Healings are craps!
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well, i am juz telling TS not to make such a sweeping statement...btw, TS has disappeared...another troll?
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Originally posted by googoomuck:
Wrong answer!
In that case, welcome to my spaceship "sibehhochio", we got DNA replicator installed. Can cure any disease by replacing dead cells.
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Apparently god only chooses to "heal" a small number of people, but chooses to let millions die in tsunamis and typhoons? Hmm it seems very weird. The only "miracle" that probably would not be explained by the placebo effect would be the regrowth of an amputated limb. Has this ever happened?
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i have heard testimonies of such miracles although i have not witnessed it...of cuz ppl can argue tat such testimonies are fabricated but its debatable so i wun read too much into them...
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Originally posted by dadeadman1337:
Apparently god only chooses to "heal" a small number of people, but chooses to let millions die in tsunamis and typhoons? Hmm it seems very weird. The only "miracle" that probably would not be explained by the placebo effect would be the regrowth of an amputated limb. Has this ever happened?
good question asked, but there wil never be a reply form god. what you will get instead are a lot of different replies to this question from the believers. thsi is what I called paradoxes, such as, if god is so almighty, can ask god to create something he cant lift? if he cant, he cant be almighty, if he can, he also isnt almighty. see the paradox here?
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the question to ask god is, why are there diseases and illnesses in his created world? since believers claimed god created us and everything and anything, why are there even all these things that exists in the world, like poverty, diseases, sicknesses, deformity, natural diasters?
as usual, there will be a host of replies from believers replying this question. you will never obtain a coherent and satisfactory reply from them, cos they are not god, so they are not in a position to reply meant for god you see. also their replies will generate a lot of paradoxes.
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Originally posted by Rooney9:
as usual, there will be a host of replies from believers replying this question. you will never obtain a coherent and satisfactory reply from them, cos they are not god, so they are not in a position to reply meant for god you see. also their replies will generate a lot of paradoxes.
:)
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in case u do not noe...the replies and arguments atheists present will also have paradoxes...like i said, all these disagreements happen due to a diff preconceived mindset abt certain issues and definitions...
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Originally posted by despondent:
in case u do not noe...the replies and arguments atheists present will also have paradoxes...like i said, all these disagreements happen due to a diff preconceived mindset abt certain issues and definitions...
However when we talk about like placebo effect has been scientific proven yet any 'healing' by 'god' has all been said with no basis but more superstition and mislead beliefs.
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Originally posted by despondent:
in case u do not noe...the replies and arguments atheists present will also have paradoxes...like i said, all these disagreements happen due to a diff preconceived mindset abt certain issues and definitions...
It is not possible to technically or scientifically classify spiritual notions, nor calculate spiritual impact since there is no meter to gauge with more use of 'spiritual healing' or more 'interactions' with God can help.
Since there is no 'spiritometer' or 'godometer', it is just perceived individually and even 'holy individuals' cannot say which summoning/calling/healing was better/effective since some ppl get healed and get infected again, some healed permanently, some never got healed, it is kind of a moot point to call it truth.
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If someone was to take statistics about the number of healings in a given number of people, the numbers of those healed would be too low to attribute it to any given factor, nothing different from chance. An experiment was done before to see if prayer actually helped, which was proved otherwise. Theists claim the experiment was unreliable as you "cannot test god". Christians can pull up stories of certain individuals being healed and such, but when you look at the bigger picture, such stories amount to nothing but sheer chance.
I saw a video on youtube, the root of all evil and there was a portion of it talking about the miracles at lourdes (i think) where the faithful would immerse themselves in water hoping to be cured. 66 miracles, and 80 million visitors over the century. The work of God?
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but u need to understand that from christian perspective, nth happen by chance...this thing abt chance is sth no-god believers will believe in...
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Originally posted by despondent:
but u need to understand that from christian perspective, nth happen by chance...this thing abt chance is sth no-god believers will believe in...
ya la, christians regard that as god's will.hahahahha
i believe in luck, too bad , hahahha
will or no will, not my business, i no christian
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Originally posted by despondent:
but u need to understand that from christian perspective, nth happen by chance...this thing abt chance is sth no-god believers will believe in...
yes you hit the nail or jackpot. its the natural phenomenon or nature. the universe is not governed by any supernatural being, make this clear. if there is a supernatural being out there, cant imagine it working 24/7 all the time isnt it.
when there is an earthquake, its 2 tectonic plates that move against or from one another, not some divine being willed it to have earthquake.
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then ur definition of supernatural is flawed...cos if there is God, then he is God simply cos He is/can be there 24/7...allowing sth to happen is diff from not noeing sth will happen...
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the thing is there is no such thing as divine being governing the whole universe. its just the natural phenomenon at work, doesnt need the work of a divine being. till date, we are still debating whether god exists or not, dun we.
