Christians need not be stupid
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Originally posted by An Eternal Now:
Religion also deals with experience, for example what the Buddha taught are not theories but his own experience and further more he taught How anyone can come to his own conclusion by experience. Most often the case however, an originally great contemplative tradition over times becomes corrupted by people and politics into dogmas and blind following.
The Buddha clearly explained how he does not teach based on theories and beliefs:
The Perfect One is free from any theory, for the Perfect One has understood what the body is, and how it arises, and passes away. He has understood what feeling is, and how it arises, and passes away. He has understood what perception is, and how it arises, and passes away. He has understood what the mental formations are, and how they arise, and pass away. He has understood what consciousness is, and how it arises, and passes away.
Therefore, I say, the Perfect One has won complete deliverance through the extinction, fading away, disappearance, rejection, and getting rid of all opinions and conjectures, of all inclination to the vainglory of I and mine.
- Majjhima Nikaya, 72Also, even HH the Dalai Lama himself has said “If science proves some belief of Buddhism wrong, then Buddhism will have to change.
I do agree with your statement:
All you can say is: "My experience with god is this and that..." and never "God is this and God is that".
hehehe haven't talked to you for a long time. I generally have quite good feelings towards Buddhist PHILOSOPHY. It is the Buddhist beliefs that I find rather hard to stomach.
For me it is, "If you cannot prove it, then forget it. Conjecture and speculations will not do."
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Originally posted by Dawnfirstlight:
Agree with you partially but not totally. Some of the things said in the scriptures are scientifically proven and some are yet to be proven. Just 3 examples below :
1) Buddha once held up a cup of water and remarked that there were 84,000 (a number to denote "many" or "countless") beings in it. No one understand what He meant. Today, we use a microscope and see that He referred to invisible microorganisms.
2) Buddha described worlds beyond ours in the vastness of outer space and other dimensions which are inhabited by many other intelligent sentiment life forms, many of which are unlike ours. Aliens existence are yet to be proven.
3) Buddhism believes in indestructibility or preservation of energy. This is in line with the law of conservation of energy, which states that energy can neither be created nor destroyed but can only be transformed from one form to another. The teaching of rebirth, is an example of transfer of imperishable Mind or mental energy from one body into another. It is yet to be proven but some scientists are looking into this issue.
1) If Buddha said 84,000 but we know it is in the millions. Furthermore, it is conjecture on people's part that he meant germs and other microbes. This kind of stuff, conjecture like that, is not acceptable. It is open to interpretation. You cannot afford to be vague like that. You have to be precise.
2) Again, you have no basis to say that he meant alien life forms like evolved life on earth. he could very well be describing "gods" and "demons". At best it is conjecture on people's part what he meant. Again not acceptable.
3)The cutting edge theoretical physics now considers, with mathematical proofs, calculations and observations that the total amount of energy (the sum of the positive energy and the negative energy) in the universe is zero. That is to say, energy appears from nothingness.
Since energy and therefore mass can appear from nothing, it is possible that this universe is not the only one. The conditions of this universe, however supports life as we know it, on earth.
Cutting edge theoretical physics show that there is no need for Gods, Buddhas or the super-natural forces to explain the existence of the universe.
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I must add of course that the cutting edge theoretical physics I mentioned is not yet conclusive and universally accepted. It is so new.
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To those that claim you need religion to answer certain types of question with regards to life and the meaning of life.
Rubbish
Psychologists and psychiatrists can help people with mental issues.
There are many atheists that are moralists, you do not need religion to be moral.
Philosophy tries to answer questions science leave out and the answers are based on logic and not, unlike religion, on beliefs.
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Originally posted by BadzMaro:
Not all are like that, u are being a fool to judge all the same way. And obviously too naive to be understanding and turn them away in a graceful manner. And not coming in here and bitch and moan , harping on one christian as a whole.
the person stalked me the moment i came out of school and called me every weekend. i even talked to him a few mins instead of slamming the phone down.
many christians talk all the same way with the god bless you, god bless bless bless bless. many church house-visits and stalk you. books of christianity show people "faking" they are possesed by stabbing themselves and taking a picture. and calling it instigma or something??
you notice in 2012, theres a part where christians pray so hard,thinking jesus will come out and like save them and yet the building still falls on them. haha!
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Originally posted by BadzMaro:
Not all are like that, u are being a fool to judge all the same way. And obviously too naive to be understanding and turn them away in a graceful manner. And not coming in here and bitch and moan , harping on one christian as a whole.
the person stalked me the moment i came out of school and called me every weekend. i even talked to him a few mins instead of slamming the phone down.
many christians talk all the same way with the god bless you, god bless bless bless bless. many church house-visits and stalk you. books of christianity show people "faking" they are possesed by stabbing themselves and taking a picture. and calling it instigma or something??
you notice in 2012, theres a part where christians pray so hard,thinking jesus will come out and like save them and yet the building still falls on them. haha!
