Originally posted by dkcx:When is anyone ever healed by god?
When someone who is terminally ill and without any medication can suddenly be well just because he prays and this is well documented to ensure its not some story written by someone, i might consider believing
There have been many, even in Singapore! Last year there was this massive healing rally at SIS, and what happened was that people were healed after praying. But before some were allowed to testify, they were asked to go back to the doctors to verify if the illnesses had really gone.
Originally posted by Fantagf:
If you wanna choose a religion to believe and practise don't just look at one aspect. I am speaking according to experience.Yes, indeed there are cases whereby people are healed. As I said, it is according to the will of God, if he wants to heal then he will. I also heard of many cases that the sick who go for healing rallies are not healed.
To get healing there is no checklist, you can't say "oh they christian they never get well haha God is fake" because there is a combination of factors. Non-believers get healed and don't get healed; Believers also get hailed and also don't get healed. It's circumstantial. I know this sounds like a cop-out, but it really depends. Alot of the results are to do with faith - whether you believe in God's healing power or not. But sometimes people are skeptical and still get healed anyway, because God's gracious like that, or He is trying to convict you.
Of course believing in God doesnt give anyone definite healing or physical immunity, because we're only human. And being weak is only human. It's only that when I believe in God, I have the power to pray illnesses away through faith.
Sometimes illnesses can't go away merely through prayer though... it depends on the root. Like anger, for instance? If you have a heart disease that is because of hatred, it is likely you'll only be made well after you forgive.
Just an example. My brother had persistent viral warts on his toes that get growing back. But after he forgave someone he had a grudge against, they never came back. Seems coiincidental right, but it is scientifically proven alot of ailments arise from stress/anger/hatred etc. It's not only airy-fairy faith.
Originally posted by googoomuck:Can a book cure cancer?
A book can't cure cancer. You can knock yourself with it, burn it & drink it up, sleep with it everynight, read it 24/7, and you'll just get concussed/infected/terribly bored.
But faith can heal; faith in the right thing that is.
The Bible says that "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God." - because God keeps his word. So I guess yeah, indirectly, this book can cure cancer.
Originally posted by thirtyquid:There have been many, even in Singapore! Last year there was this massive healing rally at SIS, and what happened was that people were healed after praying. But before some were allowed to testify, they were asked to go back to the doctors to verify if the illnesses had really gone.
Actually, you can also say they heal themselves. It's all in your mind.
Our mind is pretty strong, like we can condition ourselves to endure more than we physically can simply by telling ourselves we can do so.
It's like faith, if you kept telling yourself God loves you etc you made yourself mentally prepared for almost anything coming your way. Like you got struck by a disease but if you kept yourself from resigning to fate, you will live longer than others who had resigned to fate. You might think it's God healing but I believe our mind is more complex than what we currently know.
Originally posted by thirtyquid:To get healing there is no checklist, you can't say "oh they christian they never get well haha God is fake" because there is a combination of factors. Non-believers get healed and don't get healed; Believers also get hailed and also don't get healed. It's circumstantial. I know this sounds like a cop-out, but it really depends. Alot of the results are to do with faith - whether you believe in God's healing power or not. But sometimes people are skeptical and still get healed anyway, because God's gracious like that, or He is trying to convict you.
Of course believing in God doesnt give anyone definite healing or physical immunity, because we're only human. And being weak is only human. It's only that when I believe in God, I have the power to pray illnesses away through faith.
Sometimes illnesses can't go away merely through prayer though... it depends on the root. Like anger, for instance? If you have a heart disease that is because of hatred, it is likely you'll only be made well after you forgive.
Just an example. My brother had persistent viral warts on his toes that get growing back. But after he forgave someone he had a grudge against, they never came back. Seems coiincidental right, but it is scientifically proven alot of ailments arise from stress/anger/hatred etc. It's not only airy-fairy faith.
Supposedly god hates everyone from other religions, according to the OT. Can't see how this would change, unlikely that any deity causes healing. Healings by placebo are by definition more probable than miracles, unless the placebo can be throughly disproved, such "miracles" really cannot be taken as fact
Originally posted by thirtyquid:There have been many, even in Singapore! Last year there was this massive healing rally at SIS, and what happened was that people were healed after praying. But before some were allowed to testify, they were asked to go back to the doctors to verify if the illnesses had really gone.
How come they never go hospital where there are those terminally ill patients? Heal them lah.
Originally posted by likeyou:
How come they never go hospital where there are those terminally ill patients? Heal them lah.
