What are the reasons for your belief in God
-
If you look at Communism practiced by Soviet Union and Mao's China, you would have clearly knew that it's not atheist...Stalin and Mao both built cults of themselves which place them as the "heroes" of the nations and maybe even god-like. Atheist? Or religious? (in these two cases, Stalinism and Maoism).
So what are you going to claim next, SingaporeTyrannosaur? Abortion is a product of Atheism? Or Democracy is Christian?
-
Originally posted by As romanista2001:
if you knew what the jews did, you would too..............
in any case, the Holocaust was a myth...................that's why it's illegal to deny it..........
Myth or not, it's true that people died in the death camps and it might have Jews prisoners in there with the other "undesirables" as called by the Nazis.
-
atheism, communism, .... let's introduce another useful word - Secularism (comes in both hard and soft type).
Depending on the context we are in...Sg is a multi-racial-cultural-religious society...the govt could not take sides...hence, it is prudent to adopt secularist approach - that politics and religion should be separable..even so, secularism also has its problems of being anti-religious while its main intention is to be religious-neutral.
in another country where dominantly a religion is upheld by almost all...it is usually taken that their politics often sought religious decisions - state religion, churches or mosques or temples....
no matter which mode was chosen, it would still depends on the people using it....
if one chooses to believe, by all means, good for him or her; if not to believe, also good and all the best...the problem starts when we question to the point of being vicious as to why one choose to believe or not believe....
-
Originally posted by dadeadman1337:
I believe that there has been enough elaboration on this point. Do the communists do what they do based on atheism? Is atheism a specific driving factor? The idea that gnomes may exist can cause people to go hunting for them, but for those that have no such idea, it possesses no driving force. For much of the horrors of religious governments, they do so specifically because of the religion. Driven by what they think god wants/commands. As such we can see the clear disparity between atheist governments and religious ones
Stalin is quoted as saying "You know, they are fooling us, there is no God...all this talk about God is sheer nonsense" in E. Yaroslavsky, Landmarks in the Life of Stalin, Foreign Languages Publishing House, Moscow 1940
Clergymen in Soviet Union were imprisoned or executed. School children were indoctrinated to believe that God did not exist.
PRC's Mao did the same thing.
Article 37 of the Albanian constitution of 1976 stated that "The State recognizes no religion, and supports atheistic propaganda in order to implant a scientific materialistic world outlook in people."
It's too tedious to search for similar constitution among other communist states but seek and you will find.
No matter how atheists try to deny it, there are many documented information to prove that Communist govt actively and officially 'promoted state atheism'.
-
sadly true....the issue is when things are brought to the extremes "by the people, for the people, through the people" dogmas ...
if one could use a more balanced or pragmatic or "Middle Road" approach.....hehe....the world could have been much peaceful....
hmmm...sounds like the middle path kingdom....
-
Originally posted by googoomuck:
Stalin is quoted as saying "You know, they are fooling us, there is no God...all this talk about God is sheer nonsense" in E. Yaroslavsky, Landmarks in the Life of Stalin, Foreign Languages Publishing House, Moscow 1940
Clergymen in Soviet Union were imprisoned or executed. School children were indoctrinated to believe that God did not exist.
PRC's Mao did the same thing.
Article 37 of the Albanian constitution of 1976 stated that "The State recognizes no religion, and supports atheistic propaganda in order to implant a scientific materialistic world outlook in people."
It's too tedious to search for similar constitution among other communist states but seek and you will find.
No matter how atheists try to deny it, there are many documented information to prove that Communist govt actively and officially 'promoted state atheism'.
Yes, perhaps in cases of persecution of clergymen they did so because of atheism, but as for religious governments, they persecute everyone not of their religion, the inquisition even persecuted their own. Looking away from the side of the government, we can clearly see how dangerous the religious can become. How many atheists go pointing guns in churches, compared to the terrorists of today?
-
Yet communism is a political and/or economic model thus it's not linked to any beliefs/religions.
