What are the reasons for your belief in God
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Originally posted by laurence82:
u want her to play heavy metal sibor??
Joo you know...here is one sample
Heavy metal too loud liao lah, maybe just hard rock can liao haha... i never watch south park leh! Joo...as in JEWS? hahahah
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Originally posted by gasband:
Heavy metal too loud liao lah, maybe just hard rock can liao haha... i never watch south park leh! Joo...as in JEWS? hahahah
eh gassie
can u pls dont act ah pek or not???
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belief system can be a double edge sword. it can do the whole of good, but also can commit evil when use for the wrong purposes. you see those naive religious zealots, already lacking the knowledge of the faith, actually believed that when they die after sacrifising oneself in the name of god or holy war, will go to heaven and enjoy the nymphs and virgins.
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Originally posted by laurence82:
eh gassie
can u pls dont act ah pek or not???
I not very old, not very young also....i never act lah...
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Originally posted by gasband:
He dun care lah haha! If God exists, fine, it He doesnt, he also fine. His life goes on.
dun I or us lol. the existence of god is immaterial in our lives. we eat, drink, sex, shit, sleep, work whether god exists or not, we still do it on a daily basis. god exists, we still need to breathe. god dun exists we also need to breathe for air to survive what isnt it hehe.
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from dadeadman1337: Despite the shortfalls, why do u believe?
may i ask, despite the shortfalls of marriages, which is increasing divorce rates...why do u still believe in marriages that can turn out blissful?
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to TS,
so after almost 3 pages of posts, have u gotten a convincing enuff answer? our answer for believing in God is almost the same as for those who dun believe in gods...they also use nature to justify their beliefs...science exist because of nature...
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Originally posted by despondent:
from dadeadman1337: Despite the shortfalls, why do u believe?
may i ask, despite the shortfalls of marriages, which is increasing divorce rates...why do u still believe in marriages that can turn out blissful?
I have no opinion on marriage, since im not married. I guess most people just look at their parents as examples, while some don't believe in eternal bliss. Lets say you get married, what have you to lose(except maybe the divorce settlement)? You would probably enjoy it for some period of time. For religion you might be wasting your precious moments of life worshipping a deity, worrying away on the small things that you think does not please god. On a micro scale it might improve the lives and give hope. On a macro scale, theres always the fanaticism, more apparent in religion compared to other things like patriotism, as well as emotional distress perhaps.
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Originally posted by despondent:
to TS,
so after almost 3 pages of posts, have u gotten a convincing enuff answer? our answer for believing in God is almost the same as for those who dun believe in gods...they also use nature to justify their beliefs...science exist because of nature...
I am the TS... Most of the three pages don't really give any substantial reasons for belief. Science does exist because of nature, but the conflict between science and religion occurs when religion says otherwise, (e.g. creationism). It took hundreds of years to prove heliocentricity, which was a major disgrace to the church, which called such ideas herectical. If we had taken the church's word for it, we would have not advanced this much in science. It might take centuries to find out about the beginnings of life. Because christianity offers a plausible but improbable answer, I would not be so quick to endorse it due to lack of other explanations. As we look back on the past today, how people thought the earth was flat, the centre of the universe, think about how the future generations of humans might come to see us.
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scared - go to hell
heaven - wonderful place
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ur posts on marriage are merely going in circles...let me be more specific...when ppl marry, do we look for statistics and evidence b4 deciding whether to marry? do we ask if the rate of blissful marriages is higher or divorce rate is higher b4 deciding on marriage?
truth is we often dun look at statistics...most of us dun even look for evidence...now if i ask u...prove to me tat if i get married, i wun eventually be divorced...how would u prove tis to me?
