Christians need not be stupid
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Originally posted by Dawnfirstlight:
Agree with you partially but not totally. Some of the things said in the scriptures are scientifically proven and some are yet to be proven. Just 3 examples below :
1) Buddha once held up a cup of water and remarked that there were 84,000 (a number to denote "many" or "countless") beings in it. No one understand what He meant. Today, we use a microscope and see that He referred to invisible microorganisms.
2) Buddha described worlds beyond ours in the vastness of outer space and other dimensions which are inhabited by many other intelligent sentiment life forms, many of which are unlike ours. Aliens existence are yet to be proven.
3) Buddhism believes in indestructibility or preservation of energy. This is in line with the law of conservation of energy, which states that energy can neither be created nor destroyed but can only be transformed from one form to another. The teaching of rebirth, is an example of transfer of imperishable Mind or mental energy from one body into another. It is yet to be proven but some scientists are looking into this issue.
Yeah, if it's a cup of boiled water, then there is no living creatures in it.
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Originally posted by HeartHunter:
Rooney9's last post just underlined typical sg attitudes cultivated from our educational system.
i think this statement is uncalled for
i come from ACJC, where a significant number of people are god believing, and to some sense extreme
i know the same for other missionary schools
so what is a typical sg attittude cultivated from educational system?
god believing or not?
i think if you dont like his post, take it up with him, not simply place blame on sch system or his personal attitude
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Then again science has discovered that some organisms live past boiling point temperature... Science is not definate, it has never been.
Religion and science to me is merely business, the value is that whether you can understand and perhaps exploit it, if one use it to define reality I'm sad to say that your cognitive abilities are limited to ideas from other people, be it preachers or scientists.
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for me is, science allows itself to be corrected and does not stick to religious dogma, which can be rather stifling to progress
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It is a good thing that christians are stupid isn't it.
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Originally posted by laurence82:
i think this statement is uncalled for
i come from ACJC, where a significant number of people are god believing, and to some sense extreme
i know the same for other missionary schools
so what is a typical sg attittude cultivated from educational system?
god believing or not?
i think if you dont like his post, take it up with him, not simply place blame on sch system or his personal attitude
I dun even bother replying cos its worse than stupid. but then there are no such things as stupid, only stupid people. but then anyone can come out or say with anything they like.
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In response to laurence82, I have nothing regarding missionary schools, I believe this happens in all schools (I used the word: I believe. you may not believe me).
I'm saying in general there's a sg perception that the world must be ruled by BLACK and WHITE, this is my observation.
And I apologise for generalising Rooney9's response, he may not be representative, and he is entitled to his opinions.
But I need to make people aware that people have different experiences in life, it is easy to generalise the population and this must be taken in account.
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in the past, people usually the believers believed that drinking holy water can cure all ills and sicknesses. what you need to do is to believe in it and god will do the rest. to me its the same as the chinese amulets. whenever you have tummyache, just drink it and you will no longer have tummyache.
so are these people methods proven right in this day and age? if thats the case, there is no need to see doctors and no need to continue to experiement with medicine and science isnt it, cos holy water and amulets cured all sicknesses and diseases.
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But when you lost your iron ricebowl and your family left you, what are you left with?
There are many routes to take, some may actually grow desperate and carve out a living by themselves, others require help (i.e. though groups and institutions)...
If I take a real world example of my uncle, whom I thought lost some of his sanity in the past cos he always say the world is unfair this and such..., further interactions tells me that his experiences in life wasn't smooth, he needed an outlet for frustration but wasn't provided (lost his love, lost his job, most crap thing you can ever envisioned).. ended up like a 'living zombie', but when he joined a semi-religious organization (mind you this one is kinda 'progressive' :P if we compared against dogmatic ones) he received more social support than he expected... eventually pulled himself up together.
And to this day he still tells me, "God provided the strength for me to face the world again."
You may use science to prove this and that, but its only "PROVING", science naturally has the empirical advantage, but science do not attempt explain or analyse what is life 'really all about'.
