They Say, We Say: Evidence of the Obvious
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Evidence that God exists, that Christ is the Son of God and that, along with the Holy Spirit, God encompasses these three identities, appears in the Bible; in fact, throughout the Bible. To know that the one God created the universe forms the basis of faith, our foundation. We know God created the world and everything in it, and see evidence of this every day in its order and complexity and the way all things fit together in an extraordinary planned sequence.
Each time dawn appears, the mystery is there in its entirety.
—René Daumal (1903–1944)Extraordinary order = Unimaginable Intelligence
This irrevocable order comes from the undisputable intelligence that created it, ordered it, even maintains it, in spite of man’s interference. Those who attempt to refute the existence of God, the Creator, have to believe in Him on some level in order to refute Him! We witness the miracles in creation every day.
Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them. For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse: Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were they thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools.
(Romans 1:19–22)Man is Only the Created; We Know Who the Author Is
Imagine the giant ego of man to think he can reason beyond God! This arrogance is hubris, from the Greek word meaning excessive pride, which becomes the downfall of the person who possesses it. Literature is full of stories in which the hero ultimately fails because success has gone to his head, and he loses his true perspective and direction. “Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever.” (Romans 1:25) Those who assume they know all the answers are victims of their own delusion. Remember: God is the judge of man; not man the judge of God.
Christians are constantly challenged by those who believe in evolution—the “accidental,” “scientific” process of change in the universe and living things. We are charged by Christ to patiently answer the naysayers, in the hope that the Holy Spirit uses our answers in their conversion:
But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear …”
(1 Peter 3:15)Know Thy Limits, Respect Thy Maker
For God is the ultimate intelligence, and we must accept that there is no way we will understand and explain everything. Our limitations as humans are too great. “God created man in his own image.” (Genesis 1:26) Let us be reminded that an image is a representation of a being or object. A picture of a person is NOT the person himself. It is but a mere reflection. By believing that the Bible is God’s Word, recorded in remarkable consistency by many through the ages, we take God at His Word. Denying His Word reduces that denial to absurdity.
Indeed, for the unbeliever, our faith is blind, but as the Bible says in 2 Timothy 2:25, “… God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth …” They cannot see truth until repentance. And 1 Cor 2:14 says: “But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know [them], because they are spiritually discerned.”
We have our proof: IN THE BEGINNING, GOD CREATED THE HEAVEN AND THE EARTH. (Genesis 1:1)
Enough said!
Praise be to God (not man)!Article reference: http://www.drdino.com/apologetics-evidence-of-the-obvious/
readmore @ www.drdino.com
God bless you
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yeah..........i know God is real................
just like Harry Potter, right ?
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Originally posted by Susanteo2011:
yeah..........i know God is real................
just like Harry Potter, right ?
god is in holy bible, just like superman was in DC Comics.
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Originally posted by Rooney9:
god is in holy bible, just like superman was in DC Comics.
Good analogy!
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its not i want to dispute existence of almight being or what
but this article is poorly written and more like written by someone from PAP propaganda office than a researcher or theologist
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1. I see your "God is Everywhere in the Bible", and as others have said, I'll raise you a "Harry Potter is everywhere in his books" too.
2. Counters to the Teleological Argument.
3. I refute the existence of a real-life Kryptonian Superman, and yet I don't have to believe in him to know or understand who/what he is.
4. Imagine how closed minded a person is to not be accepting of other beliefs! This arrogance is bigotry, completely against what Singapore stands for.
5. Proof: sufficient evidence or argument for the truth of a proposition. You are just presenting an assertion, that "God created the Universe". This assertion is hence on equal standing with "FireIce created the Universe".
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Originally posted by ThunderFbolt:
1. I see your "God is Everywhere in the Bible", and as others have said, I'll raise you a "Harry Potter is everywhere in his books" too.
2. Counters to the Teleological Argument.
3. I refute the existence of a real-life Kryptonian Superman, and yet I don't have to believe in him to know or understand who/what he is.
4. Imagine how closed minded a person is to not be accepting of other beliefs! This arrogance is bigotry, completely against what Singapore stands for.
5. Proof: sufficient evidence or argument for the truth of a proposition. You are just presenting an assertion, that "God created the Universe". This assertion is hence on equal standing with "FireIce created the Universe".
actually I believe that FireIce created the Universe. I should start a 'Church of Fireice'. Anyone want to join?
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I thought we signed on the t&c already when we register in sgf???? To learn more about the god/dess?