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Originally posted by despondent:
but u need to understand that from christian perspective, nth happen by chance...this thing abt chance is sth no-god believers will believe in...
If what you say is true, then i suppose god has no issue with the murder of millions in the holocaust, natural disasters... etc
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tats when the issue of noeing from beginning to end comes in...we blame Him for the suffering cos we do not noe the end of time but God noes and becos He noes, he allows bad things to happen...again this is according to christian perspective...
if u cane ur child when he is 3 yrs old...he probably wun fully understand y u r causing him to suffer pain...but when he becomes older, he will look back and finally understand why u caned him...process this on a greater scale...
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Originally posted by despondent:
tats when the issue of noeing from beginning to end comes in...we blame Him for the suffering cos we do not noe the end of time but God noes and becos He noes, he allows bad things to happen...again this is according to christian perspective...
if u cane ur child when he is 3 yrs old...he probably wun fully understand y u r causing him to suffer pain...but when he becomes older, he will look back and finally understand why u caned him...process this on a greater scale...
Let me use your example of the child. The caning is to teach a lesson, send a message. However what can the genocides and deaths from natural disasters tell us? Furthermore the disasters mostly hit the impoverished.
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wad can teach genocides teach us? this qn was asked cos u do not noe wad the end result would be which may come many yrs from now...u are using current knowledge and logic to try and figure out wad could onli be seen in fture...to a 3yr old kid, how does the caning teach him? can he figure tat out at an age of 3yrs old?
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Originally posted by despondent:
wad can teach genocides teach us? this qn was asked cos u do not noe wad the end result would be which may come many yrs from now...u are using current knowledge and logic to try and figure out wad could onli be seen in fture...to a 3yr old kid, how does the caning teach him? can he figure tat out at an age of 3yrs old?
Yes, perhaps. However why do you take this stance on theism? It is also equally or more likely that there is not supernatural being at all.
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from ur posts, it seems like u r seeking...gd...well, let me give u an analogy...tis may not directly answer ur qn and this is not aimed at proving God's existence but its sth for u to ponder abt...
marriage...sth most of us would desire to be everlasting if we do get married...but when it comes to marriage, we have 2 sides both equally likely...everlasting blissful marriage or marriage tat end wif divorce...qn: how do u noe ur marriage wun end in a divorce 30yrs after u marry? where is the evidence for that? take note, both outcomes are equally likely(divorce rates are increasing). why do we still choose to get married despite such overwhelming statistics against blissful marriages?
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Originally posted by despondent:
from ur posts, it seems like u r seeking...gd...well, let me give u an analogy...tis may not directly answer ur qn and this is not aimed at proving God's existence but its sth for u to ponder abt...
marriage...sth most of us would desire to be everlasting if we do get married...but when it comes to marriage, we have 2 sides both equally likely...everlasting blissful marriage or marriage tat end wif divorce...qn: how do u noe ur marriage wun end in a divorce 30yrs after u marry? where is the evidence for that? take note, both outcomes are equally likely(divorce rates are increasing). why do we still choose to get married despite such overwhelming statistics against blissful marriages?
Well in marriage it gives you something to hope for, it gives the prospects of a joyous outcome. You won't know whether or not your marriage would be a happy one, but it would be a gamble you would be willing to take as the returns might be greater than if you didn't. However in theism, this reflects to Pascal's Wager, where if there's a god you benefit from theism but do not lose if there isn't a god. However i put it to you that christianity has no more evidence supporting it than any other religion, thus it makes no sense to follow the wager in the direction of Chrisitanity
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but wif divorce rates increasing...is tat hope still so hopeful? yet i can tell u ppl will not stop desiring marriage...the onli reason y christianity is followed is cos it gives an account of the origin of life whereas most religions dun...for eg...buddha is nvr seen as the originator of life...christianity is not saying these gods nvr existed... its saying tat these gods are not the originator of life...
so going by the wager, shld we believe in religions where the gods are not supreme(ultimate one) or shld we believe in God tat is taught to be supreme?
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Originally posted by despondent:
but wif divorce rates increasing...is tat hope still so hopeful? yet i can tell u ppl will not stop desiring marriage...the onli reason y christianity is followed is cos it gives an account of the origin of life whereas most religions dun...for eg...buddha is nvr seen as the originator of life...christianity is not saying these gods nvr existed... its saying tat these gods are not the originator of life...
so going by the wager, shld we believe in religions where the gods are not supreme(ultimate one) or shld we believe in God tat is taught to be supreme?
All religions would claim their god(s) to be supreme, thus i don't see where the argument is going. The divorce rates might be increasing, but the difference is that every marriage is different, thus it cannot be used as a generalisation. On the other hand marriage is also seen as more traditional, and the numbers of people co habiting without marriage have also gone up.