this forum is very shallow from the first place
Originally posted by laurence82:this forum is very shallow from the first place
Then I would like to change it to a serious forum.
laffin
PS: I am not paid by sgforums.com
Originally posted by laffin123:Then I would like to change it to a serious forum.
laffin
PS: I am not paid by sgforums.com
people tried that for 6 years aledi
Originally posted by laffin123:Hi happyinfo
Please don't OT me, let's talk more.
My science consideration is the report from carbon dating. I removed this idea totally and guessed 100 years should be okay. Okay, let's ignore all the days verses and earth creation and stuff, how can I feel the presence of god ? So far, I have not experience it.
laffin
How can you feel the presence of God when all you input into your minds are anti-Christians (or anti-God for that matter) stuff?
And even though you cannot feel His presence, it does not mean that God does not exist.....
To quote what you said: "Your mind can't be opened as you have pre-conceived" info such as those misrepresented facts you have been reading as the truth.
"Try 'opening your mind' in the strictest sense" and "to get you started, it is wise to study the origin of the bible and its history"
How else to study the origin of any faith but from their sources?
Look, if you are truely sincere and keen, you know where to go and there are more apporiate forum and discussions where you get better and more serious answers... and nothing beat learning from the source itself. Like I said, pm me if you are serious.
Well, if you are looking to to just says God does not exist without any way to back it up, then you should already know why this forum is shallow....
For most of the people like you, at best, they are not sure if God exist but choose to think He does not. That's fine but to make statement that God does not exist based on misrepresented facts, that's illogical and never "in support for REASON and EVIDENCE"
Originally posted by Happyinfo2:How can you feel the presence of God when all you input into your minds are anti-Christians (or anti-God for that matter) stuff?
And even though you cannot feel His presence, it does not mean that God does not exist.....
To quote what you said: "Your mind can't be opened as you have pre-conceived" info such as those misrepresented facts you have been reading as the truth.
"Try 'opening your mind' in the strictest sense" and "to get you started, it is wise to study the origin of the bible and its history"
How else to study the origin of any faith but from their sources?
Look, if you are truely sincere and keen, you know where to go and there are more apporiate forum and discussions where you get better and more serious answers... and nothing beat learning from the source itself. Like I said, pm me if you are serious.
Well, if you are looking to to just says God does not exist without any way to back it up, then you should already know why this forum is shallow....
For most of the people like you, at best, they are not sure if God exist but choose to think He does not. That's fine but to make statement that God does not exist based on misrepresented facts, that's illogical and never "in support for REASON and EVIDENCE"
As you can see from my previous posts, I adopted an open mind. You and gasband still skeptical of my intention. Let's be open and do it here, why the need of pm ?
I want to find out if supernatural beings exist. That's the very basis of faith. So far I have never experience it. If I cannot feel it, what kind of faith is it for me? If you invite me to your church/temple/mosque, can your priest point out where to feel a supernatural being? I don't think anyone here in this thread can confidently bring me there. If I don't feel it with your priest, I don't know what you want to say to me. If there is a supernatural being, I hope he will come out now and convince me now.
So I turn to reading. And I learnt more about religion origin. I came to know Darwin and feel very satisfied with his explanation.
I guess the discussion with you will lead to nowhere as you are skeptical of my motive. Whoever can convince me, I will follow your teaching. If it is so powerful, it can melt my heart of stone.
I still maintain "faith means NOT wanting to know more".
Luckily, I am a curious person who will keep on searching for cold hard facts. You can carry on label me as illogical person. My conclusion is maintain "no supernatural being whatsoever" and I have no regret labelled as a illogical fool. If a supernatural being come to know what I am typing now, please help me not to be illogical now.
If I am in an african tribe, guess Breadtalk will never fly to me. But if a supernatural being can perform miracle, come to me now, why wait to reveal yourself. If not powerful to perform miracle, then I prefer to satisfy with Darwin's teaching and it is still strengthening/correcting by cold hard facts everyday now. It provides far more REASON and EVIDENCE than what 'faithful' people here have been dodging me.
