Christian Arguments for God’s Existence - Refutations
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Originally posted by Demon Bane:
If the Bible is correct about Lucifer/Evil Angels/AntiChrist will deceive "most of us"...how do we explain the world's largest religion today (Christianity)....will that mean they shall all be deceived ?
Jesus taught that a kingdom divided against itself will fall. So if Satan is deceiving many people into believing in Jesus then he must really suck at being a deceiver!
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If God is for us, who could be against us ? The DEVIL ?
Such a scary tot... -
Originally posted by Demon Bane:
If God is for us, who could be against us ? The DEVIL ?
Such a scary tot...Yes, the Bible teaches that the devil comes to kill, steal and destroy.
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Originally posted by BroInChrist:
Yes, the Bible teaches that the devil comes to kill, steal and destroy.
Hmmm....quite true....scary though...
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Originally posted by Demon Bane:
Hmmm....quite true....scary though...
Scary indeed is this truth. But we also know that in the end God wins and throws Satan into the lake of fire.
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Originally posted by BroInChrist:
Scary indeed is this truth. But we also know that in the end God wins and throws Satan into the lake of fire.
But....even if its true....we won't live long enuff to witness that right?
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Originally posted by Demon Bane:
But....even if its true....we won't live long enuff to witness that right?
The point is that God has already told us how it will end. We can trust God's Word.
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Originally posted by BroInChrist:
The point is that God has already told us how it will end. We can trust God's Word.
Buddhism teaches about now, the present as more important....and integration into the society to be a useful person....not some ancient battle between Good and Evil....
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Originally posted by Demon Bane:
Buddhism teaches about now, the present as more important....and integration into the society to be a useful person....not some ancient battle between Good and Evil....
It would be a mistake if you think that the Bible does not teach that the present life is important or that we have to be useful people. The Bible does not teach that the present is not important, in fact it teaches that in this life we make a most important decision that will affect us for the rest of eternity. It teaches us that we should not store our treasures on earth where it will be temporary and can decay but that we should store up treasures in heaven where no thief can steal and no moth can eat. It also teaches us to do good to all. But the Bible also teaches that there are forces of evil at work to turn people away from God. We need to be mindful of spiritual forces at work. It teaches the triumphant end in that the devil will finally be destroyed forever.
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Originally posted by BroInChrist:
It would be a mistake if you think that the Bible does not teach that the present life is important or that we have to be useful people. The Bible does not teach that the present is not important, in fact it teaches that in this life we make a most important decision that will affect us for the rest of eternity. It teaches us that we should not store our treasures on earth where it will be temporary and can decay but that we should store up treasures in heaven where no thief can steal and no moth can eat. It also teaches us to do good to all. But the Bible also teaches that there are forces of evil at work to turn people away from God. We need to be mindful of spiritual forces at work. It teaches the triumphant end in that the devil will finally be destroyed forever.
I guess all major religions have some kind of good victory over evil....and to do good + refrain from doing bad things...etc.
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Originally posted by Demon Bane:
I guess all major religions have some kind of good victory over evil....and to do good + refrain from doing bad things...etc.
Indeed religions in general teach people to live good moral lives. But let's just consider three religions for the time being, Christianity, Buddhism, and atheism.
Starting with atheism first, atheism has nothing to say about good vs evil, because in the denial of God there is no longer any objective basis for good and evil, no moral laws, no ultimate foundation for ethics. What's more important for atheists is the survival of the fittest via natural selection, and not the idea of truth, good, and evil.
Buddhism, in my understanding, deals with the personal effort to attain nirvana. There is no ultimate victory over evil or the vanquishing of evil, but only the escape from samsara and rebirth. The existence of evil and suffering and death is eternal.