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science is not the be all and end all and does not pretend to explain everything. what it does is to observe, collect and study data, do experiment to prove the hypothesis countless times.
what has bible or god does? use god to explain everything, I think is too a simpleton explanations. I would say, its as good as having no explanations at all. besides using god to explain everything is getting a tad stale and boring. Q: why are people dying of tsunamis? A: cos its god will. zzzzzzzzzzz
if you believe in god inspite of the inconsistencies and paradoxes with the concept, fine with me. its your life not mine.
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Not all christians reached the epitome of the understanding of the bible and its interpretations relating to the current logical possible scientific explainations. You dont see them discussing because they know, those that dont believe will never believe, even when it is right in their face. And not all christians are stupid.
Arrogance ? Believers and non-believers alike, their arrogance can be clearly seen in recent threads in Eternal Hope. Science and technology will continue to discover, continue to be debunked and keep moving forward to rediscover just to look back again to TRY to explain and there will always be that X-factor. Like the mapping of the genome of 99.99%, Its either unexplainable and so mysterious, or technology has yet to have advanced to the stage to explain it. Its just like discovering small n smaller n smaller things.
Yes i agree that alot of things are proven , but nobody seems to ask why given the intelligence, technology and readily available materials at that time able to do the feats only now science using physics , science able to prove that... its actually how it is. Just like the concept of quantum mechanics and seismology, going back in time 1000BC , try explaining it to them. U dont.. u TELL them to do it. e.g Walls of Jericho, Red Sea.. etc u dont see them suddenly developing siege machines based on the new found intelligence and technology to create machines able to create seismic waves using the materials available at that time. No. Their mental capacity is not yet sophisticated and learned enough to grasp these concepts. The question then is, how did they know by just praying, being in solitude and quiet of the mind. Who told them? Did they become Einstein in just a day? If so.. why not use the new found intelligence to develop and create far more superior technology based on that knowledge. Fast forward now, that we have the intelligence to rely on science, like all things and the interpretations of the bible, the happenings are evolving, the bible has stopped just at the point where mankind has moved forward, miracles do no happen in such a large scale anymore. Miracles in a large scale has happened, and yet the people who witnessed it turned away. Its human nature. We forget. That is just a thought to ponder on.
We are all still at an infancy to the discovery of the secrets of life and the creation of all things on this planet and the universe. So, lets just let the scientists continue in their quest of discovery and if those that dont believe, dont believe, Those that do.. will rely on their faith to believe.
It is inevitable that our civilisation will end, knowing for certain with that dreaded feeling that it will eventually come. But at least, those that have the faith will have comfort to know that it is all God's plan and it is inevitable and we all will be judged in the final judgement. So we all live our lives accordingly , love compassion , repentence according to Jesus, Budhaa or whatever that is others of faith. The goodness of their teachings. Knowing that, we will be answerable to our sins, and that fear will make us all a better person living a more meaningful life. -
xtian like to spwell Buddha wrongly
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christians are the only religion that force/pulls outsider to their religion. theres a christian that keep on stalk me to go to church as valentines day is coming and JESUS CHRIST WANTS TO SHOW ME LOVE. o0o.
making jesus oh-so-holy with the oh-so-holy bible starting with " Dear father, i know you have suffered on the cross for me to clear my sins( you were not even born ) blah blah blah blah blah rubbish rubbish rubbish blah blah... in the holy name of jesus christ, please forgive me blah blah blah. o0o. amen! "
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Well, science never try to explain why your parents want to bear you despite of financial difficulties.
Well, science never try to tell you why you need to grow up to be a 'decent' adult.
Well, science never try to tell you this and such.
Religion provides alternative view to such questions. There are many religion around the world, and they attempt to explain phenomena in different ways. Think of them as different software packages catered for generic population.
To Rooney9,
There are many scientific theories in the world that can be easily proven and disprove, but they are still strong cos they have strong underlying assumption. Please do not forget that hypothesis comes from ideas which may not have scientific basis, and proven theories in the past can also be easily proven wrong. Scientific claims without constant prove/disprove is totally scam.