If you still question my "support of REASON and EVIDENCE", please show me the evident of "FAITH" now. I can't experience a god, I need someone to provide me an evident.
You are welcome to ask me any question of evolution and natural selection, I try my best to answer you.
sincerely
laffin for REASON and EVIDENCE
Originally posted by laurence82:people tried that for 6 years aledi
haha, you joined here on 2003 and that's made you the person who has been doing for 6 years.
haha, pass the baton to me, I continue your fine work here. I shall carry on as long as I can.
laffin
the debate never ends.
lets not challenge each others' beliefs / assumptions / facts / etc.
there are other things that are more worthwhile to do with life. just enjoy existence while it lasts, rather than question existence itself
Originally posted by laffin123:As you can see from my previous posts, I adopted an open mind. You and gasband still skeptical of my intention. Let's be open and do it here, why the need of pm ?
I want to find out if supernatural beings exist. That's the very basis of faith. So far I have never experience it. If I cannot feel it, what kind of faith is it for me? If you invite me to your church/temple/mosque, can your priest point out where to feel a supernatural being? I don't think anyone here in this thread can confidently bring me there. If I don't feel it with your priest, I don't know what you want to say to me. If there is a supernatural being, I hope he will come out now and convince me now.
So I turn to reading. And I learnt more about religion origin. I came to know Darwin and feel very satisfied with his explanation.
I guess the discussion with you will lead to nowhere as you are skeptical of my motive. Whoever can convince me, I will follow your teaching. If it is so powerful, it can melt my heart of stone.
I still maintain "faith means NOT wanting to know more".
Luckily, I am a curious person who will keep on searching for cold hard facts. You can carry on label me as illogical person. My conclusion is maintain "no supernatural being whatsoever" and I have no regret labelled as a illogical fool. If a supernatural being come to know what I am typing now, please help me not to be illogical now.
If I am in an african tribe, guess Breadtalk will never fly to me. But if a supernatural being can perform miracle, come to me now, why wait to reveal yourself. If not powerful to perform miracle, then I prefer to satisfy with Darwin's teaching and it is still strengthening/correcting by cold hard facts everyday now. It provides far more REASON and EVIDENCE than what 'faithful' people here have been dodging me.
If you still question my "support of REASON and EVIDENCE", please show me the evident of "FAITH" now. I can't experience a god, I need someone to provide me an evident.
You are welcome to ask me any question of evolution and natural selection, I try my best to answer you.
sincerely
laffin for REASON and EVIDENCE
You make me laughing......no puns intended.
And no I am not skeptical about intention but your actions and posts speaks for itself.
Faithless means refusal to face the truth....and you got it all wrong when you quote faith means not wanting to know more…..
And no, I am not inviting you to my house, temple, church or ask anyone to speak to you.... you think too much.
PM because to test your sincerity and honesty......
I did not label you illogical but reasons and evidence based on the fact that you made your decision even when you did not understand is self explanatory.
Darwin's misrepresented the Bible and I have given you links before.... It's up to you to read it with an open mind...something you claimed you do have but never displayed at all - at least to me.
And seriously, I am not dogging anything but so far none of your tribe is able to give proof that God did not exist..!! And why quote people who misrepresented the facts?
How to show you how to experience God when your mind is closed so tight as you post has indicated? And again, your inability to feel or experience does not means that God did not exist.
I will not ask you any question since your "facts" may be out-dated as proven before (and trust the pie is delicious) and also your conclusion make even a 5 years old laugh! Maybe when I am bored and needed a joke, I will ask you....like how have science prove origin of life? So far not yet....but will find out one day.....ha..ha..ha..
Originally posted by laffin123:haha, you joined here on 2003 and that's made you the person who has been doing for 6 years.
haha, pass the baton to me, I continue your fine work here. I shall carry on as long as I can.
laffin
tsk
u can, but i dont think it will work
u cannot talk sense to senseless people
Originally posted by Happyinfo2:You make me laughing......no puns intended.
And no I am not skeptical about intention but your actions and posts speaks for itself.
