why did God kill the first born of the Eqyptians?
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Originally posted by Rooney9:
so called faith or miracle healing is not so miracle after all, it is placebo effect.
as for how the earth was formed, science did explained. go google or wiki for it.
u seriously you cant expect me to believe earth was formed in a mere 6 days by a divine being, come on.
And you simply can't convince me that there's this Big Bang theory.
I didn't expect you to believe. Like we agreed on, we have different views.
Placebo effect? I've personally seen people walking out of their wheelchair, blind seeing, deaf hearing and many more. You can google or wiki this too. Or, go to a healing crusade/event to witness it yourself like I did. :)
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Originally posted by Cck689461:
Answer my question. If God deals with you harshly and earn your hatred, would you still love him.With this, I put each and every disciple to the test.
Breytonhartge, i say to you, drink the cup of trial and tribulation before you speak.
The test is not for God but for the disciple.
do not presume to speak for me when you have not walked a mile in my shoes. My loyalty and love are still with Him, that is the one fact that will NEVER change. I would rather suffer at the hand of Yahweh than anyone else... Adonai is my maker and He can do what He will.
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Originally posted by Great Heavens!:
And you simply can't convince me that there's this Big Bang theory.
I didn't expect you to believe. Like we agreed on, we have different views.
Placebo effect? I've personally seen people walking out of their wheelchair, blind seeing, deaf hearing and many more. You can google or wiki this too. Or, go to a healing crusade/event to witness it yourself like I did. :)
yes big bang is a theory and not proven, thats why it is called generally accepted theory in the scientific community. but then u expect me to believe that a divine being created the earth in a mere 6 days?
you witnessed? where, when, what? do u think i believe your words than the placebo effect appearing in reputable science journals and periodicals.
next time if there is a miracle healing, pls call up the reporters and tell them to report this in the newspapers. anyone can say anything they want. can you get your miracle healer to cure of cancers, HIV, heart diseases and so forth. if you can do that, then I will believe you.
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so what is god views on animal sufferings? did god create animals meant for food for human beings? so its fine to say that animal sufferings are justifiable? so where does animals go after they die? heaven or hell or purgatory, or none of these mentioned? does it mean to say animal lives were ended when they die and they do not exists after that? so it means to say that if u go to heavens, you will not see any animals there?
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Originally posted by Cck689461:
it is important to analyse every wording of the bible instead of blindly following of what is written. it is not about karma.
God is really bloodthirsty to kill the firstborn of the Egyptians. He did not follow the principle that he has set. He told others to show mercy but yet he himself showed no mercy for others.
I will return you and all christians a question. If this loving god of yours turn his face against you and strike down your loved ones, would you still love him?
Think about it.
if God becomes your enemy, will you still love him?
thus far, you have not shown that you have "analyzed" the bible word for word before posting. from the article that i linked earlier, the answer to your question can be easily found if you had read the bible in context (you read it "word for word", leads you to dubious conclusions as you already have. See the big picture). Which is the problem with non believers in general, they read the bible to find inconsistencies but end up embarassing themselves because they hadn't read it in context. karma or not, i'll leave it to your own conscience to determine whether this is really a good exercise in building up good karma, because from this side, it certainly doesn't look like good karma.
once again, read the article because obviously you haven't. The author has addressed why God isn't bloodthirsty. (your karma seems to have reduced again...)
your follow up question can be addressed by others in this thread... i look forward to discuss about the related problem of evil in the other thread on how evil originated. But i'll leave you with a verse from 1 John 4:8, "Anyone who does not love does not know God, because God is love"
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Originally posted by Asromanista2001:
LOL.....LOL......!!!!
God is my Dog.............what a killer user name !!!!
so God must have been a bloodthirsty dog !!!!!!!!!!
Ventriloquist Asromanista2001 talking to his hand puppet God is my Dog
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eh, how you know ah ???
then you must know that Rooney9 is also me lah ????
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Originally posted by Asromanista2001:
eh, how you know ah ???
then you must know that Rooney9 is also me lah ????
Why you come back from paradise? You removed the veils of the virgins and realised that they have long facial hairs and are crossed eyed.
You've been had!