And both Stalin and Mao created cults of themselves, promoting themselves to god-like and thus created "new" religions for their people to worship them and some still worship them today. But I still wouldn't link atheism to communism cause it's as funny as claiming that democracy is Christian.
But I understand how some feel, "it's okay to persecute others but not when it happens on us."
-
true ... there is no inherent link between atheism and communism...
communism is known to be counter-revolutionary and religion, as Mao was known to have told the then young Dalai Lama:" Religion is poison." In this sense, Communism develops into more than an economic theory as it sees religion as part of the problem in society which must be eliminated in order for progress to be made towards the ideal Communist state...
from here, communism was seen to overlap with atheism in the religious context, thus causing a mis-perception that they are one and same....thus, communism is much more than just an economic/ political model...
just like some who mix Buddhism and Taoism..so there are Budd-Taos...
ideologies do form different hybrids and branch out to different ideologies overtime distinctly from where they are originally from...just like proud Singapore Chinese is distinctly different from mainland Chinese... hehe
-
As I said. Dogma and ideas kill people not God.
It can be athiestic or theistic, it does not matter. Give the ignorant a reason to kill and they will kill. You don't need to believing in God to become a raving, killing monster. You just need to believe in something, anything that justifies the killing to another human being.
Atheism could also be used for a reason to kill just as much theism is. If somebody convinced you that being athiest, and removing all the theists was the best way forward for humanity and that one has to do what it takes to achieve that goal. It's entirely easy to see how all this could happen.
My point is not that atheism is inherenty bloodthirsty- my point is ANY idea can become a bloodthirsty and murderous idealogy under the right/wrong conditions. The problem is human beings. If athiests can disavow the actions of the communists then Christians and Muslims can disawov the actions of the crusaders and Islamic extremists as well, and what have you not.
Hence I find this focus on religion as the root of all evils ala. Dawkins greatly myopic.
At the end of the day, theism or athiesm is a philosphical framework from which you determine your worldview and actions. The decisions and actions you take with this framework is entirely up to you. But enough with the claptrap that theism inherently leads to violence. All ideas do. Being an athiest does not automatically make you more peace-loving or rational.
-
Originally posted by SingaporeTyrannosaur:
As I said. Dogma and ideas kill people not God.
It can be athiestic or theistic, it does not matter. Give the ignorant a reason to kill and they will kill. You don't need to believing in God to become a raving, killing monster. You just need to believe in something, anything that justifies the killing to another human being.
Atheism could also be used for a reason to kill just as much theism is. If somebody convinced you that being athiest, and removing all the theists was the best way forward for humanity and that one has to do what it takes to achieve that goal. It's entirely easy to see how all this could happen.
My point is not that atheism is inherenty bloodthirsty- my point is ANY idea can become a bloodthirsty and murderous idealogy under the right/wrong conditions. The problem is human beings. If athiests can disavow the actions of the communists then Christians and Muslims can disawov the actions of the crusaders and Islamic extremists as well, and what have you not.
Hence I find this focus on religion as the root of all evils ala. Dawkins greatly myopic.
At the end of the day, theism or athiesm is a philosphical framework from which you determine your worldview and actions. The decisions and actions you take with this framework is entirely up to you. But enough with the claptrap that theism inherently leads to violence. All ideas do. Being an athiest does not automatically make you more peace-loving or rational.
Of course any ideology can, but its the extent that matters. I dont think an atheist would want to give up his life in a suicide attack, unlike the many religious that would do it today. The fact that religion advocates life after death shows how dangerous it is as it convinces people that dying in this life in an attack is somehow good, making them a martyr
-
People have been known to kill for their tribes or race or country or hatred against that of another race or tribe, hatred toward the minorities or hatred towards another religion.
hatred against other group of people have always been created and manipulated POLITICALLY to gain advantage socially and politically and or economically against the other group of people. You can blame the politicians for starting genocide and wars. religious reasons for them are just made up excuses the real puppeteer are the crook and corrupt politicians. -
Originally posted by Miracles&Prophecies:
People have been known to kill for their tribes or race or country or hatred against that of another race or tribe, hatred toward the minorities or hatred towards another religion.