Faithless means refusal to face the truth....and you got it all wrong when you quote faith means not wanting to know more…..
And no, I am not inviting you to my house, temple, church or ask anyone to speak to you.... you think too much.
PM because to test your sincerity and honesty......
I did not label you illogical but reasons and evidence based on the fact that you made your decision even when you did not understand is self explanatory.
Darwin's misrepresented the Bible and I have given you links before.... It's up to you to read it with an open mind...something you claimed you do have but never displayed at all - at least to me.
And seriously, I am not dogging anything but so far none of your tribe is able to give proof that God did not exist..!! And why quote people who misrepresented the facts?
How to show you how to experience God when your mind is closed so tight as you post has indicated? And again, your inability to feel or experience does not means that God did not exist.
I will not ask you any question since your "facts" may be out-dated as proven before (and trust the pie is delicious) and also your conclusion make even a 5 years old laugh! Maybe when I am bored and needed a joke, I will ask you....like how have science prove origin of life? So far not yet....but will find out one day.....ha..ha..ha..
1) I have tried my best to open my mind. Do you mean I need to warp my thinking that god is looking at me from some place quietly? If yes, tell me so, then I try to feel god presence.
2) Yes, you are right, science is constantly answering the origin of life and we will find out one fine day. Preliminary studies: the universe is about 4 - 5 billion old. Trillion and trillions of chemical reactions took place since, and one chemical reaction successfully give birth to one living cell. As time slowly evolve, one cell become an intelligent being like us aided by natural selection. This is the origin of life. On why the universe exist, it is not very clear, although it has been forecast the universe will contract after expansion. Then it will collapse to a singular point and big band cycle continue again. This is my best ability to explain simply as possible. Hope to hear anyone helping and correcting me.
3) Care to tell me your opinion of the origin of life ? thanks.
laffin faces the HEAT squarely and will not dodge any science question.
Originally posted by laurence82:
tsku can, but i dont think it will work
u cannot talk sense to senseless people
sure laurence82, please continue your style. It is a pleasure to read your post.
I shall continue my style.
laffin
you post at the wrong forum lar. the people you are debating with are extremist / fundamentalist in their views. nothing you said will ever convince or get them to open their minds. I can see a couple of them here making ridiculous claims. anyone can make a claim without substantiating with facts. its pointless discussing with them, as it is very obvious they are ultra defensive. they perceived it as an attack on their religion. in the past like maybe 1000 years ago, if you dare to challenge their faith, they will probably find justification killing or stoning you to death.
"It is far better to understand the Universe as it really is than to pretend to
a Universe as we might wish it to be"
- Carl Sagan, astronomer, astrophysicist
Hi,
How well do you think humans know the universe?
Remember all scientific theories including big bang theory are theories. i.e. They are accepted until something shows it to be false. They are not gospel infallible truths.
Some scientists have explained that Genesis account of creation can be explained by Einstein's theory of relativity. i.e. time is not absolute so the one day in Genesis could mean a couple of million years. But again there is no way to verify this theory.
All I can say is that I believe in the God of the Bible since HE has touched my life in many ways. I know that HE is beyond our underatanding and our science is nothing compared to his knowledge!
See http://www.monergism.com/ to read more about this God
God bless you all
Originally posted by Hal Georgie:the debate never ends.
lets not challenge each others' beliefs / assumptions / facts / etc.
there are other things that are more worthwhile to do with life. just enjoy existence while it lasts, rather than question existence itself
Hi Hal and Louis,
my personal opinion "Truth is more important than happiness".
my 2 cents
laffin
I want to find out if supernatural beings exist. That's the very basis of faith. So far I have never experience it. If I cannot feel it, what kind of faith is it for me?
From a Song by Michael Card (Its a pretty nice tune if you can find it):
"To see with my heart,
To feel with my soul,
To be guided by a hand I cannot hold,
To believe in a way that I cannot see. Thats what faith must be."
To a Christian, faith (that Christ died for you) and faith alone is the only thing that can bring you through the gates of heaven - That is the fundamental basis of all Christianity.