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Originally posted by breytonhartge:
do not presume to speak for me when you have not walked a mile in my shoes. My loyalty and love are still with Him, that is the one fact that will NEVER change. I would rather suffer at the hand of Yahweh than anyone else... Adonai is my maker and He can do what He will.
Disciple, shut your mouth .Have you ever drunk the cup of tribulation?
Have you gone through the baptism of fire?
Have you ever been tested?
Carry the cross of Christ before you open that mouth of yours.
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Originally posted by Cck689461:
Disciple, shut your mouth .Have you ever drunk the cup of tribulation?
Have you gone through the baptism of fire?
Have you ever been tested?
Carry the cross of Christ before you open that mouth of yours.
why should I? you are not my anything... still talking about stuff you have no clue about... everyone on this earth has been tested, everyone has gone through their own baptism of fire, everyone has gone through their own cup of tribulation, why are you any more special that you get to tell people to shut up? All you have shown me is that you are boorish, arrogant, and a few other words which I will not name.
Still you have not answered my question, what principle did Yahweh not follow?
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I dunno why is it that these people resorted to name callings. is it because they are not properly taught at home, or they have been inculcated to defend the faith at all costs, whether be it bloodshed, mudslinging or name calling, all justifiable in the name of their god. this type of religiosity extremism is really dangerous. I am wondering will they go the way of those islamists terrorism route one day to achieve their aims.
one more thing, if you accuse people of boorish and arrogant, dun the same applies to you as well? take a mirror and look at yourself first and tell me what did you see.
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Originally posted by Rooney9:
I dunno why is it that these people resorted to name callings. is it because they are not properly taught at home, or they have been inculcated to defend the faith at all costs, whether be it bloodshed, mudslinging or name calling, all justifiable in the name of their god. this type of religiosity extremism is really dangerous. I am wondering will they go the way of those islamists terrorism route one day to achieve their aims.
one more thing, if you accuse people of boorish and arrogant, dun the same applies to you as well? take a mirror and look at yourself first and tell me what did you see.
look who started what first. who was the one who was not properly taught at home first? I asked a simple question and got told to shut up?? you throw fire don't expect it not to come back. who was rude first? besides, I am just stating an opinion of the TS, just like he states his own opinions to the disregard of everyone else... you accuse the believers here of so much more, yet they have shown you and others like the TS much good humour and a little remark like that and you go crying to mummy? sheesh!
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Originally posted by Rooney9:
I dunno why is it that these people resorted to name callings. is it because they are not properly taught at home, or they have been inculcated to defend the faith at all costs, whether be it bloodshed, mudslinging or name calling, all justifiable in the name of their god. this type of religiosity extremism is really dangerous. I am wondering will they go the way of those islamists terrorism route one day to achieve their aims.
one more thing, if you accuse people of boorish and arrogant, dun the same applies to you as well? take a mirror and look at yourself first and tell me what did you see.
a chickenshit buddhist monk wannabe( to escape NS reservist training) giving lecture here!
Your numerous posts are maclicious. You have a bitter face and is green with envy.
You started it. I choose when to end. You cannot have both. Understand or not? Cretin!
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Originally posted by breytonhartge:
look who started what first. who was the one who was not properly taught at home first? I asked a simple question and got told to shut up?? you throw fire don't expect it not to come back. who was rude first? besides, I am just stating an opinion of the TS, just like he states his own opinions to the disregard of everyone else... you accuse the believers here of so much more, yet they have shown you and others like the TS much good humour and a little remark like that and you go crying to mummy? sheesh!
are you blind or what? I suppose this is not blind, its selective blindness. you chose what you want to see or read. besides I wasnt saying you and you became so ultra defensive. I guess you replied to me when my thread was below yours lol. I was referring to a you know who. if you think I am referring to you, then ask yourself were you guilty of it. that is all there is to it.
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Originally posted by Rooney9:
are you blind or what? I suppose this is not blind, its selective blindness. you chose what you want to see or read. besides I wasnt saying you and you became so ultra defensive. I guess you replied to me when my thread was below yours lol. I was referring to a you know who. if you think I am referring to you, then ask yourself were you guilty of it. that is all there is to it.
please... now who is the sensitive one??? go home to mummy... or would you care for another hissy fit?? your own history of posts in this forum speaks for itself.
