Why do you pray to something you cannot see/hear or find any credible evidence of its existence? I would welcome some opinions but not those using nature as an example
it lives in the figment of imagination of humans. the concept of god was invented and created by god in the ancient past, cos humans then were primitive and did not understand that thunder, rain, sun, moon, the 4 seasons, high/low tide, earthquake, tsunami, tidal waves etc, were the works or acts of god. so humans then prayed to the god of sun, moon, tree, sea, volcanoes for protection and blessings for their tribe.
Well, i have to make it clear that it was in the past that I chose to accept the faith before I go on to reply.
I sincerely accepted jesus, god, for reason that he is God, he is the one. I did not expect great stuff from jesus, god
. . . .. but . . .. . .. .
well long story.
dun use nature? then u are going to be disappointed cos u wun get a convincing answer, trust me...cos faith is sth tat cannot be proven...and wad evidence is there tat is not part of nature??? cheers!!!
To comfort oneself.
To seek advice and to proactive what we do.
Originally posted by despondent:dun use nature? then u are going to be disappointed cos u wun get a convincing answer, trust me...cos faith is sth tat cannot be proven...and wad evidence is there tat is not part of nature??? cheers!!!
If you wish to use nature as an example, then everyone else will argue that "their God" created it, thus i see no point. Another thing is that using nature, something like the Intelligent Design idea, is explained by evolution.
If everything has to be seen physically by you before you can believe, then there are many things you should not believe in. At the end of the day, like what Jesus said, even if they see someone being raised from the dead, they may not necessarily believe. My only food for thought is that, believe in Jesus or not, its really up to you. If you can argue that Jesus is not real, someone else in the opposite can argue otherwise. The absence of physical evidence does not negate the possibility that something does exist. I do not see any negative consquences for someone to believe in Jesus to be on the safe side, to err on the side of caution. Because at the end of the day, if Jesus turns out to be real, and which means what he said is all real, then everyone knows what happens to those who refuse to believe. But if you strongly believe that Jesus is not real, then fine because at the end of the day, only you suffer the consequences or reap the benefits of your own belief. Thats if you are willing to suffer the consequences if Jesus turned out to be real.
u should believe in jesus christ ! Otherwise if he is right, u will go to hell and tat is damn serious !
Likewise u should believe in the lottery winner ticket in your junk email ! Because if they r right, u get ten million dollar and if u r wrong, u only lose a few thousands
U should also believe in writing a "pig" word on your face if u get mumps. Because it helps healing and tat is pretty important too. Wat is the harm of walking around with a pig word written on your face ?
U should believe in scientology/hindusim/taoism/islam/moonies etc because if they r right, u r still going to go to hell, and tat is as serious as not believing in jesus
If u in anything just because of the fear of the consequences they state, then u r naive and u r gonna be in for a lot of troubles. I think believe in something just because it states u should is dangerous.
sounded like MLM and insurance to me.
Originally posted by gasband:If everything has to be seen physically by you before you can believe, then there are many things you should not believe in. At the end of the day, like what Jesus said, even if they see someone being raised from the dead, they may not necessarily believe. My only food for thought is that, believe in Jesus or not, its really up to you. If you can argue that Jesus is not real, someone else in the opposite can argue otherwise. The absence of physical evidence does not negate the possibility that something does exist. I do not see any negative consquences for someone to believe in Jesus to be on the safe side, to err on the side of caution. Because at the end of the day, if Jesus turns out to be real, and which means what he said is all real, then everyone knows what happens to those who refuse to believe. But if you strongly believe that Jesus is not real, then fine because at the end of the day, only you suffer the consequences or reap the benefits of your own belief. Thats if you are willing to suffer the consequences if Jesus turned out to be real.
Yes, there are many things we need not believe in, but whether we do or not has no bearing on our current lives. In the case of religion, its effects are far reaching, thus the need to have a stricter criteria to face it. As for the argument of caution, if you wish to be on the safe side, you might as well join every religion. This alternative renders the argument moot
Originally posted by stupidissmart:u should believe in jesus christ ! Otherwise if he is right, u will go to hell and tat is damn serious !
Well, i mean if hell turns out to be true, going to hell isnt the coolest thing, pardon the pun, so you right, its damn serious!