No one can meet God's standard otherwise:
HIS law (Forget Human Perception of Law)
Lust = Adultery (Penalty: Eternal Death)
Hate = Murder (Penalty: Eternal Death)
I guess that basically disqualifies every human on earth from entering the gates of heaven.
No offence intended at anyone here just shedding some light on Christianity.
Originally posted by laffin123:1) I have tried my best to open my mind. Do you mean I need to warp my thinking that god is looking at me from some place quietly? If yes, tell me so, then I try to feel god presence.
2) Yes, you are right, science is constantly answering the origin of life and we will find out one fine day. Preliminary studies: the universe is about 4 - 5 billion old. Trillion and trillions of chemical reactions took place since, and one chemical reaction successfully give birth to one living cell. As time slowly evolve, one cell become an intelligent being like us aided by natural selection. This is the origin of life. On why the universe exist, it is not very clear, although it has been forecast the universe will contract after expansion. Then it will collapse to a singular point and big band cycle continue again. This is my best ability to explain simply as possible. Hope to hear anyone helping and correcting me.
3) Care to tell me your opinion of the origin of life ? thanks.
laffin faces the HEAT squarely and will not dodge any science question.
1. I don't think you have tried at all from your posts.....it is you who said you have an open mind and I should not define it for .... you should I ? How's a mind that is filled with anti-God thoughts for open mindedness? Resons and evidence should tell you.
2. Can they even agree on the findings? And yes, they are unclear over many issues and everything boils down to this....they are speculating......and there is no way they can prove the one cell thingy nor the bang bang theory. What reasons and evidence are we talking about? Yet, your hearts is melted by those speculations?
3. Don't you already know my opinion on the origin of life? It's beyond your understanding or perhaps, your refusal to try and understand and to know more...
Despite saying that you are keen to learn and open minded etc..., you continuously post the same old crap...why not spend some time to read up the alterantive? At least in the spirit of wanting to know more and satisfy your curious litlle mind.....a little more than those crappy misrepresented facts....
I am not even asking you to beleive in God.....I am only telling you right from the start, I am providing an alternate view from TS. You said you want people to open up their minds? How ? By trusting in those misrepresented facts? Or for people to read and view both versions and come to a conclusion themselves?
It's ok not to believe in God but at least know the reasons....and if you want to come to a Christian forum to says God does not exist, at least show some proof....
Originally posted by Fortmax777:"It is far better to understand the Universe as it really is than to pretend to
a Universe as we might wish it to be"
- Carl Sagan, astronomer, astrophysicistHi,
How well do you think humans know the universe?
Remember all scientific theories including big bang theory are theories. i.e. They are accepted until something shows it to be false. They are not gospel infallible truths.
Some scientists have explained that Genesis account of creation can be explained by Einstein's theory of relativity. i.e. time is not absolute so the one day in Genesis could mean a couple of million years. But again there is no way to verify this theory.
All I can say is that I believe in the God of the Bible since HE has touched my life in many ways. I know that HE is beyond our underatanding and our science is nothing compared to his knowledge!
See http://www.monergism.com/ to read more about this God
God bless you all
Hi Fortmax, thanks for replying. I can see that you are a reasonable person.
i) It is interesting to learn from you that scientist used relativity to explain Genesis. It could be a giant gravity in the past somewhere in space, that warp time and accelerate the birth of earth. This could be done in one day if the gravity is that huge. So this is a possibility of verifying Genesis' one day arguement.
ii) Also you raise another point that one day could represent a million year in the Genesis. This is another point of view. Can be acceptable for argument sake.
iii) My point (i) above also raise another controversy. Why does the author of Genesis know it is one day (with accelerated Einistein's relative theory) ?
sincerely
laffin
Originally posted by Fortmax777:
No offence, I am somebody who does not believe in creator. Why Christ must die for us ? In the first place, God shouldn't create us and this world. If God has really created human beings and this world, I think He has somehow lost control of what he has created.
Originally posted by Happyinfo2:1. I don't think you have tried at all from your posts.....it is you who said you have an open mind and I should not define it for .... you should I ? How's a mind that is filled with anti-God thoughts for open mindedness? Resons and evidence should tell you.