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when they have nothing to add, they resorted to trolling like this lol. it is a sad fact that christians are not living up to their teachings. when push comes to shove, name calling and mudslining is justifiable.I rest my case, would you?
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Originally posted by Rooney9:
when they have nothing to add, they resorted to trolling like this lol. it is a sad fact that christians are not living up to their teachings. when push comes to shove, name calling and mudslining is justifiable.I rest my case, would you?
the problem is that you have not put forward a case, just hypothetical ramblings and pointless jibes. You name call as much as the next person and then when get tagged, you go crying...
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Originally posted by 24/7:
sorry to spoil your fun, people.
I wont even bother to cut and paste but those who are genuinely seeking answers or want to reason, click here.
no offense to Buddhists or Buddhism, but for the above who might be practising adherents, since when is it good karma to criticize or misrepresent other people's beliefs? are you being consistent with your own beliefs?
Actually, the Buddha did criticize other people's religions. He criticized all the other kinds of beliefs that existed in his days. But he did so skillfully. Not that I wish to criticize anything here, but to cite an example, the Buddha has once said:
If the creator of the world entire
They call God, of every being be the Lord
Why does he order such misfortune
And not create concord?If the creator of the world entire
They call God, of every being be the Lord
Why prevail deceit, lies and ignorance
And he such inequity and injustice create?If the creator of the world entire
They call God, of every being be the Lord
Then an evil master is he,
Knowing what's right did let wrong prevail!However that being said, I do not see any points in criticizing other religions in other religions' forums.
Even if you want to criticize other people's religions - you need to have the right audience, the right person to listen to. Otherwise what's the point, like why play piano to a cow?
For example, what is the point of trying to convince a follower? There is no point. Firstly, it is unlikely if he is faithful to his belief that he will be changed by logic since he has already put faith ahead of logic. Secondly, so what if he or she is a Christian? That shouldn't bother non-Christians at all.
If you're a non-Christian, for example you are an atheist who does not believe in religions, then Christians are just fine - there is no afterlife anyway, so anyone is free to believe/not-believe in anything and that doesn't even matter a bit, so if being Christian makes you happy - fine, go ahead, nothing bad will happen to you anyway.
If you're a Buddhist, then you'll see that being Christian is also just fine the way it is - it's not like non-Buddhists will definitely go to hell anyway, since they are reborn according to karma.
Only Christians feel bothered by their own belief that non-believers go to hell.
My opinion is that, better to put our efforts in promoting what we believe to the right audience - for example, as a Buddhist, I only talk about Buddhism to those who are interested to listen. I do not disparage other religions (for the same reason as why would I want to play piano to a cow?) especially to non-Buddhists.
Time will be better spent in your own spiritual cultivation (or if you are not spiritual, in doing any other things in life). If you're a Buddhist: time is also better spent promoting the teachings of Buddhism and bringing potential people into Buddhism, than putting down the beliefs of others who are already deep into their beliefs. Time is also better spent in trying to promote and strengthen the understanding of Buddhism among so called 'Buddhists', many of whom have little or no understanding at all of dharma and hence are in danger of being converted by evangelists from other religions.
And who is to say that the other religion is not helping their followers? Their lives could very well be transformed by their religion in a positive way. So let's not discredit that.
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Well said An Eternal now.
Rooney9 should go practise his buddhist teachings other than critisizing us. And buddhsits cannot come and criticise us it is against buddhist teachings.
I am wondering is rooney9 a fake buddhist?
My life is transformed less rude to parents, less lying , less vulgarities by christians means.
My mental illness cured also by christians means.
I overcame my anxiety and can lead a cell group now.
I find christianality to be very meaningful.
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Originally posted by An Eternal Now:
Actually, the Buddha did criticize other people's religions. He criticized all the other kinds of beliefs that existed in his days. But he did so skillfully. Not that I wish to criticize anything here, but to cite an example, the Buddha has once said:
If the creator of the world entire
They call God, of every being be the Lord
Why does he order such misfortune
And not create concord?If the creator of the world entire
They call God, of every being be the Lord
Why prevail deceit, lies and ignorance
And he such inequity and injustice create?If the creator of the world entire
They call God, of every being be the Lord
Then an evil master is he,
Knowing what's right did let wrong prevail!However that being said, I do not see any points in criticizing other religions in other religions' forums.