Religion can also be proven/disproved, its just a matter of perspectives. People generally shy away from christianity in the early days (during modernity) cos of the increased output from scientific knowledge. Think of science as a fashion, it has to keep up with times in order to stay relevant. Most religion I know of also try to keep up with times in order to stay relevant.
It can be through brainwashing, in another perspective I can say a science education system is also a brainwashing system, cos it made us (including me) to think that factual information can only come from progressive science.
Then again you might not understand what I'm getting at because we have different experiences, I do not know you personally or for long. Point is that we must be mindful of others, despite how radical they are, they have their own reason for doing so.
Socrates once question if our knowledge of our surroundings are actually sufficient, people do have different belief systems that allow them to function as social persons.
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Originally posted by Xedon:
christians are the only religion that force/pulls outsider to their religion. theres a christian that keep on stalk me to go to church as valentines day is coming and JESUS CHRIST WANTS TO SHOW ME LOVE. o0o.
making jesus oh-so-holy with the oh-so-holy bible starting with " Dear father, i know you have suffered on the cross for me to clear my sins( you were not even born ) blah blah blah blah blah rubbish rubbish rubbish blah blah... in the holy name of jesus christ, please forgive me blah blah blah. o0o. amen! "
Not all are like that, u are being a fool to judge all the same way. And obviously too naive to be understanding and turn them away in a graceful manner. And not coming in here and bitch and moan , harping on one christian as a whole.
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Originally posted by BadzMaro:
Not all are like that, u are being a fool to judge all the same way. And obviously too naive to be understanding and turn them away in a graceful manner. And not coming in here and bitch and moan , harping on one christian as a whole.
well its not surprising to tar all with the same brush, just look at the way you reply to him. I rest my case. besides, the concept of the divine is already a flawed concept, full of inconsistencies and paradoxes if you bother to read the comments posted earlier in this very thread.
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Originally posted by HeartHunter:
Well, science never try to explain why your parents want to bear you despite of financial difficulties.
Well, science never try to tell you why you need to grow up to be a 'decent' adult.
Well, science never try to tell you this and such.
Religion provides alternative view to such questions. There are many religion around the world, and they attempt to explain phenomena in different ways. Think of them as different software packages catered for generic population.
To Rooney9,
There are many scientific theories in the world that can be easily proven and disprove, but they are still strong cos they have strong underlying assumption. Please do not forget that hypothesis comes from ideas which may not have scientific basis, and proven theories in the past can also be easily proven wrong. Scientific claims without constant prove/disprove is totally scam.
Religion can also be proven/disproved, its just a matter of perspectives. People generally shy away from christianity in the early days (during modernity) cos of the increased output from scientific knowledge. Think of science as a fashion, it has to keep up with times in order to stay relevant. Most religion I know of also try to keep up with times in order to stay relevant.
It can be through brainwashing, in another perspective I can say a science education system is also a brainwashing system, cos it made us (including me) to think that factual information can only come from progressive science.
Then again you might not understand what I'm getting at because we have different experiences, I do not know you personally or for long. Point is that we must be mindful of others, despite how radical they are, they have their own reason for doing so.
Socrates once question if our knowledge of our surroundings are actually sufficient, people do have different belief systems that allow them to function as social persons.
what a load of hogwash this fellow can comment, really brilliant, trust him to come up with this type of counter argument. really rest my case here, there is no need for me to counter your replies. Do I need to say even more.
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Religion is very similar to Love, as they both requires Strong Faith in order to exist.
Whoever tries to relate Religion to Science are just born retarded ...
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Originally posted by parn:
Religion is very similar to Love, as they both requires Strong Faith in order to exist.
Whoever tries to relate Religion to Science are just born retarded ...
Vice versa for relating science to religion. -
Originally posted by AndrewPKYap:
"Science without Religion is crippled. (I am not too sure about this one)"
Science of course is simply a method to discover the secrets of the universe. It has worked very well as you know and experienced (when you type and submitted your post).
The computer is a product of Science.
