking to conclude that there is certainly no God, but you BELIEVE that there is none.
Besides you're "90% atheist" too, towards the existence of the thousands of other Gods.
So i dont understand why you have a problem with me lacking in belief in one more God than you
Originally posted by Tcmc:Actually, I have many christian friends who would disagree with BIC. But that's not the point. The point is BIC is too biased in his arguments.
there are many christians in sgforums whom we all go outing with and i dare say majority dont like to come into this forum mainly due to people like BIC
u either have the extremists, or you have trolls like BIC
Originally posted by laurence82:
there are many christians in sgforums whom we all go outing with and i dare say majority dont like to come into this forum mainly due to people like BICu either have the extremists, or you have trolls like BIC
LOL got outing? I wan go! I m new here. lol
Originally posted by Tcmc:BIC,
Like I said, your worldview is simplistic and you define it in extremes black and white, right and wrong. Your argument is always "If A is right, then B must be wrong" or "If A is like this then B must be like that".
Excuse me dear BIC, we are no longer in primary school where there are straight answers to every question and situation in exams. We're talking about life here. There are many grey areas.
Yes I am an atheist. A thinking one. Rejecting existence of gods for now, until evidence emerges. What is exaclty wrong with that? To be extreme is to be foolish. Just like you, always on the extreme. Always refusing to look at other perspectives of your religion.
Atheists do not believe. I have told you in previous threads. In fact, we lack belief. It's like saying not playing soccer is a sport and that being BOTAK is a hairstyle.
Tcmc,
1. You are again guilty of distorting my beliefs. For the thousandth time, I do not believe that everything in the world is black or white. No where did I say that there are no grey areas. I clearly said that where the Bible is silent we can exercise Christian liberty and charity. You obviously went "lalalala" over what I said. A propositional statement is either right or wrong, true or false. Disagree with me and you should go back to elementary school or take a starter course on Logic 101.
2. You claim the label of atheist, but you are wearing the WRONG label. Perhaps this is just your blind spot. You reject God based on there being lack of evidence, but this rejection is NOT justified. You can of course insist on being an atheist, but when push comes to shove, you are not an atheist. An atheist confidently asserts "there is NO God." The moment you say "MAYBE there is a God" you cease to be an atheist.
3. Quit playing semantics here. Redefining atheism as a lack of belief is but a RECENT debate strategy to evade the burden of having to defend your beliefs. An atheist don't just do not have God in his life, an atheist believe at least in the following:
1. I believe that matter is all there is.
2. I believe that life came from nonliving matter billions of years ago.
3. From 2, I believe that I am the product of evolution over billions of years.
4. I believe that I am related by common ancestry to the swinging monkeys in the tree, the probosis monkey, and the baboon.
That's just a sampling of beliefs of the atheist. Negatively speaking of course it means
1. There is no God
2. There is no purpose and intelligent design to life
3. There is no creation of humans or animals according to their kinds etc etc
You wanna call all these a "lack" of beliefs, be my guest. Any discerning person can see through the semantic smokescreen and call your bluff on it.
Originally posted by Rooney_07:his worldview is all about xtian. he did not think whether it correspond with reality. whatever bible say, he accept 100% with no doubt. this is extremism
Rooney,
I take it as a compliment that you would fault me with possessing a Biblical worldview. The problem with many Christians today is that they lack such a worldview. I am surprised though that you actually hold to the correspondence theory of truth,, that truth means that which corresponds to reality. Perhaps you have forgotten what I have said earlier regarding that? There is ONE reality, with many ways of looking at it, but only ONE worldview will correspond with reality. And I have briefly laid them out as
1. Theism
2. Atheism
3. Pantheism
Originally posted by Tcmc:Besides you're "90% atheist" too, towards the existence of the thousands of other Gods.
So i dont understand why you have a problem with me lacking in belief in one more God than you
You are just playing loose with the definition of atheist. Semantic games again?
Originally posted by laurence82:
there are many christians in sgforums whom we all go outing with and i dare say majority dont like to come into this forum mainly due to people like BICu either have the extremists, or you have trolls like BIC
That's just you engaging in personal attack and character assassination. Typical response of atheists. When you cannot refute the message, attack the messenger!