Can pray for healing. The final decision is still up to God if he wants to heal, whether if it is his will to heal the person.
Originally posted by Fantagf:
Can pray for healing. The final decision is still up to God if he wants to heal, whether if it is his will to heal the person.
Rubbish lah. Where got such thing one.
If got, all doctors and GP can resign and be a taxi drivers liao.
Originally posted by likeyou:
Rubbish lah. Where got such thing one.If got, all doctors and GP can resign and be a taxi drivers liao.
Hello, it is true some people are healed by God but God does not heal everyone.
I was pissed off by a christian who condemn me for falling sick often and that I should not go see doctor because to her Jesus is the doctor. She said I should go to Jesus and ask Jesus to cure me instead. I disagree with her. Told her if that is the case the world does not need doctors, doctors' rice bowls will be broken liao.
Stupid christian talked without brain.
Originally posted by dadeadman1337:Supposedly god hates everyone from other religions, according to the OT. Can't see how this would change, unlikely that any deity causes healing. Healings by placebo are by definition more probable than miracles, unless the placebo can be throughly disproved, such "miracles" really cannot be taken as fact
A placebo effect? These patients who believed in miraculous healings are not given powdered tablets coated with sugar. They gave up on medicine when it did not work and turned to faith for help.
Are you not aware of scientific research on faith and healing?
Originally posted by googoomuck:A placebo effect? These patients who believed in miraculous healings are not given powdered tablets coated with sugar. They gave up on medicine when it did not work and turned to faith for help.
Are you not aware of scientific research on faith and healing?
It seems that you lack the basic understanding of the placebo effect, read it up.
Originally posted by dadeadman1337:It seems that you lack the basic understanding of the placebo effect, read it up.
Don't you know about the scientific studies of faith and healing?
To eliminate the placebo effect, the patients were not told of the experiment.
If healing by faith is because of the placebo effect, then there's even more practical reason for doctors to embrace faith healing even if they don't believe - especially for very serious and terminal illnesses - where medical science have exhausted all its means and failed to cure.
Healing by faith is part of good patient management when medical science is hopeless.
Originally posted by googoomuck:Don't you know about the scientific studies of faith and healing?
To eliminate the placebo effect, the patients were not told of the experiment.
If healing by faith is because of the placebo effect, then there's even more practical reason for doctors to embrace faith healing even if they don't believe - especially for very serious and terminal illnesses - where medical science have exhausted all its means and failed to cure.
Healing by faith is part of good patient management when medical science is hopeless.
Scientific studies of faith and healing have throughly debunked it, it is strange that you bring it up. In April 2006 there was an experiment conducted on patients, some prayed over, some not. Some knew they were prayed over and some didn't.
http://www.dimaggio.org/Eye-Openers/prayer_does_not_work.htm
Of course the results the experiment threw up were immediately dismissed by the religious, but it refutes your argument about such "scientific" studies
Originally posted by dadeadman1337:Scientific studies of faith and healing have throughly debunked it, it is strange that you bring it up. In April 2006 there was an experiment conducted on patients, some prayed over, some not. Some knew they were prayed over and some didn't.
http://www.dimaggio.org/Eye-Openers/prayer_does_not_work.htm
Of course the results the experiment threw up were immediately dismissed by the religious, but it refutes your argument about such "scientific" studies
.....and yet you acknowledged that healing by faith is a placebo effect.
This particular experiment failed because the patients knew about it.
Originally posted by googoomuck:.....and yet you acknowledged that healing by faith is a placebo effect.
This particular experiment failed because the patients knew about it.
It could very well be, but as for your previous statement, are you going to take back your earlier claim about "scientific study"?
Originally posted by dadeadman1337:It could very well be, but as for your previous statement, are you going to take back your earlier claim about "scientific study"?
With just one scientific study that shows promise in faith healing( done in 1988), it's enough for the researchers on both camps, as well as those who believe in prayer, to carry on with the studies right up to this day.
A few articles that debunk faith healing are not going to change many minds either.
The claim is still valid. Healing by faith still helps when medical science fails.
Originally posted by googoomuck:With just one scientific study that shows promise in faith healing( done in 1988), it's enough for the researchers on both camps, as well as those who believe in prayer, to carry on with the studies right up to this day.
A few articles that debunk faith healing are not going to change many minds either.
The claim is still valid. Healing by faith still helps when medical science fails.