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Originally posted by parn:
Religion is very similar to Love, as they both requires Strong Faith in order to exist.
Whoever tries to relate Religion to Science are just born retarded ...
that means if the teachings and preachings sucks or lack coherence, but needed faith will suffice. no wonder religion are like that, using faith blindly, no need brains, I see.
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Originally posted by Rooney9:
that means if the teachings and preachings sucks or lack coherence, but needed faith will suffice. no wonder religion are like that, using faith blindly, no need brains, I see.
You hit it right on the nail. Do people need faith to believe in gravity? You can prove gravity for yourself. Those that do not believe in gravity should just go up ten floors and jump down. They do that, they don't need any proof anymore.
You only need faith in things that are unbelievable and does not come with proofs and evidences. Only stupid people will willingly buy the rubbish. They make ridiculous claims and do not to show proof and evidence and instead put the blame on others for not having faith. Unbelievable how stupid people can be to fall for this kind of tricks.
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Originally posted by An Eternal Now:
Don't ask me. I never claim to experience god, I'm a Buddhist.
Ask AndrewPKYap
http://www.helium.com/users/34325
"My best moment ...
When God spoke to me
My inspiration ...
God"
Hi, next time when you see this guy's posting, just treat it as invisible. Need not bother or reply, just wasting your time. He just condemned everything under the sun.
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Originally posted by AndrewPKYap:
1) If Buddha said 84,000 but we know it is in the millions. Furthermore, it is conjecture on people's part that he meant germs and other microbes. This kind of stuff, conjecture like that, is not acceptable. It is open to interpretation. You cannot afford to be vague like that. You have to be precise.
2) Again, you have no basis to say that he meant alien life forms like evolved life on earth. he could very well be describing "gods" and "demons". At best it is conjecture on people's part what he meant. Again not acceptable.
3)The cutting edge theoretical physics now considers, with mathematical proofs, calculations and observations that the total amount of energy (the sum of the positive energy and the negative energy) in the universe is zero. That is to say, energy appears from nothingness.
Since energy and therefore mass can appear from nothing, it is possible that this universe is not the only one. The conditions of this universe, however supports life as we know it, on earth.
Cutting edge theoretical physics show that there is no need for Gods, Buddhas or the super-natural forces to explain the existence of the universe.
Point 1) Well, it is up to individual to think what he meant. To most people, he is referring to microorganisms. What other living things are in there besides that?
Point 2) If he referred to demons and gods, he would have spelt out clearly because he spelt out clearly demons and gods in all the scriptures.
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I am not trying to be funny but trying to relate human beings to science.
Question : If God created Adam and Eve, human beings were multiplied from there, does it mean Adam's and Eve's children had relationship and reproduced ? Or else how human beings multiply with just Adam and Eve.
Answer from my relative who is a christian : Yes, but God forbids somewhere along the line because He found that it was not right.
My question : No matter when He forbids, He could not change the fact that we are the decendants of incest. If we are from the same ancestors, how come today there are so many races. After more than 2000 years, we chinese still look very chinese in appearance (disregard the inter-marriage).Scientifically, children from parents who have close genes are mainly abnormal but majority of us are normal.
Does any christian friend who have a different saying from my relative?
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Seem like certain pple has been brainwashed until they cannot think for themselves. I am not refering to any forumers here.
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Originally posted by Dawnfirstlight:
Point 1) Well, it is up to individual to think what he meant. To most people, he is referring to microorganisms. What other living things are in there besides that?
Point 2) If he referred to demons and gods, he would have spelt out clearly because he spelt out clearly demons and gods in all the scriptures.
Up to the individual? Crap!!! Next you will tell me you need faith "to think what he meant".
If he can spell out clearly "because he spelt out clearly demons and gods" why can't he spell out clearly if he meant other humans and in which galaxy?
You are just delusional if you believe your guesses what Buddha meant (they are just guesses). BTW Buddha is trying to teach people not to be delusional. You have a delusion when you believe "guesses" as truth. In order that you do not have delusions in your head, what you believe must come with proofs and evidences.
Funny isn't it; people calling themselves Buddhist being delusional about Buddhist scriptures?
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Originally posted by likeyou:
Seem like certain pple has been brainwashed until they cannot think for themselves. I am not refering to any forumers here.
Either that or they are too lazy or stupid to think for themselves.
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Originally posted by AndrewPKYap:
Up to the individual? Crap!!! Next you will tell me you need faith "to think what he meant".
If he can spell out clearly "because he spelt out clearly demons and gods" why can't he spell out clearly if he meant other humans and in which galaxy?