Even if you want to criticize other people's religions - you need to have the right audience, the right person to listen to. Otherwise what's the point, like why play piano to a cow?
For example, what is the point of trying to convince a follower? There is no point. Firstly, it is unlikely if he is faithful to his belief that he will be changed by logic since he has already put faith ahead of logic. Secondly, so what if he or she is a Christian? That shouldn't bother non-Christians at all.
If you're a non-Christian, for example you are an atheist who does not believe in religions, then Christians are just fine - there is no afterlife anyway, so anyone is free to believe/not-believe in anything and that doesn't even matter a bit, so if being Christian makes you happy - fine, go ahead, nothing bad will happen to you anyway.
If you're a Buddhist, then you'll see that being Christian is also just fine the way it is - it's not like non-Buddhists will definitely go to hell anyway, since they are reborn according to karma.
Only Christians feel bothered by their own belief that non-believers go to hell.
My opinion is that, better to put our efforts in promoting what we believe to the right audience - for example, as a Buddhist, I only talk about Buddhism to those who are interested to listen. I do not disparage other religions (for the same reason as why would I want to play piano to a cow?) especially to non-Buddhists.
Time will be better spent in your own spiritual cultivation (or if you are not spiritual, in doing any other things in life). If you're a Buddhist: time is also better spent promoting the teachings of Buddhism and bringing potential people into Buddhism, than putting down the beliefs of others who are already deep into their beliefs. Time is also better spent in trying to promote and strengthen the understanding of Buddhism among so called 'Buddhists', many of whom have little or no understanding at all of dharma and hence are in danger of being converted by evangelists from other religions.
And who is to say that the other religion is not helping their followers? Their lives could very well be transformed by their religion in a positive way. So let's not discredit that.
appreciate your kind thoughts.
i don't profess to know much about about Buddhism, but i would like to share some thoughts, but might not be the right thread to do so in so i'll keep it short.
Actually, the Buddha did criticize other people's religions. He criticized all the other kinds of beliefs that existed in his days. But he did so skillfully
i don't have problems with people criticising my beliefs. but i'm pretty sure calling the God whom Christians love, among other things, "baby killer", "bloodthirsty", "angry", "vengeful", "split personality" doesn't quite qualify as respectful criticism. at least not in the way the Buddha would have done it.
The Buddha was questioning about the problem of evil. I would like to know what his answer was? Why is there suffering?
However that being said, I do not see any points in criticizing other religions in other religions' forums.
Some of us are happy to engage and interact with those who would like to do likewise.Even if you want to criticize other people's religions - you need to have the right audience, the right person to listen to. Otherwise what's the point, like why play piano to a cow?i respectfully disagree. if people are keen on exploring truth for themselves, they dont need an audience. they just need respect, open mind, and ability to reason. but i concur up to a point, where we're not to throw pearls before swines.For example, what is the point of trying to convince a follower? There is no point. Firstly, it is unlikely if he is faithful to his belief that he will be changed by logic since he has already put faith ahead of logic. Secondly, so what if he or she is a Christian? That shouldn't bother non-Christians at all.
i disagree on the bit on logic. the Christian God is not devoid of logic. the laws of logic reflect his thinking, the Christian faith is intricately related to logic too. there's no such as blind faith nor shld the true Christian advocate other believers to "just believe and not question".
Only Christians feel bothered by their own belief that non-believers go to hell.
apparently from the other "hell" threads, non Christians are bothered too. The bother that Christians feel come from a sense of empathy. from our worldview, if you see someone about to fall off a platform, would you not warn the other person about it? failure to do so is irresponsible and inhumane. you can criticize the message but not the intentions.
My opinion is that, better to put our efforts in promoting what we believe to the right audience
the scary thing is some of the feisty forumers are putting what you said into practice by doing exactly what they're doing above. hmm.
Time will be better spent in your own spiritual cultivation (or if you are not spiritual, in doing any other things in life). If you're a Buddhist: time is also better spent promoting the teachings of Buddhism and bringing potential people into Buddhism, than putting down the beliefs of others who are already deep into their beliefs. Time is also better spent in trying to promote and strengthen the understanding of Buddhism among so called 'Buddhists', many of whom have little or no understanding at all of dharma and hence are in danger of being converted by evangelists from other religions.
truth is exclusive by definition. i seem to discern an element of "my beliefs are true, yours are not" from your statement. does the Buddha claim his way to be the true way? how would you define "potential"? is proselytizing part of the Buddhist philosophy too?
