Honestly, penetration of market ? sounds like a marketing strategy concept. Maybe he phrased it wrong as its supposed to be mean like bigger place for worship.. fair enough.
One think i just worry, like a super massive church i been to in my hometown, i just worry they are going the way of a commercial entity.
If Jesus was alive, he wouldve weeped. For those that do no understand, please refer to the books of Mark and Mathew.
Originally posted by BadzMaro:Honestly, penetration of market ? sounds like a marketing strategy concept. Maybe he phrased it wrong as its supposed to be mean like bigger place for worship.. fair enough.
One think i just worry, like a super massive church i been to in my hometown, i just worry they are going the way of a commercial entity.
If Jesus was alive, he wouldve weeped. For those that do no understand, please refer to the books of Mark and Mathew.
Sounds like that story in the bible where jesus thrashes the temple telling the people not to turn it into a marketplace
Originally posted by dadeadman1337:Sounds like that story in the bible where jesus thrashes the temple telling the people not to turn it into a marketplace
Yeah man, thats the only time i know Jesus peng tok... so it must be pretty serious.
Relax. What ever the pastor want to do, let them do it. In the end, is God who judge them, not we. Anything they do which is wrong to the god but acceptable to the majority of us they will faced the punishment when they are dead. (Although they say, repent to god and you will be blah blah blah, but they die before they got the chance, if according to that, they are going to a sad sad place =X). So let them do whatever they want. Regarding to tithe and offering, it is more of our personal choice. But we still need to understand they need $ to run the church, and a place for their member to pray and worship. But I will not comment so much on how much $ is acceptable to spent on such stuff. If you are rich, you tend to spent more. And giving tithe and offering, for me, is only when you can afford to give, without expecting any return, cause we are giving to help to spread the gospel and help to pay abit for the church, not for the "blessing" in the prosperity theory. If it is for the "blessing", then they are contradicting with theirself cause they mention "Don't treat God like a vending machine, put in $$$ and expect blessing to come out". and I belive the prosperity theory treat god as one. Anyway, pastor something might talk bullshit (since human make mistake, and are not perfect), is up to us to listen and decide. If they constant bullshiting, don't go to that church and find a new one, or backslide, or change a religion. In the end, we usually have no control over this situation beside complaining and commenting on the net.
Originally posted by BadzMaro:Yeah man, thats the only time i know Jesus peng tok... so it must be pretty serious.
If the church integrates with a shopping mall, seems like the story reflects the one in the bible
The story of the poor old woman and the rich man. Jesus never said the amount given by the rich man was wrong or not enough. The poor lady with 1 quarter may only have 10 syllings, while the rich guy who donated 100 gold pieces may have 1 million gold pieces at home.
So its well, its a matter of yourself. Personally, whatever it is, in the end of the day, the Almighty will whoop out his celestial accounting calculater and do an audit on your financial records and well, u better pray that by then its all square and accountable.
Originally posted by BadzMaro:The story of the poor old woman and the rich man. Jesus never said the amount given by the rich man was wrong or not enough. The poor lady with 1 quarter may only have 10 syllings, while the rich guy who donated 100 gold pieces may have 1 million gold pieces at home.
So its well, its a matter of yourself. Personally, whatever it is, in the end of the day, the Almighty will whoop out his celestial accounting calculater and do an audit on your financial records and well, u better pray that by then its all square and accountable.
Somehow i feel that the people that want you to donate generously, are the people usually on the receiving end of the bargain
Originally posted by dadeadman1337:If the church integrates with a shopping mall, seems like the story reflects the one in the bible
yeah... so depends how the Church does it lo . Do they use tithings to subsidise and instead make things available free or almost no charge like that still acceptable.
If they are collecting rental like a proper commercial entity, that may be the problem. U must have some form of charitable purpose lo i think . Like subsidising, making things more available n F.O.C like that fair enough la.
Originally posted by BadzMaro:The story of the poor old woman and the rich man. Jesus never said the amount given by the rich man was wrong or not enough. The poor lady with 1 quarter may only have 10 syllings, while the rich guy who donated 100 gold pieces may have 1 million gold pieces at home.
So its well, its a matter of yourself. Personally, whatever it is, in the end of the day, the Almighty will whoop out his celestial accounting calculater and do an audit on your financial records and well, u better pray that by then its all square and accountable.
Sound like the prosperiy theory at work. But from what i can remember, the bible say that cause the Old Lady give her all to the Jesus, while the rich guy is simply showing off. This just show that the amount is not really important, but the attitude, heart and willingness to give matters.
Originally posted by BadzMaro:yeah... so depends how the Church does it lo . Do they use tithings to subsidise and instead make things available free or almost no charge like that still acceptable.
If they are collecting rental like a proper commercial entity, that may be the problem. U must have some form of charitable purpose lo i think . Like subsidising, making things more available n F.O.C like that fair enough la.
Do they give out subsidies for anything?
Originally posted by despondent:u dunno dun anyhow tok...chc has donated millions to relief and charitable works...they even send workers to help in relief work at bandar aceh and now haiti...beats ppl like u who are still here doing nth to help them but onli noe how to rant away at them...