You are just delusional if you believe your guesses what Buddha meant (they are just guesses). BTW Buddha is trying to teach people not to be delusional. You have a delusion when you believe "guesses" as truth. In order that you do not have delusions in your head, what you believe must come with proofs and evidences.
Funny isn't it; people calling themselves Buddhist being delusional about Buddhist scriptures?
So, can you tell me what other living things are in there if he was not referring to microorganism ? Please enlighten me? He had already mentioned other intelligent beings. Do you expect him to say Aliens ? I wonder there were such words called Aliens and microorganism 2500 years ago. If he mentioned Aliens and microorganisms 2500 years ago, today we may use different words for Aliens and microorganism, so you will say he was not referring to the same thing. Well, this is a free world, you have every right to disagree. I rest my case here.
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Originally posted by AndrewPKYap:
Up to the individual? Crap!!! Next you will tell me you need faith "to think what he meant".
If he can spell out clearly "because he spelt out clearly demons and gods" why can't he spell out clearly if he meant other humans and in which galaxy?
You are just delusional if you believe your guesses what Buddha meant (they are just guesses). BTW Buddha is trying to teach people not to be delusional. You have a delusion when you believe "guesses" as truth. In order that you do not have delusions in your head, what you believe must come with proofs and evidences.
Funny isn't it; people calling themselves Buddhist being delusional about Buddhist scriptures?
Just one example of what was used in the scriptures.
Earth was not called earth 2500 years ago but 娑婆世界. But every buddhists know that he was referring to earth. There are many others.
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I feel sad when people keep quoting supernatural stuffu to mean empirical matter, despite myself often use "GOD THROWING APPLE DOWN ON NEWTON'S HEAD" as a thinking statement for the confused students.
People need to stop relying on single teachers, we need to strive to be capable persons, searching for individual values in different teachings be it christianity, buddhism or even science. By taking analogical information 'wholesale' you risk taking irrelevant values that may not help you in this day and age.
I have met faithful people religious people who knows that not of what they learn are true, especially when they understand that such teachings (i.e. Bible) are written by a group of real people, and they know there may be different interpretations of each.
It is just perpectivism, my principle is that everything (anything I've understood) is valid, until proven wrong. Iterative cycles of mental evaluation of reality also help me to define what is (my) reality, what is literature, and what is fiction.
PEOPLE, PLEASE WAKE UP. Do your own research into your own religion and stop relying on what religion tells you. If you want to look capable to your peers, you must UNDERSTAND what god tries to teach you, not merely DESCRIBING what you have been innoculated.
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Originally posted by Dawnfirstlight:
So, can you tell me what other living things are in there if he was not referring to microorganism ? Please enlighten me? He had already mentioned other intelligent beings. Do you expect him to say Aliens ? I wonder there were such words called Aliens and microorganism 2500 years ago. If he mentioned Aliens and microorganisms 2500 years ago, today we may use different words for Aliens and microorganism, so you will say he was not referring to the same thing. Well, this is a free world, you have every right to disagree. I rest my case here.
You are guessing again. Delusions. Show me some proof, some evidence. Stop coming to me with your guesses. Stop asking me to come up with proofs to defend you. You make the claims, you come up with the evidence. This is exactly the same as christians asking people to prove that god does not exist.
Guesses are natural but for you to believe your guesses you have become delusional.
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Originally posted by Dawnfirstlight:
Just one example of what was used in the scriptures.
Earth was not called earth 2500 years ago but 娑婆世界. But every buddhists know that he was referring to earth. There are many others.
This is what people call, a non-sequitur. Just because "娑婆世界" means earth then, it proves your other assumptions? What kind of stupid logic is that?
You have to prove your claims. You cannot tell me something else (a non-sequitur) and then expect people to accept your delusions as truth. You want people to accept what you say is true, give us your proofs and evidences.
Give up your delusions and liberate your mind.
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Originally posted by HeartHunter:
I feel sad when people keep quoting supernatural stuffu to mean empirical matter, despite myself often use "GOD THROWING APPLE DOWN ON NEWTON'S HEAD" as a thinking statement for the confused students.
People need to stop relying on single teachers, we need to strive to be capable persons, searching for individual values in different teachings be it christianity, buddhism or even science. By taking analogical information 'wholesale' you risk taking irrelevant values that may not help you in this day and age.
I have met faithful people religious people who knows that not of what they learn are true, especially when they understand that such teachings (i.e. Bible) are written by a group of real people, and they know there may be different interpretations of each.
It is just perpectivism, my principle is that everything (anything I've understood) is valid, until proven wrong. Iterative cycles of mental evaluation of reality also help me to define what is (my) reality, what is literature, and what is fiction.
PEOPLE, PLEASE WAKE UP. Do your own research into your own religion and stop relying on what religion tells you. If you want to look capable to your peers, you must UNDERSTAND what god tries to teach you, not merely DESCRIBING what you have been innoculated.