2. Can they even agree on the findings? And yes, they are unclear over many issues and everything boils down to this....they are speculating......and there is no way they can prove the one cell thingy nor the bang bang theory. What reasons and evidence are we talking about? Yet, your hearts is melted by those speculations?
3. Don't you already know my opinion on the origin of life? It's beyond your understanding or perhaps, your refusal to try and understand and to know more...
Despite saying that you are keen to learn and open minded etc..., you continuously post the same old crap...why not spend some time to read up the alterantive? At least in the spirit of wanting to know more and satisfy your curious litlle mind.....a little more than those crappy misrepresented facts....
I am not even asking you to beleive in God.....I am only telling you right from the start, I am providing an alternate view from TS. You said you want people to open up their minds? How ? By trusting in those misrepresented facts? Or for people to read and view both versions and come to a conclusion themselves?
It's ok not to believe in God but at least know the reasons....and if you want to come to a Christian forum to says God does not exist, at least show some proof....
1) Fact: You cannot show me how to feel god. Don't say I misrepresent your god in the future. {It's ok, I understand your limitation.}
2) Yes, the science result findings are overwhelmingly plenty and sometimes they contradict each other. Okay, scientist identified the contradiction and they dig deeper to understand. We are willing to owe up to any wrong finding. Why are you dodging the contradiction of Genesis 4:17 and tell me about REASON AND EVIDENCE ?!?!!!!!!!!! I can maintain my patience with you for so long because I know you need help to see through this. {It's ok, I understand your limitation.}
3) Dodging the matter again. Be proud of you faith and tell me your stand ! {It's ok, I understand your limitation.}
I came in to this forum not to create tension, but awareness.
laffin
PS: I think I am losing stamina, and I need a break. My reply will be delayed.
Originally posted by Dawnfirstlight:No offence, I am somebody who does not believe in creator. Why Christ must die for us ? In the first place, God shouldn't create us and this world. If God has really created human beings and this world, I think He has somehow lost control of what he has created.
That's very interesting.
Originally posted by laffin123:1) Fact: You cannot show me how to feel god. Don't say I misrepresent your god in the future. {It's ok, I understand your limitation.}
2) Yes, the science result findings are overwhelmingly plenty and sometimes they contradict each other. Okay, scientist identified the contradiction and they dig deeper to understand. We are willing to owe up to any wrong finding. Why are you dodging the contradiction of Genesis 4:17 and tell me about REASON AND EVIDENCE ?!?!!!!!!!!! I can maintain my patience with you for so long because I know you need help to see through this. {It's ok, I understand your limitation.}
3) Dodging the matter again. Be proud of you faith and tell me your stand ! {It's ok, I understand your limitation.}
I came in to this forum not to create tension, but awareness.
laffin
PS: I think I am losing stamina, and I need a break. My reply will be delayed.
1. Fact is, your mind is closed and that's your limitation.
2. Fact is, science has no answer as yet.....and that's your limitation because your mind are closed to any alternative views...
3. Dodging what? Fact is, your closed mind is your limitation to learn more.....and refusal to face the truth.
No, you came here not to create awareness as your posts has shown (as well as timing). If you are here to create awareness, then open your minds to alternative views.....
Yes, have a break and read thru this thread.....as well as the alternative views.
Originally posted by laffin123:Hi Hal and Louis,
my personal opinion "Truth is more important than happiness".
my 2 cents
laffin
And the truth is - science has no answers..... yet. Truth is important but cannot be found using misrepresented facts.
Originally posted by Dawnfirstlight:No offence, I am somebody who does not believe in creator. Why Christ must die for us ? In the first place, God shouldn't create us and this world. If God has really created human beings and this world, I think He has somehow lost control of what he has created.
Which is why one should go to the source to learn if they are keen to find out.......if not, will just continue to wonder......and will not find an answer....
Does bible have the answers?
Oh i forgot, bible claims to have the answers.
Oh wait, it should be, people claim bible have the answers.