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oh yes...it took man hundreds of yrs to discover tat earth wasnt flat but the bible in the OT alredi wrote tat earth wasnt flat...so wad a disgrace this was to humans...
btw, by saying tat we can look at our parents wif regards to marriage, u have juz answered ur own qn...there r 2 possibilities...1) our parents are happily married, 2) they are divorced...so the person in scenario 1 believes in blissful amrriages while the other in scenario 2 dun believe in blissful marriages...so wads the universal answer? person 2 will be very aggressive in trying to push away the fact that blissful marriages exist cos of wad he/she has experienced...yes, tats the word...experience...and we are toking abt PERSONAL experience cos person 1 experienced the direct opposite...so to person 1, blissful marriages do exist...
likewise, wads the diff btw christians and non-christians? the PERSONAL experiences we have that non-christians dun...you say there are sufferings, black sheep, killings within the faith, we acknowledge tat...isnt this like marriage? there are happy ones, sad ones, horrendous ones...so teh conclusion is, where do u place ur emphasis on? the positive or the negative? needless, to say where ur emphasis is depends heavily on ur experiences/non-experiences...
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Originally posted by despondent:
ur posts on marriage are merely going in circles...let me be more specific...when ppl marry, do we look for statistics and evidence b4 deciding whether to marry? do we ask if the rate of blissful marriages is higher or divorce rate is higher b4 deciding on marriage?
truth is we often dun look at statistics...most of us dun even look for evidence...now if i ask u...prove to me tat if i get married, i wun eventually be divorced...how would u prove tis to me?
Yes, we usually don't look at the statistics, I guess that kinda answers your qn on why folks get married.I can't prove that you won't be divorced, but at the moment of marriage I would assume you love your spouse. Based on the evidence there and then, i would say you would enjoy marriage, however the conditions may change
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Originally posted by despondent:
oh yes...it took man hundreds of yrs to discover tat earth wasnt flat but the bible in the OT alredi wrote tat earth wasnt flat...so wad a disgrace this was to humans...
btw, by saying tat we can look at our parents wif regards to marriage, u have juz answered ur own qn...there r 2 possibilities...1) our parents are happily married, 2) they are divorced...so the person in scenario 1 believes in blissful amrriages while the other in scenario 2 dun believe in blissful marriages...so wads the universal answer? person 2 will be very aggressive in trying to push away the fact that blissful marriages exist cos of wad he/she has experienced...yes, tats the word...experience...and we are toking abt PERSONAL experience cos person 1 experienced the direct opposite...so to person 1, blissful marriages do exist...
likewise, wads the diff btw christians and non-christians? the PERSONAL experiences we have that non-christians dun...you say there are sufferings, black sheep, killings within the faith, we acknowledge tat...isnt this like marriage? there are happy ones, sad ones, horrendous ones...so teh conclusion is, where do u place ur emphasis on? the positive or the negative? needless, to say where ur emphasis is depends heavily on ur experiences/non-experiences...
I was mistaken on the flat earth part, but the church did claim the sun revolved around the earth... In response to the experience part, that argument holds little water to convert anyone to christianity. If many from all kinds of religion lay claim to their personal experiences, all we can say is that these "experiences" are actually figments of the imagination. Unlike that of marriage, which is a seen and proven reality. Are you likely to believe a man with a bad experience with his marriage, or one who says he had an argument with Zeus? I remember this phrase which i feel makes alot of sense. "We are all atheists without regards to Thor, Amon-ra or Zeus. Some of us just go one god further"
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ok...but wad would u say if i tell u tat i dun agree wif that phrase which makes lots of sense to u? plus its non-sensical to me?
so from ur reply, u admit blissful marriages cannot be proven...actually, i am juz bringing across the pt whether it has ever occurred to u tat religion is juz like marriage...there is no universal evidence, juz personal ones...i dun deny tat ppl of other religions also has personal experiences...but the qn is does the god they experience claim to be the creator of the universe? from wad i noe. onli Allah and the christian God has made tat claim...
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one more thing...we christians dun use the experience part to convert ppl to christianity...rather we bring up the experience part juz to make it known tat our belief and faith is based oon personal experiences, not proof...to convert, we rely on preaching of the gospel, praying and fasting and then let God do the rest...unlike other religions, christianity does not teach tat humans are the ones who converts others...
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Originally posted by despondent:
ok...but wad would u say if i tell u tat i dun agree wif that phrase which makes lots of sense to u? plus its non-sensical to me?
so from ur reply, u admit blissful marriages cannot be proven...actually, i am juz bringing across the pt whether it has ever occurred to u tat religion is juz like marriage...there is no universal evidence, juz personal ones...i dun deny tat ppl of other religions also has personal experiences...but the qn is does the god they experience claim to be the creator of the universe? from wad i noe. onli Allah and the christian God has made tat claim...