I don't believe being "deep" in our beliefs means we cannot change our minds. If you use reason to make persuasive arguments, i'm sure some will be convinced if not persuaded. God made us in His image and as such we all have the capacity to rationalize and think.
i wish you're able to rein in some of your fellow believers, good effort here though and i commend you for that. but such is the Christian's lot, as Christ said in John 15:19, "you were of the world, the world would love you as its own; but because you are not of the world, but I chose you out of the world, therefore the world hates you. Remember the word that I said to you: ‘A servant is not greater than his master.’ If they persecuted me, they will also persecute you."
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Originally posted by breytonhartge:
why should I? you are not my anything... still talking about stuff you have no clue about... everyone on this earth has been tested, everyone has gone through their own baptism of fire, everyone has gone through their own cup of tribulation, why are you any more special that you get to tell people to shut up? All you have shown me is that you are boorish, arrogant, and a few other words which I will not name.
Still you have not answered my question, what principle did Yahweh not follow?
i do not need to answer your question because i really dun have to.I dun have to respect a religious bigot .
Trust me, drink the cup of tribulation, carry the cross of Christ before you have the right to talk.
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Originally posted by -StarDust-:
Well said An Eternal now.
Rooney9 should go practise his buddhist teachings other than critisizing us. And buddhsits cannot come and criticise us it is against buddhist teachings.
I am wondering is rooney9 a fake buddhist?
My life is transformed less rude to parents, less lying , less vulgarities by christians means.
My mental illness cured also by christians means.
I overcame my anxiety and can lead a cell group now.
I find christianality to be very meaningful.
if u have a mental illness, go and see a psychiatrist.
u cannot go without treatment
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Originally posted by Cck689461:
i do not need to answer your question because i really dun have to.I dun have to respect a religious bigot .
Trust me, drink the cup of tribulation, carry the cross of Christ before you have the right to talk.
why don't you go drink the cup of tribulation before you start mouthing off... who is the bigot here? the cross of Yeshua is not even understood by the church, so why should I carry the cross of christ when I do not believe in the idol that the church preaches?? Yeshua does not equal christ.
how do you know that I have not gone through my own share of tribulation? How do you know that you are the only one to go through tribulation?? or maybe you are the one that is talking big... ??
your question was why did Yahweh kill the first born of all the egyptians? because the egyptians held captive the first born of Yahweh and refused to let them go after repeatedly agreeing to do so, Yahweh sent warning after warning... still pharoh did not relent... He gave them ample warning...
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Originally posted by 24/7:
appreciate your kind thoughts.
i don't profess to know much about about Buddhism, but i would like to share some thoughts, but might not be the right thread to do so in so i'll keep it short.
i don't have problems with people criticising my beliefs. but i'm pretty sure calling the God whom Christians love, among other things, "baby killer", "bloodthirsty", "angry", "vengeful", "split personality" doesn't quite qualify as respectful criticism. at least not in the way the Buddha would have done it.
I agree that even if we want to criticize, we must criticize in a mindful, skillful, and respectful manner.
I do note that at least "angry" or "vengeful" is biblically supported, as the old testament actually said that "The LORD is a jealous and avenging God; the LORD takes vengeance and is filled with wrath. The LORD takes vengeance on his foes and maintains his wrath against his enemies."
Since Christians themselves recognise that their God at least in the old testament context is jealous, wrathful and vengeful as stated in the bible, I don't think it would be a criticism but simply a stating of biblical facts.
The Buddha was questioning about the problem of evil. I would like to know what his answer was? Why is there suffering?
In Buddhism, we do not recognise a supernatural agency/creator. We teach that everything arise due to interdependent origination. We experience rebirth and suffering due to ignorance, due to karma of our own making, due to various causes and conditions coming together.
