Reason/science vs Supernatural
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Originally posted by dadeadman1337:
Has anyone actually heard a sermon where the priest/pastor reads out a passage from the old testament telling people to kill the person who tells you to convert to other religions? Or the other nasty passages of human sacrifice, male superiority? If not, one must ask why they choose to conceal the parts that do not aid their cause in drawing in more people. Hiding the nasty parts in a whitewash of religious text
so violent sia. killing people for this is indeed lame. what sort of religion is this when the priests told people to kill others. killing will always be wrong, religion or no religion. what kinda of a wacko priest was that?
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Originally posted by BadzMaro:
Book of Judges. Was it condoned ? All we know NOW is that Jesus came to prevent this kind of thing from happening. The misconceptions.
So please dont just quote a small little passage without knowing the full. Like so many others.
*yawn*
u can do better then that, dadeadman1337
Note that i did not give a quote, however the books of deuteronomy and Leviticus seems to be rife with these teachings. Precisely because of the new testament, with the softer approach, do I feel that these two testaments seem inconsistent. In one testament god seems to be genocidal, racist, and among other things, but in the new testament jesus is portrayed as compassionate and kind. Due to these disparities, I find it hard to believe that the god in both are one and the same. Since Christianity recognises both, I request for everyone to show a degree of skepticism
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Originally posted by dadeadman1337:
Note that i did not give a quote, however the books of deuteronomy and Leviticus seems to be rife with these teachings. Precisely because of the new testament, with the softer approach, do I feel that these two testaments seem inconsistent. In one testament god seems to be genocidal, racist, and among other things, but in the new testament jesus is portrayed as compassionate and kind. Due to these disparities, I find it hard to believe that the god in both are one and the same. Since Christianity recognises both, I request for everyone to show a degree of skepticism
exactly what I have been pointimg out. there seems to be 2 different god. the earlier god was somewhat petty, always angry and genocidal, whereas the latter god was portrayed as compassionate and all merciful, very inconsistent indeed.
in movies and tv production, this is called scripting by the scriptor. the stories plots and sub plots, heroes and villians were written by the scriptor. so the old and new testament were also written according to the whims and fancies of the author. fair point?
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Originally posted by dadeadman1337:
Note that i did not give a quote, however the books of deuteronomy and Leviticus seems to be rife with these teachings. Precisely because of the new testament, with the softer approach, do I feel that these two testaments seem inconsistent. In one testament god seems to be genocidal, racist, and among other things, but in the new testament jesus is portrayed as compassionate and kind. Due to these disparities, I find it hard to believe that the god in both are one and the same. Since Christianity recognises both, I request for everyone to show a degree of skepticism
I welcome your skepticsm. Sometimes, different times need different approach. Its like how very visible big miracles doesnt seem to happen any more in a large scale, hundreds of thousands of people witness back in the old testament daysn hardly any of such magnitude in the new testament.
Its evolutionary, but u will notice that its for the better. As u notice we no longer sacrifice animals, the bridge between man n God in the old testament is broken, and Jesus's time brought about new understandings, teachings of love and the likes.
So yeah, no doubt u feel skeptical.
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Originally posted by Rooney9:
exactly what I have been pointimg out. there seems to be 2 different god. the earlier god was somewhat petty, always angry and genocidal, whereas the latter god was portrayed as compassionate and all merciful, very inconsistent indeed.
in movies and tv production, this is called scripting by the scriptor. the stories plots and sub plots, heroes and villians were written by the scriptor. so the old and new testament were also written according to the whims and fancies of the author. fair point?
eh, dont forget, we talking about God being the director, he cant exactly control us as he has given us free will. In the movies and producers, the actors are TOLD EXACTLY what to do accordingly to the script.
If u are the Almighty, ur old ways doesnt seem to really bring the message out, you continue to try different methods. If the old ways are wrong and doesnt work, you dont continue to ram ur head against the wall right?