So thats my point, no evidence. I joined christianity, never felt anything, and now im out. As for creation, i posted a link showing the creation story of many religions, christianity and islam are not alone...
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Originally posted by despondent:
one more thing...we christians dun use the experience part to convert ppl to christianity...rather we bring up the experience part juz to make it known tat our belief and faith is based oon personal experiences, not proof...to convert, we rely on preaching of the gospel, praying and fasting and then let God do the rest...unlike other religions, christianity does not teach tat humans are the ones who converts others...
Usually in attempted conversion, people use threats, or baseless evidence saying a man died for our sins. If what the bible says is true, jesus died for blasphemy, akin to shouting in insult against allah in afghanistan today. How the story became changed is beyond me. Also, if the human element was removed from conversion, relying just on "god", christianity would have been extinguished centuries ago
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Originally posted by dadeadman1337:
So thats my point, no evidence. I joined christianity, never felt anything, and now im out. As for creation, i posted a link showing the creation story of many religions, christianity and islam are not alone...
yes there are many other religions in this world with a creator concept, like Islam, Hinduism, Bhagavad Gita for example. so its very common till date.
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Originally posted by dadeadman1337:
Usually in attempted conversion, people use threats, or baseless evidence saying a man died for our sins. If what the bible says is true, jesus died for blasphemy, akin to shouting in insult against allah in afghanistan today. How the story became changed is beyond me. Also, if the human element was removed from conversion, relying just on "god", christianity would have been extinguished centuries ago
Agree. Some pastor even have the cheek to say that chinese's religion is suspose to be christianity blah blah blah. Never belive in that. Anyway, I belive in God and exsistence of Jesus, as it had indeed changes my life, but I will not let the thing called "Christainity" to blind me from the very fact that the other religion exsist, and other theology and sciences that seem to be oppose to what the bible have shown. My only reason in church is to praise God, acknowledge the exsistence of Jesus (be it a prophet or a son of god, which does not really mattar to me since I not 100% christian), and the bible often contain words that enlighten us, which can be applied to our daily life.
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The overall reply which I made is simply showing pacal razor is not really a good reason for anyone to thrust into a religion. Does believing in jesus cost anything ? Yes. Time, money effort and on the serious side, maybe your route to redemption (from another religion pespective) And your argument stating about bearing the consequences, all religions tell the same grandfather thing. U cannot bear the consequences of any of their curse. It is meant tat way. Wat makes u think the 18th pit of hell from the taoist perspective is easier to bear than the christian hell ? Can u bear tat consequence, or other hell consequences ? I don't believe u. Scaring people into religion by using pascal razor is simply... trying to scare children or naive people...
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Originally posted by stupidissmart:
The overall reply which I made is simply showing pacal razor is not really a good reason for anyone to thrust into a religion. Does believing in jesus cost anything ? Yes. Time, money effort and on the serious side, maybe your route to redemption (from another religion pespective) And your argument stating about bearing the consequences, all religions tell the same grandfather thing. U cannot bear the consequences of any of their curse. It is meant tat way. Wat makes u think the 18th pit of hell from the taoist perspective is easier to bear than the christian hell ? Can u bear tat consequence, or other hell consequences ? I don't believe u. Scaring people into religion by using pascal razor is simply... trying to scare children or naive people...
Erm, its Pascal's Wager, not razor, just to note.
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Originally posted by dadeadman1337:
Erm, its Pascal's Wager, not razor, just to note.
who is this Pascal's Wager
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Originally posted by Rooney9:
who is this Pascal's Wager
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pascal%27s_Wager
Or basically the gamble if god exists you benefit, but lose out if u don't believe as a reason for theistic belief
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to TS:
u remember u asked me b4 how to eliminate until christianity was left? now this is the part when the salvation issue comes in...correct me if i am wrong, but is there any other creationistic religion tat teaches salvation by grace other than christianity? in other words, u go heaven not by gd works.