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Originally posted by ThunderFbolt:
1. I see your "God is Everywhere in the Bible", and as others have said, I'll raise you a "Harry Potter is everywhere in his books" too.
4. Imagine how closed minded a person is to not be accepting of other beliefs! This arrogance is bigotry, completely against what Singapore stands for.
5. Proof: sufficient evidence or argument for the truth of a proposition. You are just presenting an assertion, that "God created the Universe". This assertion is hence on equal standing with "FireIce created the Universe".
superman is also everywhere in DC Comics, just like god is in bible.
as for being closed minded, yes it is. its the narrow mindedness, as they are scared others might join other faiths, hence there is no god but me. all other religions are false and satanic. as for the hell thingy, it is used to scare people to embrace the religion, nothing more than that.
lastly they cant even get the fact right, that the earth was not square. I rather trust science and medicine, who are evidence based, rather than based on hearsay and beliefs which are unsubstantiated, not to mention, ancient!
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So.. you guys talking to yourselves ?
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Originally posted by BadzMaro:
So.. you guys talking to yourselves ?
Where is the one who started this thread?
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Originally posted by gorgorlokaychyong:
Where is the one who started this thread?
How do I know. But I could come out with a plethora of possibilities as to why. lol
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Originally posted by BadzMaro:
How do I know. But I could come out with a plethora of possibilities as to why. lol
Think we will just leave it. I notice in forum there are some people who just started the threads and disappear , don't know why. May be the threadstarter is one of them.
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Originally posted by BadzMaro:
So.. you guys talking to yourselves ?
no challenging and presenting the fallacy and contradictions of god. We need evidence based facts, not something written and unsubstantiated. anyone can write or say anything. the concept of god is as old as mankind, in all cultures and races, be it single god, two god or many different types of god, like monkey god, sun god, moon god, earth god etc.
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Lets start a religion, I heard its very profitable....
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Start a religion. The more you give money the more money you earn.
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Originally posted by Rooney9:
no challenging and presenting the fallacy and contradictions of god. We need evidence based facts, not something written and unsubstantiated. anyone can write or say anything. the concept of god is as old as mankind, in all cultures and races, be it single god, two god or many different types of god, like monkey god, sun god, moon god, earth god etc.
You know.. just because nobody refutes your so called paradoxes and fallacies, does not mean that your are right.lol
Maybe to people of equal or below your intelligence, sure. Unless you are content with just arguing childishly in forums.
And when it comes to debating or at least challening religion, you need to have more than just flimsy Superman in DC comics argument. I mean really ? You dont see me going around telling other Buddhist their own paradoxes eventhough it is the paradoxes that they themselves thrive in it. E.g The emptiness of which Buddhists speak of, paradoxically, is also the source of all fullness.
When you speak of your realisation, the biggest drawback to realisation is that you can't give it to anyone. It cannot be explained, no matter how clearly you see it; it is ineffable and paradoxical.
And that is only the Zen school of Buddhism I am talking about. Let me elaborate further. Zen stresses the importance of getting beyond the artificial confinement of words and concepts to what simply "Is." Similarly, the approach to Christian mysticism would relate to is the apophatic one- to simply stop trying to imagine and out-think "God" allowing whatever "Is" to manifest within for you
In case you still don't understand, The Buddha was not a Buddhist. Same with The Christ was not a Christian.They both realised something that others hadn't and attempted to communicate their experiences using 'Language' with all its limitations.
The result is unenlightened men having since created dead religions using these communications.
So chill. And bring you crusade somewhere else. Or history will repeat itself outside the walls of Jerusalem.
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Oh.. n here's a chill pill.
lol
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peace peace!
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there is definitely no proof of god's existence.
its fear that drive people to that belief.
the fear of death and whats after death.
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Originally posted by dragg:
there is definitely no proof of god's existence.
its fear that drive people to that belief.
the fear of death and whats after death.
somehow, what you said makes sense.
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Originally posted by dragg:
there is definitely no proof of god's existence.
its fear that drive people to that belief.
the fear of death and whats after death.
the Human Ego and Desire to Exist led to the creations of religions..............think about it and instinctively, you know it's true.
people can't accept that after their physical lives ended, they'll be gone and forgotten............. they feel they're special and their lives mean something............that ego, the fear of dying and the desire to exist created the idea of a permanent soul/self......................they think they're separate and different from all others...........
but then they've seen and know people suffer physical deaths..............so they thought '' Ah Ha ! there must be an Eternal After-Life after my mortal life ends !''
but where will that After-Life be at ?..................so people think it must be a most pleasurable and happy place since who wants to live Eternally in a shithole, right ?...............so let's call that dreamed-up Utopia........Heaven !
so the next question will be WHO created Heaven ??? well, just as Man has to create the tools he needs..........then SOMEONE must have created Man and Heaven and everything else !
so.........HEY PRESTO !!!............let's call this dreamed-up Creator/Maker...........God............
that's the reason why all religions contained stories that's far far too HUMAN to be Divine.............plus full of loopholes and flaws...........