In the case of suffering, I would like to quote from one of the forummers who said in my forum,
Ignorance is the source of all suffering, its conditions and manifests, as it is the architect of many houses built prolifically in the minds of want and hearts of desire. Ignorance is the thief of innocence and benefactor of shame. Ignorance is the instigator of greed and deliverer of pain. Ignorance is the master of ego that corrupts faith and blemishes conviction. Ignorance is the whisper of suspicion, the composer of dissension, the cultivator of jealousy, and the harvester of despair. Ignorance is the mother of fear who births the river of hate, which flows into the ocean of all sufferings. Blinded be the path of whoever follows…
In fact I would recommend reading this short article to have a better understanding of the basic core teachings of the Buddha, the four noble truths and the eight fold path, which actually covers the Fact of Suffering, the Cause of Suffering, the End of Suffering, and the Path to the End of Suffering: http://www.buddhanet.net/e-learning/8foldpath.htm
Some of us are happy to engage and interact with those who would like to do likewise.Glad to hear that. As long as both parties are willing and don't take offense or become offensive, then it's fine.i respectfully disagree. if people are keen on exploring truth for themselves, they dont need an audience. they just need respect, open mind, and ability to reason. but i concur up to a point, where we're not to throw pearls before swines.If people are keen in criticizing other religions, they do need an audience. You can't actually go to the parliament, or a church, a christian fellowship, to criticize their faith. Why? Wrong audience. Wrong venue.
Maybe in online forums there are those who are willing to debate. Then I say that's fine, but I doubt it is going to be very conducive unless the right audience are present.
If one wants to share and explore truth on an open forum, the openness and willingness must come from both sides.
If one has already decided to follow a certain faith and is practicing his faith at a rather deep level, how can you expect anything to change his mind?
i disagree on the bit on logic. the Christian God is not devoid of logic. the laws of logic reflect his thinking, the Christian faith is intricately related to logic too. there's no such as blind faith nor shld the true Christian advocate other believers to "just believe and not question".
They will attempt to support faith with logic, but logic and arguments will not easily move the believers' faith away. The faith is deeper than logic.
For example, can you claim to understand completely how God works or his plans for man? Didn't they say that God works in mysterious ways? Yet you have faith in Him, right?
That is why I said believers put faith ahead of logic, not that they are totally illogical or discard logic.
apparently from the other "hell" threads, non Christians are bothered too. The bother that Christians feel come from a sense of empathy. from our worldview, if you see someone about to fall off a platform, would you not warn the other person about it? failure to do so is irresponsible and inhumane. you can criticize the message but not the intentions.
Yes of course.
I was just making a point that non Christians do not actually have a reason to feel bothered, but apparently some felt bothered, but I don't feel bothered at all and can't see the reason why they feel so. It's like what Christians believe are their own business, why should it bother me if I don't believe in it?
the scary thing is some of the feisty forumers are putting what you said into practice by doing exactly what they're doing above. hmm.
Let them ask themselves how much they have changed the perspective of people here. Results show whether they are achieving their goals and whether this is the 'right audience'.
People believe whatever they want to believe and arguments is hardly going to change that unless one is really open minded and willing to examine, not one who has entered deeply into a religion by faith.
truth is exclusive by definition.
It actually depends. If one explores the mystical and contemplative core of religions, there is a lot to agree with mutually. If you are a true mystic that goes beyond the realm of concepts, beliefs, blind faith, into true experience, one will start to see a lot of commonalities.
Their understanding of God as the formless Ground of Being that underlies and gives rise to all existence and forms through direct experience and realization can be found in all contemplative parts of any religion. They will also not feel separate from God, they will feel their egoic self dissolve and surrender into the higher power, and being lived by that higher power. (e.g. "I have been crucified with Christ and I no longer live, but Christ lives in me. The life I live in the body, I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me." - Galatians 2:20 and "Thy will be done" (Matt. 26:42)
An example (by no means the only - there are plenty throughout ages, and Christianity is a religion with vast contemplative/mystical literature from its mystics across ages) of a Christian mystic is Bernadette Roberts, a modern Christian contemplative who noted the similarities of her experience with Buddha's.
Anyway regarding the Ground of Being, even in Buddhism we do experience this 'Ground', however what we differ in is the view - we factor in Anatta (no self) and Dependent Origination. It is not so easy to explain. I have written my experiece and realization in my own forum - though my level of realization and experience cannot be compared to some others in my forum and elsewhere.
i seem to discern an element of "my beliefs are true, yours are not" from your statement. does the Buddha claim his way to be the true way?