Which scientific study is this? It is not the 1988 study that makes the researcher interested, but because it remains true that many actually hold what I might deem a false belief in the supernatural. An article may not change many minds, but neither do articles like football ones in the papers do anything other than inform. The effect of the article does not contribute to its believability. As for your assertion, what significant proof is there for the validity of the claim? Medical science does not fail, but reaches the limit that is set by our level of knowledge. When Europe was suffering from the black death, did healing by faith play a part? Medical science also was said to have "failed" then, causing the absurd claims of religious trying to advocate a cure. Fools whipped themselves bloody, bled themselves dry etc. Only in the 1930s did sulfonamide drugs become effective treatments.
Originally posted by dadeadman1337:hich scientific study is this? It is not the 1988 study that makes the researcher interested, but because it remains true that many actually hold what I might deem a false belief in the supernatural. An article may not change many minds, but neither do articles like football ones in the papers do anything other than inform. The effect of the article does not contribute to its believability. As for your assertion, what significant proof is there for the validity of the claim? Medical science does not fail, but reaches the limit that is set by our level of knowledge. When Europe was suffering from the black death, did healing by faith play a part? Medical science also was said to have "failed" then, causing the absurd claims of religious trying to advocate a cure. Fools whipped themselves bloody, bled themselves dry etc. Only in the 1930s did sulfonamide drugs become effective treatments.
Let's not go too far into the medieval times.
If you can find an article that debunk faith healing - there are quite many - you can find at least one that support faith healing.
That was the one conducted by cardiologist Randolph Byrd, M.D., 1988. It was published in the medical journal.
In 1999, another study conducted by William S. Harris of St. Luke's Hospital also showed positive effects.
In both studies, the patients were not told about it in order to eliminate the placebo effect. It involved two-pronged attack - prayers and medication.
Medical science has not reach the pinnacle yet. In some cases, medical science has nothing to offer.
Originally posted by Fantagf:Hello, it is true some people are healed by God but God does not heal everyone.
I was pissed off by a christian who condemn me for falling sick often and that I should not go see doctor because to her Jesus is the doctor. She said I should go to Jesus and ask Jesus to cure me instead. I disagree with her. Told her if that is the case the world does not need doctors, doctors' rice bowls will be broken liao.
Stupid christian talked without brain.
Agreed.
If Jesus can heal, then doctors eat air liao.
Originally posted by googoomuck:Let's not go too far into the medieval times.
If you can find an article that debunk faith healing - there are quite many - you can find at least one that support faith healing.
That was the one conducted by cardiologist Randolph Byrd, M.D., 1988. It was published in the medical journal.
In 1999, another study conducted by William S. Harris of St. Luke's Hospital also showed positive effects.
In both studies, the patients were not told about it in order to eliminate the placebo effect. It involved two-pronged attack - prayers and medication.
Medical science has not reach the pinnacle yet. In some cases, medical science has nothing to offer.
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However one must accept the truth that the probability that one might go to a priest than a doctor when sick is highly unlikely. Else we wouldn't need hospitals in africa, but churches
Originally posted by dadeadman1337:However one must accept the truth that the probability that one might go to a priest than a doctor when sick is highly unlikely. Else we wouldn't need hospitals in africa, but churches
It should not be a choice of either church or hospital but a group effort of both.
God can be so real because i believe him..
while god can be so unreal because i will never believe him...i vote for the second choice
1. I'm a free-thinker...god can be real or fake
2. god miracles can be explain in so many ways. But there no solid proof to show these miracles are by god. (trust me..i know many miracles perform by other religion or individual...)
3. There so many proof on how god is unreal and those who claim god is real use book as their back-up which is very..^^
4. Even if god is real, there no way he can show me he real because of the restrictions and rules...i know "cant take away our free will"
5. So even if miracles appear...the first thing come to mind is YEAH I AM SO LUCKY..
6. And only true faith toward god can go heaven and for that..i can never do it EVEN if god appear before me..because i will see him as alien with power we never understand..(if u go back to 1900s and can cure cancer..they will see u as god)
7. lastly, god can be real and fake...but i will never believe him as REAL OR FAKE...
Hey, I ever saw doumentary show about china healers...they really heal a patient in a very remote village where access to city is almost immposible.
if faith healing really works, why do priests and popes die ? Tis is supposed to be miracles for the faithful right ?
Originally posted by reservistsianz:if faith healing really works, why do priests and popes die ? Tis is supposed to be miracles for the faithful right ?
Especially surprising since the last "vicar of christ" died sickly.