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Originally posted by BadzMaro:
You know.. just because nobody refutes your so called paradoxes and fallacies, does not mean that your are right.lol
Maybe to people of equal or below your intelligence, sure. Unless you are content with just arguing childishly in forums.
And when it comes to debating or at least challening religion, you need to have more than just flimsy Superman in DC comics argument. I mean really ? You dont see me going around telling other Buddhist their own paradoxes eventhough it is the paradoxes that they themselves thrive in it. E.g The emptiness of which Buddhists speak of, paradoxically, is also the source of all fullness.
When you speak of your realisation, the biggest drawback to realisation is that you can't give it to anyone. It cannot be explained, no matter how clearly you see it; it is ineffable and paradoxical.
And that is only the Zen school of Buddhism I am talking about. Let me elaborate further. Zen stresses the importance of getting beyond the artificial confinement of words and concepts to what simply "Is." Similarly, the approach to Christian mysticism would relate to is the apophatic one- to simply stop trying to imagine and out-think "God" allowing whatever "Is" to manifest within for you
In case you still don't understand, The Buddha was not a Buddhist. Same with The Christ was not a Christian.They both realised something that others hadn't and attempted to communicate their experiences using 'Language' with all its limitations.
The result is unenlightened men having since created dead religions using these communications.
So chill. And bring you crusade somewhere else. Or history will repeat itself outside the walls of Jerusalem.
cannot be explained hence no need to explain but I wonder how come science can explain to the masses such as evaporation, there are microbes and bateria unseen by the naked eye. that is why evidence based truth is better than the concept of god anytime. physics is the language of truth as the scientists said.
so many flaws and yet you chose to be blind to the inconsistencies, I really have to hand it to you. to each his own I suppose. selective deduction or reasoning I suppose.
if you want to question emptiness or any other teachings in buddhist forum, by all means go ahead, but make sure you understand the subject matter you want to discuss. dun be like Rony Tan, who is ignorant of other faiths and can preach other religions and faiths are satanic and false. I certainly hope you are much better than him in this sense.
a case in point. how can a planet the size of earth be created in 6 days? if u know quatum physics, energy cannot be created nor destroyed, just like the protons and molecules.
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Originally posted by Susanteo2011:
the Human Ego and Desire to Exist led to the creations of religions..............think about it and instinctively, you know it's true.
people can't accept that after their physical lives ended, they'll be gone and forgotten............. they feel they're special and their lives mean something............that ego, the fear of dying and the desire to exist created the idea of a permanent soul/self......................they think they're separate and different from all others...........
but then they've seen and know people suffer physical deaths..............so they thought '' Ah Ha ! there must be an Eternal After-Life after my mortal life ends !''
but where will that After-Life be at ?..................so people think it must be a most pleasurable and happy place since who wants to live Eternally in a shithole, right ?...............so let's call that dreamed-up Utopia........Heaven !
so the next question will be WHO created Heaven ??? well, just as Man has to create the tools he needs..........then SOMEONE must have created Man and Heaven and everything else !
so.........HEY PRESTO !!!............let's call this dreamed-up Creator/Maker...........God............
that's the reason why all religions contained stories that's far far too HUMAN to be Divine.............plus full of loopholes and flaws...........
I like your too human to be divine is very true. the concept of god was created by man, period.
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Originally posted by Rooney9:
cannot be explained hence no need to explain but I wonder how come science can explain to the masses such as evaporation, there are microbes and bateria unseen by the naked eye. that is why evidence based truth is better than the concept of god anytime. physics is the language of truth as the scientists said.
so many flaws and yet you chose to be blind to the inconsistencies, I really have to hand it to you. to each his own I suppose. selective deduction or reasoning I suppose.
if you want to question emptiness or any other teachings in buddhist forum, by all means go ahead, but make sure you understand the subject matter you want to discuss. dun be like Rony Tan, who is ignorant of other faiths and can preach other religions and faiths are satanic and false. I certainly hope you are much better than him in this sense.
a case in point. how can a planet the size of earth be created in 6 days? if u know quatum physics, energy cannot be created nor destroyed, just like the protons and molecules.