Christianity teaches that God created a perfect world which was corrupted by man's wilful rebellion, thus bringing with it suffering and death. By Adam's disobedience sin, death and suffering entered the world. But by the obedience of Jesus (the Second Adam) through His vicarious suffering and death, the power of sin was broken. Man, who is dead in sin, can now have eternal life in Christ. And there will be a final consummation of all things where the devil and all that is evil will be vanquished by God forever. And God will usher in a new heavens and a new earth where perfection will last for all eternity.
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Originally posted by BroInChrist:
Indeed religions in general teach people to live good moral lives. But let's just consider three religions for the time being, Christianity, Buddhism, and atheism.
Starting with atheism first, atheism has nothing to say about good vs evil, because in the denial of God there is no longer any objective basis for good and evil, no moral laws, no ultimate foundation for ethics. What's more important for atheists is the survival of the fittest via natural selection, and not the idea of truth, good, and evil.
Buddhism, in my understanding, deals with the personal effort to attain nirvana. There is no ultimate victory over evil or the vanquishing of evil, but only the escape from samsara and rebirth. The existence of evil and suffering and death is eternal.
Christianity teaches that God created a perfect world which was corrupted by man's wilful rebellion, thus bringing with it suffering and death. By Adam's disobedience sin, death and suffering entered the world. But by the obedience of Jesus (the Second Adam) through His vicarious suffering and death, the power of sin was broken. Man, who is dead in sin, can now have eternal life in Christ. And there will be a final consummation of all things where the devil and all that is evil will be vanquished by God forever. And God will usher in a new heavens and a new earth where perfection will last for all eternity.
Hmmmm....u have your way of explaining....ok...not all buddhists are like that....some believe in deities/gods/demi-gods...but there are so many types of buddhists....
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Originally posted by Demon Bane:
Hmmmm....u have your way of explaining....ok...not all buddhists are like that....some believe in deities/gods/demi-gods...but there are so many types of buddhists....
I understand that there are many varieties of Buddhism today, just as there are many varieties of Christianity today. But I am of the view that it is possible to filter off many of these varieties by comparing them to the Scriptures and the earliest practices to get at the purity and simplicity of the earliest believers and their practices.
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Originally posted by BroInChrist:
I understand that there are many varieties of Buddhism today, just as there are many varieties of Christianity today. But I am of the view that it is possible to filter off many of these varieties by comparing them to the Scriptures and the earliest practices to get at the purity and simplicity of the earliest believers and their practices.
The Buddha taught us according to our level of understanding....his teachings grew much more complex as he progressed....the earlier practices were told to be just preparation for the ultimate truth in Buddhism....become enlightened and enter Nirvana....and help the common people to achieve happiness....
There are so many schools of buddhism....too much to be listed here....
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Originally posted by Demon Bane:
The Buddha taught us according to our level of understanding....his teachings grew much more complex as he progressed....the earlier practices were told to be just preparation for the ultimate truth in Buddhism....become enlightened and enter Nirvana....and help the common people to achieve happiness....
There are so many schools of buddhism....too much to be listed here....
Jesus also taught many things to His disciples, and progressively revealed more and more to them. But His teachings never contradict one another. The subsequent followers of Jesus could of course have beliefs and practices that contradicted what He taught. But here's the thing, we can judge the followers' beliefs by what Jesus has taught.
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Originally posted by BroInChrist:
Jesus also taught many things to His disciples, and progressively revealed more and more to them. But His teachings never contradict one another. The subsequent followers of Jesus could of course have beliefs and practices that contradicted what He taught. But here's the thing, we can judge the followers' beliefs by what Jesus has taught.
Its weird that the "Words of Jesus Christ" was so little only....does that mean He taught so little statement and advices only ? Hmmmm.....
He supposed to be a Saviour but He spoke so little only....? -
Originally posted by Demon Bane:
Its weird that the "Words of Jesus Christ" was so little only....does that mean He taught so little statement and advices only ? Hmmmm.....
He supposed to be a Saviour but He spoke so little only....?Again I refer to the Gospel of John 21:25, "There are many other things that Jesus did. If every one of them were written down, I suppose the whole world would not have room for the books that would be written."