hatred against other group of people have always been created and manipulated POLITICALLY to gain advantage socially and politically and or economically against the other group of people. You can blame the politicians for starting genocide and wars. religious reasons for them are just made up excuses the real puppeteer are the crook and corrupt politicians.Don't forget popes and bishops
-
Originally posted by dadeadman1337:
Of course any ideology can, but its the extent that matters. I dont think an atheist would want to give up his life in a suicide attack, unlike the many religious that would do it today. The fact that religion advocates life after death shows how dangerous it is as it convinces people that dying in this life in an attack is somehow good, making them a martyr
Erm, the data indicates your conclusion is not correct. You are assuming that an atheist will be egoistic in nature and places top value in his own existence. Not believing in God does not automatically mean you'll do that, other things can take the place of the instinct of survival.
Athiests do give up their lives for their cause, history is full of examples.
As in athiest- I refer to those who do not believe in an afterlife and reward after death as part of their ideas.
Just look at the amount of people who gave up their lives for revolutions of order that had very little to do with promising an afterlife. If anything Communism is a good indication of that. The Chinese suicide human-wave attacks in the Korean war, red terrorist suicide bombings. What have you not.
People are willing to die for ideas. If there's an afterlife or not is often irrelevant. All you need to do is to work them up to believe that their own life/ the individual is unimportant and that it serves the greater good. You'll have legions ready to die for you even if dying means the end for them, no reward.
Afterlife not needed.
-
Originally posted by SingaporeTyrannosaur:
As I said. Dogma and ideas kill people not God.
It can be athiestic or theistic, it does not matter. Give the ignorant a reason to kill and they will kill. You don't need to believing in God to become a raving, killing monster. You just need to believe in something, anything that justifies the killing to another human being.
Atheism could also be used for a reason to kill just as much theism is. If somebody convinced you that being athiest, and removing all the theists was the best way forward for humanity and that one has to do what it takes to achieve that goal. It's entirely easy to see how all this could happen.
My point is not that atheism is inherenty bloodthirsty- my point is ANY idea can become a bloodthirsty and murderous idealogy under the right/wrong conditions. The problem is human beings. If athiests can disavow the actions of the communists then Christians and Muslims can disawov the actions of the crusaders and Islamic extremists as well, and what have you not.
Hence I find this focus on religion as the root of all evils ala. Dawkins greatly myopic.
At the end of the day, theism or athiesm is a philosphical framework from which you determine your worldview and actions. The decisions and actions you take with this framework is entirely up to you. But enough with the claptrap that theism inherently leads to violence. All ideas do. Being an athiest does not automatically make you more peace-loving or rational.
I don't believe anyone is claiming being atheist=more peace-loving.
And I agree that some atheists are just as bad as religious extremists.
What are you implying here: "If athiests can disavow the actions of the communists then Christians and Muslims can disawov the actions of the crusaders and Islamic extremists as well, and what have you not."?
Look through our human history and tell me how many times is God/gods used as excuses for murdering of others? Why did crusaders shout "Deus Vult" as they cut down Jews, Muslims and even the native Christians when they capture Jerusalem? Or Islamic terrorists shouting "Allahu Akbar" before they blow themselves up to kill westerners and even their fellow Muslims?
-
Well extremism is really deadly and tat is why violent communism, nazis and also religious extremisms all should be stopped. If u find tat there r too many people to have died in such conflicts, then u should realise why we fear when we see religions getting more extreme and invasive
-
Originally posted by stupidissmart:
Well extremism is really deadly and tat is why violent communism, nazis and also religious extremisms all should be stopped. If u find tat there r too many people to have died in such conflicts, then u should realise why we fear when we see religions getting more extreme and invasive
yes religious extremism is dangerous. but then illiteracy and economic realities also played a part.usually the people who are illiterate and poor from the slums are targeted by terrorists, who uses religion as an excuse to carry out targets. but then highly educated people are also susceptible as they believed they are fighting a holy and just war / cause.
