Originally posted by despondent:Ok, then may I ask another legitimate qn: what's the value of infinity?
Despondent,
The problem is, up to now, you have not proved that your god exists. You and I have spoken before in the past and you have admitted that there is NO evidence to prove empirically that your god exists. You also admitted before that there are errors in the bible. So with so many questions, the existence of the bible god should be questioned. So if you theres no evidence of the existence of your god, how can you even conclude “he” is infinite?
Please answer the legitimate qn, whats the value of infinity?
Originally posted by despondent:Please answer the legitimate qn, whats the value of infinity?
It is a value without limit. It is a mathematics concept. What has that got to do with your unproven Deity?
Do u understand wad value means? A value without limit means valueless although it may not mean zero. Let's see if BIC can understand how this qn is related to our so-called unproven deity since he is the one debating. I am juz here to provide the platform. In fact, I have explained the parallel before alredi...
The only "proof" you provide are prayers answered, scriptures, miracles and lives changed. These are also the proofs other religions provide.
No difference.
Originally posted by Tcmc:“Who created God” is a legitimate question.
Stop trying to push away the question and give excuses like “Oh god was never created” when you guys are the one that say that “everything complex must have a creator”
Since when did I say that "Who created God" is not a legitimate question? Mind you, I have answered that question more than once on this forum. I only said that it is an IRRELEVANT question when I am asking you about the cause of the universe. Looks like you are the one guilty of pushing away the question of the cause of the universe.
Originally posted by Jacky Woo:too simple, but the universe is much more complex than that.
I have utter contempt for this kind of belief systems that beggar belief! if u think about it, there are so many inconsistencies and paradoxes.
in this day and age of science and technology, still got people believing in this kind of dope?
Jacky, you agree that the universe is complex ya? So what is the cause of the universe? Don't tell me you believe in the dope that says the universe made itself or that chance made it?
Originally posted by Jacky Woo:this must be a deflect and avoidance answers as usual. the qns is this. your god, being infinite, omniscience, whatever, was not created but existed by its own. I see, end of the qns and issue here.
By reading your answers given by your brethrens, its an insult to people's intelligence that this is the answer. enough said. actually I wanted to type more, but decided its a waste of time replying to you people, because the replies given are half past six and illogical.
Jacky, you wanna take a shot at the question: What is the cause of the universe?
Originally posted by BroInChrist:Jacky, you wanna take a shot at the question: What is the cause of the universe?
BIC,
1. Not knowing the cause of the universe does not automatically make your god the only cause for the universe. There are many other possible reasons, and possible gods.
2. Knowing the cause of the universe isn't necessary for everyone. Some people just don't find the NEED to know the cause of the universe as it does not affect their daily lives.
Originally posted by Jacky Woo:u just need to look at their history and bloodshed. how can they peaceful?
last time, they can kill you in the name of church or god. u dunno their god ordered the killing of men, women and children in the first testament meh?
Atheists are quick to point out that throughout history large numbers of people were killed in the name of Religion; but they fail to mention the countless millions who were killed by leaders who worshipped themselves or by militant atheist-Communists who were driven by a hatred for God and Religion.
If religion has to apologize for all the violence done in its name, so should atheism. Religion is not the only cause of evil in the world. In fact, more people have been killed by atheist regimes in the twentieth century than in all the religious persecutions of Western history. Mao was responsible for over forty million deaths, Stalin for more than twenty million, and Hitler’s count is over ten million. And those are just the big three atheists—we haven’t event mentioned other tyrants like Pol Pot, Enver Hoxha, Nicolae Ceausescu, Fidel Castro, and Kim Jong-il. In a single century, atheists have killed more than one-hundred million people. On the other hand, the Crusades, the Inquisition, and the witch burnings together killed about 200,000 people. It is not violence done in the name of religion that has caused the most evil in the world, but violence done in the name of atheism.
Originally posted by Dalforce 1941:Religion is religion, science is science. Just leave the two in their own areas of concern.
Fact of the matter is that modern science was born within a Judeo-Christian worldview, thus having its roots in the Bible. Like it or not, that's the truth.
