Reason/science vs Supernatural
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Originally posted by laffin123:
fortmax77,
I read your good fortune #1 - #7.
Looks like if you pray to your god, bad spell were turned into good endings. That's good for you.
May I know roughly what is your percentage of good endings over the total number of your praying/wishing ?
+ I understand it is hard to estimate, let's say it is about 1%, that's 1 hits over 100 praying. That's maybe low.
+ Or let's be optimistic, let's say 50%, that's 5 hits per 10 praying. This is too luckly, if you are in this category, I would like to be your best friend :)
+ Generally, I believe 10% is acceptable. 1 answered per 10 wishes. I am in this category and I don't need to thank any supernatural being. I thank my good fortune. I don't need to attribute my 9 other failures to any supernatural being.
What do you said when you have unanswered prayers ?
laffin
Hi laffin,
I do not know a percentage overall but so far I know its 100% whenever things get really out of hand and almost beyond I can bear.
No doubt, my prayers do not get answered all the time. Lottery for example
but not being a multi millionaire is not beyond what I can bear. God does and will test your patience but he will never ever test you beyond what you can take.And if prayers do not get answered. Keep praying. God will reward your perserverance.
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Originally posted by despondent:
atheists claim there is no proof for creation...actually wad they mean is there isnt GD ENUFF proof for creation cos creationists do have proof. its juz tat the atheists feel the proof not gd enuff...
the reverse is also true...atheists claim to have proof tat God dun exist...evolutionists try to produce evidence to prove evolution. however, the creationists feel tat the proof provided is NOT GD ENUFF... so i guess at the end of the day, the issue is not whether there is proof but rather whether there is GD ENUFF proof for the respective sides...it must be noted that juz as atheists can claim the evidence provided by creationists is flawed, creationists can also do likewise...so wads the conclusion? wads gd enuf evidence to one may not be gd enuff evidence to the other...like the saying: one man's meat is another man's poison...quoting wad miracles & prophecies have said b4...''theres private proof but public proof? no way...'' the same can be said abt atheism...
actually, it's just that both sides of the story do not have enough evidence to show that it is completely true, as more information and technology is still required.
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Originally posted by Fortmax777:
Hi laffin,
I do not know a percentage overall but so far I know its 100% whenever things get really out of hand and almost beyond I can bear.
No doubt, my prayers do not get answered all the time. Lottery for example
but not being a multi millionaire is not beyond what I can bear. God does and will test your patience but he will never ever test you beyond what you can take.And if prayers do not get answered. Keep praying. God will reward your perserverance.
What about those who pray for the survival of their dear ones. Losing their loved ones is beyond they can bear but prayers were not answered.
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Originally posted by Dawnfirstlight:
What about those who pray for the survival of their dear ones. Losing their loved ones is beyond they can bear but prayers were not answered.
But missionaries will say, God is just taking your loved ones away from pain and suffering to a better place, in heaven by his side! And we must believe in God so we can join our loved ones in heaven.
XP
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Originally posted by ThunderFbolt:
actually, it's just that both sides of the story do not have enough evidence to show that it is completely true, as more information and technology is still required.
Now you're are heading somewhere. Nobody knows enough to be an atheist.
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Originally posted by googoomuck:
......because he was a famous scientist. He said that it's very difficult to prove or disprove the idea of a creator of the universe. Was he wrong?
An atheist knows that there's no God but does he?
Yes, an atheist knows there is no god.
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ah...but the evidence tat atheists have to prove theres no God...is the evidence gd enuff in a universal sense? remember, the evidence is onli gd enuff for the atheists not the creationists and vice-versa...
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Originally posted by googoomuck:
Now you're are heading somewhere. Nobody knows enough to be an atheist.
Thanks for agreeing with me, seeing how I posted equal discussion for both views. I am glad you agree no one knows enough to have a belief in religion too.
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Originally posted by Fortmax777:
Hi laffin,
I do not know a percentage overall but so far I know its 100% whenever things get really out of hand and almost beyond I can bear.
No doubt, my prayers do not get answered all the time. Lottery for example
but not being a multi millionaire is not
beyond what I can bear. God does and will test your patience but he
will never ever test you beyond what you can take.And if prayers do not get answered. Keep praying. God will reward your perserverance.
100% ? but you said your prayers do not get answer ? incoherency ?
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Originally posted by despondent:
ah...but the evidence tat atheists have to prove theres no God...is the evidence gd enuff in a universal sense? remember, the evidence is onli gd enuff for the atheists not the creationists and vice-versa...
There is no god and the blame is not on me to prove it. (whoever created the idea, please prove it or remove it.)
My objectives
1) Remove religious indoctrination to children;
2) Use reasoning and cold hard facts in all your actions.
laffin
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Originally posted by laffin123:
100% ? but you said your prayers do not get answer ? incoherency ?
he said 100% when the going gets rough.
strange thing though, if the going gets rough and you survive, you credit it to a god. yet if you don't survive, you won't be around to give said god a 100% grade anyway.
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Originally posted by laffin123:
There is no god and the blame is not on me to prove it. (whoever created the idea, please prove it or remove it.)