Likewise u should believe in the lottery winner ticket in your junk email ! Because if they r right, u get ten million dollar and if u r wrong, u only lose a few thousands
Oh no! Losing a few thousands is a BIG thing, at least to me! But why compare this to what I said? Does believing in Jesus cost us anything? Did anyone say you have to pay anything to get anything?
U should also believe in writing a "pig" word on your face if u get mumps. Because it helps healing and tat is pretty important too. Wat is the harm of walking around with a pig word written on your face ?
Now now, that is alternative healing and seriously, tell me if it works. that is something new.
U should believe in scientology/hindusim/taoism/islam/moonies etc because if they r right, u r still going to go to hell, and tat is as serious as not believing in jesus
thats right! for every decision you make, you either reap the benefits or you suffer the consequences! Thats all I am saying along! If you want to believe in Jesus, you either reap the benefits or suffer the consequences! If you want to believe in Taoism, you either reap the benefits or you suffer the consequences! Sama sama for any other thing or any other decision you make. My only food for thought is always, are we able to afford those consequences? Its not just in your faith or belief, in every decision in life, your career, your family, especially a big decision, dun you ask yourself whether that would either bring you great benefit or if it was a wrong one, are we able to bear the consequence? At the end of the day, no one can force you to make a decision for YOUR OWN LIFE. You decide to believe in Jesus, cool! You decide not to, cool! I do not go around telling people that they suck just because they have a different faith from me you know hurhurhur
If u in anything just because of the fear of the consequences they state, then u r naive and u r gonna be in for a lot of troubles. I think believe in something just because it states u should is dangerous.
But of course! I believe in Jesus because I do. My mother believes in Taoism because she does. When people shares with her the gospel, she dismisses it because if she doesnt believe in Jesus, she certainly doesnt believe all that bullcrap about going to heaven or hell just becos of a decision. And like I said, I never said anyone should believe because of the consequences. I am only saying IF THIS WAS ALL TRUE, are you able to handle the consequences? And some people would say YES I CAN, then cool! Why should anyone has anything to say then if someone is willing to take that risk and believes in what he thinks he should believe? I certainly think so because being the only believer in my entire family history allows me and the rest of my family members to respect and appreciate each other's diverse beliefs.
Originally posted by Rooney9:sounded like MLM and insurance to me.
I do not deny that religion nowadays are being mooted around like a business.
hahaha thats what some people are doing and why? the reason was cause of fear of the unknown and fear of the supernatural. some wants prosperity and blessings of good life and good fortune/luck, that is why they go pray or worship to this god or that god. thats human nature for you.
when life dun turn out the way they want it to be, or they encounter some difficulties in life or bereavement, turning to a god is one good way to relieve emotional turmoil they are facing in their lives. different people have different reasons getting involved in their religions.
Originally posted by gasband:I do not deny that religion nowadays are being mooted around like a business.
but 2 millennium ago, MLM and insurance were not around yet.
so religion using of fear of the unknown and supernatural existed back then, from enticing and attracting people into the religion besides using fear to scare the shit out of them.
Originally posted by Rooney9:hahaha thats what some people are doing and why? the reason was cause of fear of the unknown and fear of the supernatural. some wants prosperity and blessings of good life and good fortune/luck, that is why they go pray or worship to this god or that god. thats human nature for you.
when life dun turn out the way they want it to be, or they encounter some difficulties in life or bereavement, turning to a god is one good way to relieve emotional turmoil they are facing in their lives. different people have different reasons getting involved in their religions.
Precisely, it makes people feel better, however this is no argument for it being true though
Originally posted by dadeadman1337:Yes, there are many things we need not believe in, but whether we do or not has no bearing on our current lives. In the case of religion, its effects are far reaching, thus the need to have a stricter criteria to face it. As for the argument of caution, if you wish to be on the safe side, you might as well join every religion. This alternative renders the argument moot
I think in all my posts about beliefs and religion, past or future, I have only followed one principle. I state my beliefs but I never said it was the holy truth.
In this case, everyone makes decisions all the time. And like I said, every decision may comes either with a benefit to you or there may be consequences. Knowing the consequences does not necessarily put a person off making that decision. A person may resign from his job because he is damn unhappy but he knows the consequence is that his family may need to suffer for a short while until he finds a new job. He knows that consequence but he was prepared to take it because he was really unhappy. All I am saying is, know the consequences and benefits of every single decision you make. If at the end of the day, making the decision to not believe in Jesus after understanding both the benefits and consequences of not believing, then its your decision! No one should have anything to say then!