All this is a message, of teachings. To understand that there is a living God.
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but what kind of a god is that when it demands its followers to kill others esp the non believers or even waged wars in the first testament? to me, its the behaviour befitting of a human being. in the history, only humans are capable of committing atrocities such as this. if they indeed carried out the misdeeds just cos the testament or priests said so, then they were misled and fools indeed. always think if the deed is a right or wrong deed. killing is always wrong, religion or no religion. whats the use of having a religion if you cant even distinguish between right and wrong.
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Originally posted by BadzMaro:
eh, dont forget, we talking about God being the director, he cant exactly control us as he has given us free will. In the movies and producers, the actors are TOLD EXACTLY what to do accordingly to the script.
If u are the Almighty, ur old ways doesnt seem to really bring the message out, you continue to try different methods. If the old ways are wrong and doesnt work, you dont continue to ram ur head against the wall right?
All this is a message, of teachings. To understand that there is a living God.
wrong. If I am the almighty, there will be no hells and earth only heavens. heck, I would not even bother creating if I know in advance there are so many problems and sufferings caused. thats the paradox of an almighty one.
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Well, if u read carefully, he made a promise with God, now, to really know whether his Victory WAS a sign from God telling him to sacirifice his daughter or not, we will never know. ALL we know is that NOW, it is confirmed, after Jesus came , that it is NOT the way.
If the bible really wanted to be a peoples bible and be all goody goody, they would omit these details. But u will notice that no, thats not how it is. All the truths are recorded, we learn, we see those fall from grace. We see bad turned to good.
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there are so many ways and means to educate people. but to punish them just because they are not receptive showed that you are not using your skilful means to educate them. stop defending the indefensible. I now its hard defending paradoxes.
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Originally posted by Rooney9:
wrong. If I am the almighty, there will be no hells and earth only heavens. heck, I would not even bother creating if I know in advance there are so many problems and sufferings caused. thats the paradox of an almighty one.
Thats why u will never be the Almighty.
U and your paradoxes.. because u bring Him to YOUR level. So please la.
What were the angels for then ... geez... its the notion of FREE WILL. Get it ? U want boring automatons like those robots in the car factory. I am sure, they are very interesting ... 'creatures'
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If i am not mistaken, were u the one that kept asking about the .. PARADOXES.. of can He create something he cant lift...
lol
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Originally posted by Rooney9:
there are so many ways and means to educate people. but to punish them just because they are not receptive showed that you are not using your skilful means to educate them. stop defending the indefensible. I now its hard defending paradoxes.
I am hardly defending the indefensible, because i would not be defending something that is not capable of being defended. You however, are not very smart. Maybe u just open yourself to the possiblities, then being as 'defensive' ... i wonder who is really defending the indefensible, when it is your own indefeasable thinking about the impossiblities that is in question.
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cos you are defending the atrocities of the old god from the old testament. we know that killing is always wrong, religion or no religion. if we humans know this is wrong, surely the supernatural being up there (its existence is still debatable till now) will surely know killing is wrong. how can you justify killing esp for a lame reason like killing those who wants to convert you. imagine there is a religion who sprang up and then its priests demanded its followers to justify killing those who wish to convert them, whatever the reasons. they may say their god justify the killings according to their holy books.
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Originally posted by dadeadman1337:
Yes, it is a view held by many scholars, thus the basis for the distrust in the accuracy of the bible, and whether or not the disciples were who they claimed they were. The writers of the 4 gospels, only 2 claimed to be disciples. Another point of contention is the claim of the masscre of the infants by herod, only mentioned in one gospel and mentioned no where else in any historical text. Questionable? You may google these issues and find out
Did the Titanic pop its rivets or tear a hole in her side? Did she split in two at the surface as some witnesses said or did it happen just as she sank as other witnesses said?
Why would the gospels all be the same? So many events happened during the33 years that the 4 authors, all from different background, could record similar events and supplement with additional different events not witnessed by all 4 authors at the same time.