My objectives
1) Remove religious indoctrination to children;
2) Use reasoning and cold hard facts in all your actions.
laffin
1) To this, I was born into a Christian family. I once asked my parents why they placed me into a Christian community and had me baptised at a very young age, which I felt is unfair as I do not get to choose my own beliefs. The answer I got is something I feel to be very good, as he said that at a young age, our parents choose the clothes we wear, the food we eat, the place we sleep, the schools we go to. To such a thing as important as where we go to after death and the unexplanable, should they not try to help us towards what they believe is right?
I am very sure that theists and nontheists alike will agree with me on this point. While it does feel like religious indoctrination, your parents are doing so out of love for you.
Having said this, I feel that Muslim families and communities are being very unfair towards their children, as they do not allow their children to make a religion change even after they have their own decision on the matter.
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Originally posted by ThunderFbolt:
1) To this, I was born into a Christian family. I once asked my parents why they placed me into a Christian community and had me baptised at a very young age, which I felt is unfair as I do not get to choose my own beliefs. The answer I got is something I feel to be very good, as he said that at a young age, our parents choose the clothes we wear, the food we eat, the place we sleep, the schools we go to. To such a thing as important as where we go to after death and the unexplanable, should they not try to help us towards what they believe is right?
I am very sure that theists and nontheists alike will agree with me on this point. While it does feel like religious indoctrination, your parents are doing so out of love for you.
Having said this, I feel that Muslim families and communities are being very unfair towards their children, as they do not allow their children to make a religion change even after they have their own decision on the matter.
I can understand your parents teaching all stuff on your growing years. I cannot fault your parents introducing your religion. I hope they also taught you why there are people who do not believe in religion and also raised the incoherency in religious teachings. This should be the complete education (plus academic) of a child's growing years. The child should be free to choose his/her path when they grow up.
laffin
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Originally posted by laffin123:
I can understand your parents teaching all stuff on your growing years. I cannot fault your parents introducing your religion. I hope they also taught you why there are people who do not believe in religion and also raised the incoherency in religious teachings. This should be the complete education (plus academic) of a child's growing years. The child should be free to choose his/her path when they grow up.
laffin
They did, and I am grateful for that. And they were also supportive, while a bit disappointed, when I decided on a belief (of disbelief) which was different from their choice. This should be the choice that everyone is offered today.
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Originally posted by ThunderFbolt:
They did, and I am grateful for that. And they were also supportive, while a bit disappointed, when I decided on a belief (of disbelief) which was different from their choice. This should be the choice that everyone is offered today.
Good for you. Free choice is the best (when, no doubt, religion will carry on as long as people live in this planet).
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Originally posted by ThunderFbolt:
Thanks for agreeing with me, seeing how I posted equal discussion for both views. I am glad you agree no one knows enough to have a belief in religion too.
You 'missed' my point.
Christianity is about faith, not about facts. It's not based purely on evidence but it's definitely supported by evidence....and the faith is strengthened by personal experiences.
Of course for non-believers, they have to be supported by facts.
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i agree...also, to non-believers wad is evidence to believers is often not considered evidence...its abt the mindset and the diff in definition of certain impt terms as well as the experience(or lack of) wif God...to believers, tat experience is gd enuff evidence...however, is it possible to prove an experience to someone who nvr had it? this is where the crux of the matter is..
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Originally posted by despondent:
i agree...also, to non-believers wad is evidence to believers is often not considered evidence...its abt the mindset and the diff in definition of certain impt terms as well as the experience(or lack of) wif God...to believers, tat experience is gd enuff evidence...however, is it possible to prove an experience to someone who nvr had it? this is where the crux of the matter is..
Well, everybody claimed that they experience with their Gods (all religions) or Buddhas . So, which experience one should believe in? of course, the God or the Buddha the individual experience with, right ? That is why there are many followers in all the religions.
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so its all about faith and not facts
got it!
haha
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Originally posted by Happyinfo2:
So, we should change the Bible based on your personal naive thinking?
So somoene else suggested 1000 years, and yet there will be some with different figures...and who should we pleased?
So what if it's one day, one hundred days or one thousand years?
Does it change the fact that it is God who is the creator?
What science consideration you want to put in here?
OT - out of topic
has it ever been proved that there is even a god?
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Originally posted by laurence82:
so its all about faith and not facts
got it!
haha
arbo. to them, faith not science is the proof that god exist.
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Originally posted by Rooney9:
has it ever been proved that there is even a god?
Not really, but there isn't enough proof there is no god either. So, after thousands of years of wars, still at a standstill.
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Originally posted by ThunderFbolt:
Not really, but there isn't enough proof there is no god either. So, after thousands of years of wars, still at a standstill.
How to prove something dont exist? Afterall non believers (aka non christians in this sense) arent the one who propagate the existence of god, a son of god etc and attack those who dont believe
'isnt enough proof something isnt good or does not exist' is something i hear from bad salesman all the time
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Originally posted by laurence82:
so its all about faith and not facts
got it!
haha
You are quite stupid! You only know it now after engaging with arguments all this time?
You don't know much about buddhism or Islam either.
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Originally posted by googoomuck:
You are quite stupid! You only know it now after engaging with arguments all this time?
You don't know much about buddhism or Islam either.
Hey, good evening troll, i couldnt believe how much nonsense christianity could actually hold, but now i know the unlimited stupidity of it