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Originally posted by BroInChrist:
Again I refer to the Gospel of John 21:25, "There are many other things that Jesus did. If every one of them were written down, I suppose the whole world would not have room for the books that would be written."
I still prefer a saviour that will speak and teach verbally much more....how many years had Jesus Christ taught before he went to Heaven ? Why His words are so scarce?
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Originally posted by BroInChrist:
Again I refer to the Gospel of John 21:25, "There are many other things that Jesus did. If every one of them were written down, I suppose the whole world would not have room for the books that would be written."
Buddha taught for many years and documented his exact words into the variety of sutras and scriptures.... I was just wondering why Jesus Christ dun do the same records....
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cos jesus' main calling was not to teach although teaching was a part of wad he was called to do? yes, jesus is known as a teacher but his main mission on earth was to die for human's sins not to teach and teach and teach...
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Originally posted by Demon Bane:
I still prefer a saviour that will speak and teach verbally much more....how many years had Jesus Christ taught before he went to Heaven ? Why His words are so scarce?
As mentioned earlier, Jesus certainly taught and did much more than what the Gospel writers chose to record which is sufficient for our instruction. Your personal preference for more documentation does not in anyway undermine that which is already documented for us. In addition, we also have the writings of the NT writers besides the 4 Gospels which also continue to teach that which Christ has taught the apostles.
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Originally posted by Demon Bane:
Buddha taught for many years and documented his exact words into the variety of sutras and scriptures.... I was just wondering why Jesus Christ dun do the same records....
Yes, Buddha taught for many years till over 80 years old whereas Jesus lived only 33 years and taught for 3. But then again, the brevity of Jesus' life must be seen in the context of His purpose for coming, which was to atone for the sins of the world. Moreover, the Buddha's words were only documented centuries after the death of Buddha but Jesus' words were recorded within decades of His resurrection. Lastly, the truth of a teaching lies not in the volume of words documented. You may of course wish for more of Jesus' words to be documented but it would be rather unreasonable to compare Jesus' 3 year teaching ministry with Buddha's 40 odd years of teaching.
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Originally posted by Demon Bane:
Buddha taught for many years and documented his exact words into the variety of sutras and scriptures.... I was just wondering why Jesus Christ dun do the same records....
I thought I have already told you not to discuss Buddhism at this forum.
if you want to discuss, go to buddhism forum to discuss instead. I dunno what is your motive discussing here. are you sincerely want to discuss Buddhism perspective with xtianity or what? compare and constrast? you jolly know well what stand they are taking, dun u. if you want to know more on xtianity or buddhism, google is your best friend.
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Originally posted by Jacky Woo:
I thought I have already told you not to discuss Buddhism at this forum.
if you want to discuss, go to buddhism forum to discuss instead. I dunno what is your motive discussing here. are you sincerely want to discuss Buddhism perspective with xtianity or what? compare and constrast? you jolly know well what stand they are taking, dun u. if you want to know more on xtianity or buddhism, google is your best friend.
Jacky,
Why are you so upset that Demon Bane (or anyone else here) would want to discuss Buddhism here? Why do you want to stop him, and why should he obey you anyway? If atheists can discuss, or rather, impose their atheism here, why can't Buddhists discuss their Buddhism here, whether it be comparing or contrasting with the Christian faith? What's your fear?
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Originally posted by BroInChrist:
Yes, Buddha taught for many years till over 80 years old whereas Jesus lived only 33 years and taught for 3. But then again, the brevity of Jesus' life must be seen in the context of His purpose for coming, which was to atone for the sins of the world. Moreover, the Buddha's words were only documented centuries after the death of Buddha but Jesus' words were recorded within decades of His resurrection. Lastly, the truth of a teaching lies not in the volume of words documented. You may of course wish for more of Jesus' words to be documented but it would be rather unreasonable to compare Jesus' 3 year teaching ministry with Buddha's 40 odd years of teaching.
Yes....so my point is valid and yours too !