I dont think U understand what I am trying to convey to you. Or as a matter of fact, the subject matter of Quantumn Physics. And yes, I attempt and at least DO understand the subject matter before mouthing of like you know it all. And at least I am willing to learn and understand and continue to learn and understand, instead of being stuck in such a childish thought thinking how smart u are, when u are actually not.
And I am glad you brought up the topic on Quantumn Mechanics. In physics, the study of Quatum Mechanics is the study of the smallest elements and forces of matter and how they react and interact thus creates all that we know.
There are a few schools of thought regarding Quantum Mechanics and how those small elements are. Are they particles ? In some experemints they behave like how a particle should behave. Or are they waves , because in other experiments, they behave like wave should. But how can this be ? Wave and Particles are two different thought of realities. Some school of thought believes that they are both wave AND particles. Some describe it as wave particles. The particle wave duality theory of Quantum Mechanics.
We know about atoms. We understand how they act and react = atomic bomb. So now we know Atom is not smallest thing in the universe in the eality. They are made out of small particles or waves or substances or realities, and these are made up of small energy forces. N we know it is electromagnetic force or light that holds electroncs and protons together in atoms which hold them together to form molecules , hence light holds them together. Smaller n smaller and they are held together and interect in ways not known to the universe. Quantum particles operate outside reality and space.
We know that when they are stimulated in any way, they instantly cause and effect and reaction to other small parts associated with it. It does not matter if they are of great distance. It is though they are tied together by an invisible energy or some may say some unknown or immeasurable thought processes. This is called the Entanglement Theory. Sepculating that everything happened in out big instant.
In addition to this phenomenon we have no way to precisely know where and when these small parts will be in any particular location or state. We can only speak about it in possibilities. Repeated measurements of the same quantum state is often different. It may be that the act of measurement itself that causes its change. This is called the MEasurement Problem. The smaller u go.. less and less we know as real exist. Time space and matter seems to disappear into nothingness.
Philosophically it is challenging because since we live in a real world with tangible objects existing in Time Space and Reality, we know that our reality is made up of particles that seem to recede into nothingness. And they operate outside time space realities and natural laws of the material world. Welcome to the connenderum of Quantum Mechanics.
All other scientific theory, we have tangible model on how we THINK things work. QUantum Mechanics Theory only tell us how probability changes in time. Are u trying to say u fully understand Quantum Mechanics? Do u have a particular Theory that you full understand and stick to it ? Or are u open for possibilties that you may NOT even understand how Quantum Mechanics work?
One thing is certain. As much as we do know about our world, our relaity and universe, there is an infinite universe of information we DO NOT KNOW. Therefore we are like Ants, looking at the moon at night, wishing we can touch that big bright light in the world. We can see it, but we cant even remotely understand it, or it's distance from it nor the element of space, nor as an ability of an ant to touch it. But we try.. and touch it anyways. Hence that is our plight in grasping the vastness of information concerning Quantum Mechanics Reality.
If you fail to understand the basics of Quantum Mechanics, I fear you WILL fail to understand anything I am trying to convey to you. You can say I am stupid, or ignorant, but my posts will prove otherwise.
I wont even bother quoting Biblical verses supporting the theory, which there are. Because for someone like you who already refuse to believe or even accept the remote possibilities, I save myself a few paragraphs for your sake. Some say that instead of debating on your terms and on your grounds, I should step back and use the Bible as my ground stand on. Or at least find a neutral ground. But I am giving u the benefit of the doubt by stepping into YOUR position arguing from your understanding of Quantum Physics. Since you seem to regard yourself so highly on the subject matter.
And oh by the way, I dont know how u can compare me to Rony Tan, another point I should point out on your error in analogy. But I am not gonna go down there and discredit you.
Oh one more thing, its always good to accept constructive criticsm. Because you can improve be it on your crusade to discredit all religions or particularly: Christianity, or whaver you will be doing. You can learn a thing or two, because your argument is weak at best. And as u grow, your mind and thought processes have to improve. And you can only improve when shown the errors of your ways and accept it, instead of blaming everyone that does not agree with u as blind to the Truth. Lets not even go down to what your understanding of Truth is. =) .
So unless the Grand Unified Theory (GUT) is complete or at least successful in theory, we have alot to learn and understand.
Oh and on why I dont go to the Buddhist Form to question them is because there is no need to at this moment of my understanding, not because I am all knowing, but because I respect the Buddhist in what they do and what they are trying to achieve. I do no interfere nor do I criticise. I give them the respect they deserve.