Originally posted by dadeadman1337:Precisely, it makes people feel better, however this is no argument for it being true though
I agree with you but i just have to add that it is no argument for it being untrue too
Originally posted by gasband:I think in all my posts about beliefs and religion, past or future, I have only followed one principle. I state my beliefs but I never said it was the holy truth.
In this case, everyone makes decisions all the time. And like I said, every decision may comes either with a benefit to you or there may be consequences. Knowing the consequences does not necessarily put a person off making that decision. A person may resign from his job because he is damn unhappy but he knows the consequence is that his family may need to suffer for a short while until he finds a new job. He knows that consequence but he was prepared to take it because he was really unhappy. All I am saying is, know the consequences and benefits of every single decision you make. If at the end of the day, making the decision to not believe in Jesus after understanding both the benefits and consequences of not believing, then its your decision! No one should have anything to say then!
Everyone has the right to make their own decision regarding this, but this thread asks why you do, and provides the alternative view for a debate
I am a christian and i strongly stand by my beliefs and faith but I am also understanding the shortfalls of this religion and in fact any other religions.
A pastor in UK ask everyone to pay 50 pounds for every blessing he gives.
The medium that conducts my father's funeral ask for 10K to so called send my father to heaven.
I think every religion has all these black sheeps and its important for people who believes in them to differentiate between the object of your belief vs the organisation
Originally posted by gasband:I agree with you but i just have to add that it is no argument for it being untrue too
Yes, it provides no argument either way, yet i hear many people using the moral argument and religions' benefits as reasons for their belief, thus my comment
Originally posted by gasband:I am a christian and i strongly stand by my beliefs and faith but I am also understanding the shortfalls of this religion and in fact any other religions.
A pastor in UK ask everyone to pay 50 pounds for every blessing he gives.
The medium that conducts my father's funeral ask for 10K to so called send my father to heaven.
I think every religion has all these black sheeps and its important for people who believes in them to differentiate between the object of your belief vs the organisation
Despite the shortfalls why do you believe?
Originally posted by dadeadman1337:Yes, it provides no argument either way, yet i hear many people using the moral argument and religions' benefits as reasons for their belief, thus my comment
Haha but my friend, you got to understand! You are standing on the ground that all these God or gods do not exist. Christians however believe that everything originates from God! They will say they are right which of cos you do not agree. You will say your point is right which of cos they will nto agree. See the similarity here? Christians believe what they believe, you believe what you believe. This is not about right or wrong. This is just about different beliefs!
I dun blame believers to think for themselves if the concept of god might be invented by men, cos it has been like this for the past 2 millenia, generations after generations to no avail.
I am wondering if some brave and intelligent believers might be willing to explore if there is a possibility of god being invented by men and how religion came about due to ignorance and fear.
Originally posted by gasband:Haha but my friend, you got to understand! You are standing on the ground that all these God or gods do not exist. Christians however believe that everything originates from God! They will say they are right which of cos you do not agree. You will say your point is right which of cos they will nto agree. See the similarity here? Christians believe what they believe, you believe what you believe. This is not about right or wrong. This is just about different beliefs!
but you can change your belief system if something convinces you otherwise or you can do some soul searching yourself. in the meantime, do use common sense and willing to challenge conventional truths, esp from an era of 2000 years ago.
Originally posted by dadeadman1337:Despite the shortfalls why do you believe?
Cos I always believe that there is a God out there. I did not buy the big bang theory. You ask me to show you physical evidence i do not have. Though not intensive, I did some questioning on various reglions from various people and I ended up believing in Jesus some 16 years ago.I have personal experiences that came later in my life on why I continued in my faith in Jesus. I do feel sad seeing the state of some churches nowadays but I was very clear that I believe in Jesus not these churches. But thats another story.
And because I have talked to so many people, I also came to understand the meaning of religious tolerance, to agree to disagree. I am very happy to say that I can a discussion with most muslim friends or buddhist friends or taoist friends or homosexual friends on my beliefs and they still count me as their good friends. I do not believe in being pushy. I state my beliefs and thats it, i will never say you SHOULD or SHOULD NOT. No one can make that decision for you.