-
So at the end of the day, the real enemy is extremism is it not? All the debate about whose idea is at fault is just a red herring, if anything it creates more barriers and breeds more extremism on both sides.
You cannot fight extremism with extremism. Trying to tell an extremist that he is stupid or dumb for believing the way he does will only entrench him in that mindset and make him even less willing to listen. If one does not build bridges, then all is lost.
You can believe that another person is mistaken in his conception of reality, but it's another to assume that that other person is stupid or irrational becaue of that mistaken belief. How we treat others who believe differently from us is extremely important.
-
If communism is still a problem today, I will voice out my unhappiness over communism as well. If nazism is still around, I will also condemn it. Now wat is the extremism left in the world ? Issues such as pastor condemning buddhism, AWARE, fight against 379A and terrorism etc r really signs of extremisms
But I got to say tat saying another religion and all its believers are stupid etc is not helping. But then again how to help ? I used to think tat having more people not believing in religion or having doubt in it is the best way
-
Originally posted by SingaporeTyrannosaur:
So at the end of the day, the real enemy is extremism is it not? All the debate about whose idea is at fault is just a red herring, if anything it creates more barriers and breeds more extremism on both sides.
You cannot fight extremism with extremism. Trying to tell an extremist that he is stupid or dumb for believing the way he does will only entrench him in that mindset and make him even less willing to listen. If one does not build bridges, then all is lost.
You can believe that another person is mistaken in his conception of reality, but it's another to assume that that other person is stupid or irrational becaue of that mistaken belief. How we treat others who believe differently from us is extremely important.
Tell me how should we treat people like that Pastor who blast another religion?
-
forgive but not forget la...
an idea-less world is an unimaginative world...drifting quietly along with space and time....obsession is the root cause of bloating a simple idea into something extreme....
but to what end is of concern....sometimes it can be very difficult to decipher what is good and what is bad....but it doesn't mean all extremes are bad...it depends....
Marconi was blamed for being a ridiculous dreamer...extremely passionate in his pursuit of some stupid thing called wireless ideas.... that we can communicate without using wires...till leading scientists of the day ridicule him for being the world's most stupidest man...
Radio was born - and with that, the wired world suddenly turned into wireless....it was an extreme belief and an impossible stupid idea in his time that made mobile phones and all others possible.
Just to share...
-
I think u mixed up ideology extremism and people having dreams and aspiration.
-
Originally posted by SingaporeTyrannosaur:
So at the end of the day, the real enemy is extremism is it not? All the debate about whose idea is at fault is just a red herring, if anything it creates more barriers and breeds more extremism on both sides.
You cannot fight extremism with extremism. Trying to tell an extremist that he is stupid or dumb for believing the way he does will only entrench him in that mindset and make him even less willing to listen. If one does not build bridges, then all is lost.
You can believe that another person is mistaken in his conception of reality, but it's another to assume that that other person is stupid or irrational becaue of that mistaken belief. How we treat others who believe differently from us is extremely important.
I find confusion about the concept of extremism. How can it be considered extreme when someone takes the text of say the Koran or the OT literally? One cannot be certain that their interpretation of the text is correct, yet the so-called "extremists" can argue that they are following scripture to the letter. Extremism seems to be nothing more than a label for those who disagree with the interpretation of the masses. The extremists might be the moderates while the moderates the "softies"
-
an ideology could be formed based on a person's life experiences, dreams and hopes rolled into one grand theory or action....
unless it is stolen from another without much thoughts ..piecing together like a pretty vase...nice to look at but empty
-
Originally posted by Fcukpap:
an ideology could be formed based on a person's life experiences, dreams and hopes rolled into one grand theory or action....
unless it is stolen from another without much thoughts ..piecing together like a pretty vase...nice to look at but empty
hey are you a christian? tell the truth
-
Originally posted by Fcukpap:
an ideology could be formed based on a person's life experiences, dreams and hopes rolled into one grand theory or action....
unless it is stolen from another without much thoughts ..piecing together like a pretty vase...nice to look at but empty
hey are you a christian? tell the truth