But people who advocate that religion should leave science alone and vice versa do not walk the talk. Fact is, science keep poking its nose into religion, trying to "explain" why there is religion, trying to find the gene that makes people religious etc etc. And you have atheists like Victor Stenger who wrote that science has proven the non-existence of God.
Originally posted by Jacky Woo:its a fact that humans invented god. its humans who wrote the bible wasnt it. dun tell me god wrote the bible.
Still making the same unsubtantiated dogmatic assertion that humans invented God? Mind you, I have already answered this a long while back.
Originally posted by BroInChrist:Jacky, you wanna take a shot at the question: What is the cause of the universe?
BIC,
1. Not knowing the cause of the universe does not automatically make your god the only cause for the universe. There are many other possible reasons, and possible gods.
2. Knowing the cause of the universe isn't necessary for everyone. Some people just don't find the NEED to know the cause of the universe as it does not affect their daily lives.
Originally posted by Tcmc:
It is a value without limit. It is a mathematics concept. What has that got to do with your unproven Deity?
Apparently you don't get the point. Infinity is NOT a value.
The way I understand it is this: Just as it is absurd to define a value for infinity, it is also logically absurd to ask what caused an eternal God to exist. Or who's the bachelor's wife for that matter. We've been through this before, haven't we?
Originally posted by Tcmc:
BIC,
1. Not knowing the cause of the universe does not automatically make your god the only cause for the universe. There are many other possible reasons, and possible gods.
2. Knowing the cause of the universe isn't necessary for everyone. Some people just don't find the NEED to know the cause of the universe as it does not affect their daily lives.
Tcmc,
1. Saying "I don't know" is not an answer to the question "What is the cause of the universe?"
2. Saying "I don't care" is also not an answer to the question "What is the cause of the universe?"
In short, ignorance and indifference says more about the person than the issue.
Let's make it simple for you OK? Since you were never well taught in the faith you professed to have held to before.
1. The universe exists. Agree or disagree
2. The universe has a beginning. Agree or disagree
3. Whatever has a beginning has a cause. Agree or disagree
Please let me have your answer to the above questions.
Originally posted by BroInChrist:Tcmc,
1. Saying "I don't know" is not an answer to the question "What is the cause of the universe?"
2. Saying "I don't care" is also not an answer to the question "What is the cause of the universe?"
In short, ignorance and indifference says more about the person than the issue.
Let's make it simple for you OK? Since you were never well taught in the faith you professed to have held to before.
1. The universe exists. Agree or disagree
2. The universe has a beginning. Agree or disagree
3. Whatever has a beginning has a cause. Agree or disagree
Please let me have your answer to the above questions.
BIC,
1. It's ok to say "I don't know" to a question. I thought christians firmly believe that humans aren't all-knowing? Well, atheist believe that too!
2. Different people care about different things in life. That's totally legit. Why must you expect everyone else to CARE about the origins of the universe? You like to impose on others?
1. Yes I agree
2. I don't know.
3. HAHAHAHAHAHA. You better take this out because that inclues your god. Or fallacy of special pleading again?
Originally posted by Tcmc:
BIC,1. It's ok to say "I don't know" to a question. I thought christians firmly believe that humans aren't all-knowing? Well, atheist believe that too!
2. Different people care about different things in life. That's totally legit. Why must you expect everyone else to CARE about the origins of the universe? You like to impose on others?
1. Yes I agree
2. I don't know.
3. HAHAHAHAHAHA. You better take this out because that inclues your god. Or fallacy of special pleading again?
1. Problem is, atheists go beyond saying their ignorance by insisting that it cannot be God who created the universe!
2. Like I said, your indifference and apathy says more about you than the issue. You really feel imposed when I ask you for an answer? Am I pointing a gun to your head? Sheesh....
3. Why did you answer "I don't know" to the question of whether the universe has a beginning? Scared to go where the scientific evidence leads ya? C'mon, don't be a chicken.
Originally posted by BroInChrist:1. Problem is, atheists go beyond saying their ignorance by insisting that it cannot be God who created the universe!
2. Like I said, your indifference and apathy says more about you than the issue. You really feel imposed when I ask you for an answer? Am I pointing a gun to your head? Sheesh....