You are so pitiful. You seem to be a Buddhist but you fail to learn the key component of Buddhist teaching which is to see through the delusions and illusions of this world.
Not only are you not liberated, you actually have delusions about Buddhist scriptures!!!
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-goes for laugh, your comment is evident.
And I'm not a buddhist. Please do not pity me.
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Originally posted by HeartHunter:
-goes for laugh, your comment is evident.
And I'm not a buddhist. Please do not pity me.
hahaha so sorry I thought that post was from "Dawnfirstlight" continuing his rubbish. My bad, I should have carefully read what you wrote in that post... hahaha
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Originally posted by HeartHunter:
I feel sad when people keep quoting supernatural stuffu to mean empirical matter, despite myself often use "GOD THROWING APPLE DOWN ON NEWTON'S HEAD" as a thinking statement for the confused students.
People need to stop relying on single teachers, we need to strive to be capable persons, searching for individual values in different teachings be it christianity, buddhism or even science. By taking analogical information 'wholesale' you risk taking irrelevant values that may not help you in this day and age.
I have met faithful people religious people who knows that not of what they learn are true, especially when they understand that such teachings (i.e. Bible) are written by a group of real people, and they know there may be different interpretations of each.
It is just perpectivism, my principle is that everything (anything I've understood) is valid, until proven wrong. Iterative cycles of mental evaluation of reality also help me to define what is (my) reality, what is literature, and what is fiction.
PEOPLE, PLEASE WAKE UP. Do your own research into your own religion and stop relying on what religion tells you. If you want to look capable to your peers, you must UNDERSTAND what god tries to teach you, not merely DESCRIBING what you have been innoculated.
I don't agree with this: "my principle is that everything (anything I've understood) is valid, until proven wrong."
Your principle might be that, but mine is "anything I know and have understood is epistemically wrong and invalid" but for practical purposes, I hold on to them and uses them.
I am therefore, always seeking proof and evidence (and expect valid proofs and evidence from others) to justify my positions (and for them to justify their positions).
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Originally posted by Rooney9:
well its not surprising to tar all with the same brush, just look at the way you reply to him. I rest my case. besides, the concept of the divine is already a flawed concept, full of inconsistencies and paradoxes if you bother to read the comments posted earlier in this very thread.
The way i reply is consistent with any reply to those that doesnt think deep enough but only touches on the mere surfaces of the issue. They way he sumarises everything as a whole. And educated learned person will know u dont put all the eggs in the same basket. Unless you are one of those too.
The concept of divinity is flawed because you are using something u think u know to explain something u dont know. Even if it is flawed , the proven is not fully proven. Even it, has inconsistencies and paradoxes. So what are you on about ? We not even stopped at our discovery. The whole idea of science, is to find explainations. And the explainations we recieve just begs MORE questions. Dont u see that it will all come back to the same question.. How Did It Happen?
U may not believe,because u chose never to beieve, even with the gift to decide for yourself, you let others decide for u, but at least, even with my faith, i still keep an open mind.
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Originally posted by BadzMaro:
The way i reply is consistent with any reply to those that doesnt think deep enough but only touches on the mere surfaces of the issue. They way he sumarises everything as a whole. And educated learned person will know u dont put all the eggs in the same basket. Unless you are one of those too.
The concept of divinity is flawed because you are using something u think u know to explain something u dont know. Even if it is flawed , the proven is not fully proven. Even it, has inconsistencies and paradoxes. So what are you on about ? We not even stopped at our discovery. The whole idea of science, is to find explainations. And the explainations we recieve just begs MORE questions. Dont u see that it will all come back to the same question.. How Did It Happen?
U may not believe,because u chose never to beieve, even with the gift to decide for yourself, you let others decide for u, but at least, even with my faith, i still keep an open mind.
You said:
"The whole idea of science, is to find explainations. And the explainations we recieve just begs MORE questions. Dont u see that it will all come back to the same question.. How Did It Happen?"
...and so you think it wise to just ignore the evidence and "have faith". You don't see how delusional that is, to believe in things unproven?
That part of your post: "How Did It Happen?"
Maybe you missed this at the posts on top of this page:
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3)The cutting edge theoretical physics now considers, with mathematical proofs, calculations and observations that the total amount of energy (the sum of the positive energy and the negative energy) in the universe is zero. That is to say, energy appears from nothingness.
Since energy and therefore mass can appear from nothing, it is possible that this universe is not the only one. The conditions of this universe, however supports life as we know it, on earth.
Cutting edge theoretical physics show that there is no need for Gods, Buddhas or the super-natural forces to explain the existence of the universe.
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I must add of course that the cutting edge theoretical physics I mentioned is not yet conclusive and universally accepted. It is so new.
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