Originally posted by Tcmc:BIC
Going in circles again.
i have previously shown you how christians also disagree on the main essentials of faith (E.g person of jesus, nature of resurrection, person and gifts of the holy spirit).
I have also shown you how the different beliefs christians have can affect "salvation". E.g christian A derives from bible that jesus is only man and a sin to worship him as god and christian B derives from the bible that jesus is god and is a sin not to worship him as god.
So if the beliefs affect salvation, then which christian must nonchristians listen to? Moreover all christians derive their beliefs from the bible.
I have discussed this with you before but you seem to be remembering selectively.
I have also mentioned to you that if different christians say that "god" tells them different things about the same issue, then there are two possibilities -
a) God tells different christians diff things (E.g god tells christian A tongues is a gift and tells christian B tongues is demonic)
b) God is not there and christians interprete different beliefs differently.
Remember?
So christians believing in different things is a topic worth discussing and highlighting because it tells us if what "god" says is consistent or whether he's really there
Tcmc, I have also shown how you OVERSTATE or OVER-EXAGGERATE things. Just because Christians disagree does not mean we cannot know the truth about what the Bible teaches. How come you so sure that no one can know the truth? Oh I get it, for you every has the truth because what's true for you is not true for me. Everyone has the truth and no one should say the other is wrong. Is that your point?
Originally posted by BroInChrist:Tcmc, I have also shown how you OVERSTATE or OVER-EXAGGERATE things. Just because Christians disagree does not mean we cannot know the truth about what the Bible teaches. How come you so sure that no one can know the truth? Oh I get it, for you every has the truth because what's true for you is not true for me. Everyone has the truth and no one should say the other is wrong. Is that your point?
BIC
I have told you also that every christian says that their interpretation is from god andthe bible.
So either god is tell every christian different things, or christians are interpreting it differently. And since evry christians interpretes from the bible, christian sources etc, and ultimately "god", how to know who is really correct? You have not given me a proper answer yet.
All you told me was that christians have to go to the "right" source to get the right interpretation. Well, but how to know who is going to the right source since no one can really ask god personally as he is nowhere to be seen or heard?
Originally posted by Tcmc:BIC
I have told you also that every christian says that their interpretation is from god andthe bible.
So either god is tell every christian different things, or christians are interpreting it differently. And since evry christians interpretes from the bible, christian sources etc, and ultimately "god", how to know who is really correct? You have not given me a proper answer yet.
All you told me was that christians have to go to the "right" source to get the right interpretation. Well, but how to know who is going to the right source since no one can really ask god personally as he is nowhere to be seen or heard?
1. Correction, every Christian claims that their intepretation is based on what the Bible says. Neither God or the Bible is doing the interpretation for anyone. Even when we say that Scripture interprets Scripture we are saying that the clearer verses in other passages will help us understand the not-so-clear passages.
2. God is not the author of confusion, God says what He means and means what He says. The fault is thus entirely on the interpreter, the individual. I have given you the proper answer but what you seek is a simplistic answer. I have said that one must STUDY to show himself approved. It takes time and effort to be a good exegete of the Bible, though I know you like the easy way out of listening to one person who has the infallible interpretation. If so then you become Roman Catholic lor, whatever the Pope and his magisterium says is "the" truth since they claim to be the infallible interpreter of the infallible Scriptures. The Roman Catholic just need to follow what Rome says, no need to dispute at all, just accept all that Rome says. Is that what you want? Does that solve your problem?
3. Going to the right source is already a step in the right direction. Which is why Mormons, JWs or other cults are wrong since they appeal to other sources that rival or overrides the Bible whenever the Bible conflicts with their other sources.
Lest I'm mistaken, some claim that in the Bible itself, the old testament discredits the idea that Jesus Christ is the true Messiah. So where do I go if the Bible supposedly conflicts with itself? Or do I leave it up to my own interpretation?
Originally posted by ThunderFbolt:Lest I'm mistaken, some claim that in the Bible itself, the old testament discredits the idea that Jesus Christ is the true Messiah. So where do I go if the Bible supposedly conflicts with itself? Or do I leave it up to my own interpretation?
Originally posted by ThunderFbolt:Lest I'm mistaken, some claim that in the Bible itself, the old testament discredits the idea that Jesus Christ is the true Messiah. So where do I go if the Bible supposedly conflicts with itself? Or do I leave it up to my own interpretation?
TB,
BIC always say "GO TO THE RIGHT SOURCE!"
But he fails to see that EVERY christian (who are like him) thinks that HIS/HER source is the right source!
Because a "god" does not speak or show himself and that is why its easy for christians to claim they got their stuff from "god" and it's difficult to PROVE who's telling the truth!
to some ppl, truth means sth that everyone in the whole world must agree to it...if there are ppl who are against it or dun subscribe to it, its therefore subjective and cannot be considered truth...
i noe of ppl who qn if albert einstein actually looked like the wad we often see in his photo...y? cos in modern technology, photos can be modified and doctored...so based on the above definition, the person in the photo may not be albert einstein...it could be someone who wants to be honoured wif the same accolade as the ''real'' albert einstein...
Originally posted by Tcmc:TB,
BIC always say "GO TO THE RIGHT SOURCE!"
But he fails to see that EVERY christian (who are like him) thinks that HIS/HER source is the right source!
Because a "god" does not speak or show himself and that is why its easy for christians to claim they got their stuff from "god" and it's difficult to PROVE who's telling the truth!
The right source is the Bible, the objective Word of God.
What YOU failed to see is that while the source is right, the interpretation may not be. It's like our Consitution, it is there but people can interpret it wrongly. Lawyers also make money from interpreting the laws. Anyway, difficult is not impossible, so why you like to give the impression that it is impossible to know the truth?
By the way, if you really believe in subjective truth, then why bother to find out the truth since when you do think you have found it, the end result would be "your truth is yours and mine is mine"?
he wants to prove if his stand that truth is subjective is indeed true...which means proving the notion ''truth is subjective'' to be objective...