3. Why did you answer "I don't know" to the question of whether the universe has a beginning? Scared to go where the scientific evidence leads ya? C'mon, don't be a chicken.
1. Correction, We dont know but we are sure the CHRISTIAN GOD (not God in general) is not capable of doing it when he's not capable of inspiring the writers to write that bats are mammals.
2. So you do agree everyone cares about different things in life?
3. Name calling now?
Originally posted by Tcmc:
1. Correction, We dont know but we are sure the CHRISTIAN GOD (not God in general) is not capable of doing it when he's not capable of inspiring the writers to write that bats are mammals.
2. So you do agree everyone cares about different things in life?
3. Name calling now?
This is proof that you are NOT the honest seeker you tout yourself to be.
When your "bats are birds" objection is busted you switch angle and complained that the Bible never say "bats are mammals". What's next, that the Bible did not say that spiders are arachnids?
I do agree that there are people who are, or claim to be, apathetic towards things of ultimate concern.
You will not earn the "chicken" label if you are courageous enough to go where the scientific evidence leads to. Even godless publications like this http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=origin-of-the-universe do not deny that the universe has a beginning. So why are you so hesitant?
Originally posted by BroInChrist:This is proof that you are NOT the honest seeker you tout yourself to be.
When your "bats are birds" objection is busted you switch angle and complained that the Bible never say "bats are mammals". What's next, that the Bible did not say that spiders are arachnids?
I do agree that there are people who are, or claim to be, apathetic towards things of ultimate concern.
You will not earn the "chicken" label if you are courageous enough to go where the scientific evidence leads to. Even godless publications like this http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=origin-of-the-universe do not deny that the universe has a beginning. So why are you so hesitant?
BIC,
You belong to a denomination called christian fundamentalist. Other christians would be ashamed of you for spoiling hte name of their religion.You're too extreme!
Originally posted by Tcmc:BIC,
You belong to a denomination called christian fundamentalist. Other christians would be ashamed of you for spoiling hte name of their religion.You're too extreme!
Name calling now?
What denomination I belong to is really not your concern, nor is that relevant to what is being debated and discussed here.
In what sense have I spoiled the name of Christ? By being able to handle all the objections you dish out against the faith? In what sense am I being too extreme? In being equipped enough to refute your arguments?
Originally posted by Tcmc:BIC,
You belong to a denomination called christian fundamentalist. Other christians would be ashamed of you for spoiling hte name of their religion.You're too extreme!
Hi Tcmc, check out this BBC talk show where 3 theists can't agree with one another on the bible. Quite entertaining.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4sP63mfn0gg
Originally posted by laffin123:Hi Tcmc, check out this BBC talk show where 3 theists can't agree with one another on the bible. Quite entertaining.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4sP63mfn0gg
Why is it surprising or entertaining that Christians can't agree? Even atheists disagree with each other. Everyone disagrees with everyone else over some things.
People disagree for all sorts of reasons. But the point is that either all are wrong or one is right. You can't have everyone saying contradictory things and still be correct.
Originally posted by Tcmc:BIC,
You belong to a denomination called christian fundamentalist. Other christians would be ashamed of you for spoiling hte name of their religion.You're too extreme!
hahaha I have it many a time already. do you see me bother replying to his fanatical beliefs? no? why? cos I dun want to waste my time, knowing in advance what kind of fanatical and incoherent answers. so dun waste ur time on him
Originally posted by laffin123:Hi Tcmc, check out this BBC talk show where 3 theists can't agree with one another on the bible. Quite entertaining.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4sP63mfn0gg
Hi laffin123,
Yes below is a list of issues christians always argue with each other about -
levels of heaven and hell
nature of heaven and hell, literal or metaphorical
salvation of non-christians
doctrine of trinity
nature of person of jesus, deity or not?
megachurches
prosperity gospel
once saved always saved?
nature of resurrection and ascension, literal or metaphorical
name of jesus, joshua, yesus, jesus?
number of books to be in the bible
version of bible to use
denomination to follow
legitimacy of tongues, healings and prophecies
infallible bible?
sequence of events for end of days
homosexuality
author of hebrew
existence of ghosts
number of salvationat the end, 1440000?
nature of genesis, literal?
and more...
BIC,
For your info.