When science "invented" the computer, no religion was involved. I seriously think the opposite is true. Religious beliefs cripples science. It puts limits on scientific discoveries when religious people come into power.
Like "President George W.Bush's limit on federal funding of embryonic stem cell research"
""Religion without Science is blind. ( I agree)."
Religion is thousand of years old, long before science. Blind or not, people simply carry on believing in the religious teachings. They did not need science then, they do not need science now.
They will tell you "I choose to be stupid, why do you care?" "I choose to believe, why do you care?" "I am stupid, I cannot work things out for myself and therefore I believe, why do you care?"
As long as they do not try to impose their beliefs on others, right, we won't care.
There is no need to mix science and religion. Religion deals with beliefs based on the imagination rather than tests, observations and proofs. Science deals with findings based on experiments, observations and proofs.
The two are so far apart, don't try to mix them.
Religion also deals with experience, for example what the Buddha taught are not theories but his own experience and further more he taught How anyone can come to his own conclusion by experience. Most often the case however, an originally great contemplative tradition over times becomes corrupted by people and politics into dogmas and blind following.
The Buddha clearly explained how he does not teach based on theories and beliefs:
The Perfect One is free from any theory, for the Perfect One has understood what the body is, and how it arises, and passes away. He has understood what feeling is, and how it arises, and passes away. He has understood what perception is, and how it arises, and passes away. He has understood what the mental formations are, and how they arise, and pass away. He has understood what consciousness is, and how it arises, and passes away.
Therefore, I say, the Perfect One has won complete deliverance through the extinction, fading away, disappearance, rejection, and getting rid of all opinions and conjectures, of all inclination to the vainglory of I and mine.
- Majjhima Nikaya, 72Also, even HH the Dalai Lama himself has said “If science proves some belief of Buddhism wrong, then Buddhism will have to change.
I do agree with your statement:
All you can say is: "My experience with god is this and that..." and never "God is this and God is that".
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Originally posted by An Eternal Now:
Religion also deals with experience, for example what the Buddha taught are not theories but his own experience and further more he taught How anyone can come to his own conclusion by experience. Most often the case however, an originally great contemplative tradition over times becomes corrupted by people and politics into dogmas and blind following.
The Buddha clearly explained how he does not teach based on theories and beliefs:
The Perfect One is free from any theory, for the Perfect One has understood what the body is, and how it arises, and passes away. He has understood what feeling is, and how it arises, and passes away. He has understood what perception is, and how it arises, and passes away. He has understood what the mental formations are, and how they arise, and pass away. He has understood what consciousness is, and how it arises, and passes away.
Therefore, I say, the Perfect One has won complete deliverance through the extinction, fading away, disappearance, rejection, and getting rid of all opinions and conjectures, of all inclination to the vainglory of I and mine.
- Majjhima Nikaya, 72I do agree with your statement:
All you can say is: "My experience with god is this and that..." and never "God is this and God is that".
You expreience a god darn one off flunk due to fate and you call that experience and yet it never works for others, so what the fark is that? -
Originally posted by Herzog_Zwei:
You expreience a god darn one off flunk due to fate and you call that experience and yet it never works for others, so what the fark is that?Don't ask me. I never claim to experience god, I'm a Buddhist.
Ask AndrewPKYap
http://www.helium.com/users/34325
"My best moment ...
When God spoke to me
My inspiration ...
God"
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Originally posted by parn:
Religion is very similar to Love, as they both requires Strong Faith in order to exist.
Whoever tries to relate Religion to Science are just born retarded ...
I wonder do you see doctor when you are sick or just depend on your prayers to cure you. If you see doctor when you are sick , meaning you need science to cure you or you would have just pray for recovery. God will only help you to recover when you take medicine. Get it?
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Dawnfirstlight quoted-
I wonder do you see doctor when you are sick or just depend on your prayers to cure you. If you see doctor when you are sick , meaning you need science to cure you or you would have just pray for recovery. God will only help you to recover when you take medicine. Get it?
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Ah... a person whom I can relate to... someone who are not victim of BLACK versus WHITE persecution... oops...
Hope we'd see more often online, great insight.