The Buddha recognize that other religions may lead their followers to deeper insights into the nature of reality, self, God (the Ground of Being), etc.
However they fall short of total liberation from suffering and rebirth. They do not overcome views of being or non-being, they fail to grasp the principle of dependent origination, no-self, emptiness, etc and continue to reify an ultimate substance or an ultimate source.
However we recognize that other religions may teach partial truths but not get the whole picture, and they may at most lead their followers to a very high state of rebirth. However higher states of rebirth, even the heavens in the desire realm, the form realm, and the formless realms... are temporary (even though extremely long lasting), subject to birth and death.
Even if a Christian have no idea about things like 'Ground of Being', and their understanding of God is still personal and dualistic (as a person separate from him and his life), they may still cultivate wholesome qualities and virtues and attain a higher state of rebirth.
While not completely inclusive (like some Hindus consider all religions to be ultimately teaching the same thing, the same monistic God, or Ultimate Reality) since Buddhism rejects an ultimate substance or source... Buddhism is certainly less exclusive than some religions (like, believe this or you're going to hell, etc).
how would you define "potential"?
Is he keen and open to listen and learn about other teachings beyond his current belief and faith? This is just one condition, there are others. For example one must understand his background, understanding, and gauge his ability to grasp what you're saying (e.g. you wouldn't want to debate so much with an old ah mah with high reasoning and logic - but maybe pointing things out by other means).
is proselytizing part of the Buddhist philosophy too?
Yes. During Buddha's lifetime he asked his monks to go out in different directions to spread the teachings. The means may be different though. But I am in fact sad that the 'proselytizing' of today cannot be compared to the Buddha's times, when his monks were actively going out and teaching others. Many monks today prefer to stay in their own monastery. Though my Master actually did walk throughout Taiwan in a period of six years to teach and meet new people.
When one proselytize though, one must first observe the person's conditions. Like whether that person is interested, etc, which I mentioned earlier.
I don't believe being "deep" in our beliefs means we cannot change our minds. If you use reason to make persuasive arguments, i'm sure some will be convinced if not persuaded. God made us in His image and as such we all have the capacity to rationalize and think.
From my observation, there are such people, but not so often.
For example, my Buddhist Master used to be a Christian pastor who actively preached and even wrote a book about the bible, but he eventually converted to become a monk after reading about the Buddhist teachings (there is a rather interesting history behind it).
I have also ever heard of a Buddhist nun who converted into Christianity, can't remember why though.
Most of the time, what I see is that people who convert have little understanding and faith about their own belief in the first place.
My question to you is, do you see much 'changing of minds' in those who are 'deep into their beliefs' going on in sgForums lately?
Of course I do encouarge open mindness and not following blind faith - since the Buddha have always encouraged such an attitude with the following teaching,
"So, as I said, Kalamas: 'Don't go by reports, by legends, by traditions, by scripture, by logical conjecture, by inference, by analogies, by agreement through pondering views, by probability, or by the thought, "This contemplative is our teacher." When you know for yourselves that, "These qualities are skillful; these qualities are blameless; these qualities are praised by the wise; these qualities, when adopted & carried out, lead to welfare & to happiness" — then you should enter & remain in them.' Thus was it said. And in reference to this was it said.
But when one is convinced for whatever reasons and have deep faith, this is where it is hard to change their minds.
i wish you're able to rein in some of your fellow believers, good effort here though and i commend you for that. but such is the Christian's lot, as Christ said in John 15:19, "you were of the world, the world would love you as its own; but because you are not of the world, but I chose you out of the world, therefore the world hates you. Remember the word that I said to you: ‘A servant is not greater than his master.’ If they persecuted me, they will also persecute you."
Interesting statement, and it is true.
Actually no religion can avoid persecution completely.
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Originally posted by Great Heavens!:
Hi Rooney9,
I do not mean seeing God literally. I meant seeing God in a perspective of Him changing my life.
You can't believe anything with just me talking. I doubt bombardment of bible verses will not help too.
I believed after I experience God's love and healing. Yours may be different.
God bless. :)
does healing work on every christians? it seems not. if you read the obituaries in straits times, you will wonder why it does not. some are just too young to die. i will not hesitate to be christian if healing works on every christian.