CHC money come from where??? it's not chc donated the money.......dun stick gold on ur own face
Originally posted by Dark_Zero:Sound like the prosperiy theory at work. But from what i can remember, the bible say that cause the Old Lady give her all to the Jesus, while the rich guy is simply showing off. This just show that the amount is not really important, but the attitude, heart and willingness to give matters.
I found that story rather ridiculous, what would the widow eat after giving away all the money? That may not have been the crux of the story, but it certainly raises the question.
Originally posted by dadeadman1337:Somehow i feel that the people that want you to donate generously, are the people usually on the receiving end of the bargain
It depends lo. U need to know the purpose . Thats why u have to participate and know what the church is up to, doing what and where. Make sure money is going to the right peopoe and the right places. NO doubt there are those that are doing unconscionable stuffs, but there are those that are also genuine.
Originally posted by Dark_Zero:Sound like the prosperiy theory at work. But from what i can remember, the bible say that cause the Old Lady give her all to the Jesus, while the rich guy is simply showing off. This just show that the amount is not really important, but the attitude, heart and willingness to give matters.
Yup.
Originally posted by dadeadman1337:Do they give out subsidies for anything?
Dunno la. I was just saying, maybe they subsidise lo rent, and then stuffs sell extremely cheap for those poor that cannot afford can come. Something like that la, or subsidie missionary trips, cause lots of time they send out volunteers etc, all they pay themselves u know, go China , Cambodia etc.. all doctors, engineers etc go there , lack of equipment, so money should go there.
Originally posted by BadzMaro:It depends lo. U need to know the purpose . Thats why u have to participate and know what the church is up to, doing what and where. Make sure money is going to the right peopoe and the right places. NO doubt there are those that are doing unconscionable stuffs, but there are those that are also genuine.
If one day you see the pastor driving a merc, would you continue to donate? Some people say they need to be rewarded for doing god's work, but to many others, it remains an elaborate scam.
Originally posted by BadzMaro:Dunno la. I was just saying, maybe they subsidise lo rent, and then stuffs sell extremely cheap for those poor that cannot afford can come. Something like that la, or subsidie missionary trips, cause lots of time they send out volunteers etc, all they pay themselves u know, go China , Cambodia etc.. all doctors, engineers etc go there , lack of equipment, so money should go there.
In the end must see where the money goes to, they can receive X amt, but only donate Y, need to be transparent.
Originally posted by dadeadman1337:If one day you see the pastor driving a merc, would you continue to donate? Some people say they need to be rewarded for doing god's work, but to many others, it remains an elaborate scam.
Well, at an oversea's church, they gave the pastor a BMW for his bday. But he donated it back to the church as official car to pick up VIP's.
Personally i do not believe u NEED to be rewarded for God's work. He is going to be rewarded in heaven anyways tenfold, he doesnt need worry things, a man of God, unless he himself doesnt believe in heaven and the rewards that awaits him. U dun need a Merc, maybe a Camry is good enough. lol . Cause i believe as a leader, especially leader of faith, he has to show humility.
Originally posted by dadeadman1337:In the end must see where the money goes to, they can receive X amt, but only donate Y, need to be transparent.
I am sure most churches will have open accounting la. Cause Methodist churches have open accounting procedures stating what goes where n why etc. N they get to vote yes or not etc. Prioritise what for what.
Originally posted by BadzMaro:Well, at an oversea's church, they gave the pastor a BMW for his bday. But he donated it back to the church as official car to pick up VIP's.
Personally i do not believe u NEED to be rewarded for God's work. He is going to be rewarded in heaven anyways tenfold, he doesnt need worry things, a man of God, unless he himself doesnt believe in heaven and the rewards that awaits him. U dun need a Merc, maybe a Camry is good enough. lol . Cause i believe as a leader, especially leader of faith, he has to show humility.
When I hear of stories about pastors driving prestigious cars, living in bungalows, I really wonder why their community continues to support them.
Originally posted by dadeadman1337:When I hear of stories about pastors driving prestigious cars, living in bungalows, I really wonder why their community continues to support them.
Well, God gave us a brain. So.. obviously some are not using enough of the brain given to them.
Anyways its not our place to judge them.
Originally posted by BadzMaro:Well, God gave us a brain. So.. obviously some are not using enough of the brain given to them.
Anyways its not our place to judge them.
I think its the govt's place to step in if a church is run like a business, since theres issues like taxes concerned
Originally posted by dadeadman1337:I think its the govt's place to step in if a church is run like a business, since theres issues like taxes concerned
Well.. depends on the local laws there.
But if church treat like business, have to tax gua. Unless is place of worship.
Everybody likes to see CHC go down like disgraced priest Joachim Kang?
Kang misappropriated church funds. That's an offence.
Is CHC committing a Renci fraud or NKF scandal? No.
The money come from CHC members' tithing and donation. That's entirely legitimate.
Originally posted by googoomuck:Everybody likes to see CHC go down like disgraced priest Joachim Kang?
Kang misappropriated church funds. That's an offence.
Is CHC committing a Renci fraud or NKF scandal? No.
The money come from CHC members' tithing and donation. That's entirely legitimate.
wat u talking?? nkf and ren ci also got their money from donation wat... if not wat?? they rob bank ar?