Lastly, who are these scholars who selectively picked a few verse and concentrated on them?
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Well, u gotta look at the context of it. If you got a satanic group trying desperately to convert you, hey, its you or them. Now its Thou Shalt not murder, doesnt mean u cant kill. And when i say kill, doesnt mean i justify killing. Alot of this kind of talk, we really have to understand the message the bible is trying to send us. It never said ..KILLING.. is O>K. Go out there, KILL ALL WHO CONVERTS. They may say God justified, but who are we to judge them in the end. All i know is i wont. They did, the repeccusions and sins they have to bear for eternal, is well, going to be very painful.
U have to understand that the Bible , is that it can be used to apply in its interpretations as it evolves along with us together with the time. It didnt say . Dont Watch Porn in ur PC. But it did say, not to be sucked in to this kid of lust and thoughts (which i admit.. even for me.. its kinda... hard....
) , hence, U dont see us killing and quoting the verse saying.. YES.. KILL.. that is more like hardline extremists way of thinking into the literal meaning. -
Originally posted by Rooney9:
cos you are defending the atrocities of the old god from the old testament. we know that killing is always wrong, religion or no religion. if we humans know this is wrong, surely the supernatural being up there (its existence is still debatable till now) will surely know killing is wrong. how can you justify killing esp for a lame reason like killing those who wants to convert you. imagine there is a religion who sprang up and then its priests demanded its followers to justify killing those who wish to convert them, whatever the reasons. they may say their god justify the killings according to their holy books.
Killing, you mean when God commanded Joshua to exterminate entire villages
? But then,, did you read what was the reason behind it? -
Originally posted by BadzMaro:
Well, u gotta look at the context of it. If you got a satanic group trying desperately to convert you, hey, its you or them. Now its Thou Shalt not murder, doesnt mean u cant kill. And when i say kill, doesnt mean i justify killing. Alot of this kind of talk, we really have to understand the message the bible is trying to send us. It never said ..KILLING.. is O>K. Go out there, KILL ALL WHO CONVERTS. They may say God justified, but who are we to judge them in the end. All i know is i wont. They did, the repeccusions and sins they have to bear for eternal, is well, going to be very painful.
U have to understand that the Bible , is that it can be used to apply in its interpretations as it evolves along with us together with the time. It didnt say . Dont Watch Porn in ur PC. But it did say, not to be sucked in to this kid of lust and thoughts (which i admit.. even for me.. its kinda... hard....
) , hence, U dont see us killing and quoting the
verse saying.. YES.. KILL.. that is more like hardline extremists
way of thinking into the literal meaning.You watch porn... ? D:
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Originally posted by Rooney9:
exactly what I have been pointimg out. there seems to be 2 different god. the earlier god was somewhat petty, always angry and genocidal, whereas the latter god was portrayed as compassionate and all merciful, very inconsistent indeed.
in movies and tv production, this is called scripting by the scriptor. the stories plots and sub plots, heroes and villians were written by the scriptor. so the old and new testament were also written according to the whims and fancies of the author. fair point?
Or maybe Buddha really went up to heaven to enlighten him. LOL.
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Originally posted by googoomuck:
Did the Titanic pop its rivets or tear a hole in her side? Did she split in two at the surface as some witnesses said or did it happen just as she sank as other witnesses said?
Why would the gospels all be the same? So many events happened during the33 years that the 4 authors, all from different background, could record similar events and supplement with additional different events not witnessed by all 4 authors at the same time.
Lastly, who are these scholars who selectively picked a few verse and concentrated on them?
The titanic has no bearing on our lives. As for the gospels being the same, i would think that an infanticide of that magnitude would have been important enough to at least mention? Somehow history and 3 gospels forgot about it. Lastly about the scholars picking verses, if the church did not create an entire feast day, thousands of sermons and even name schools after it, maybe the people wouldn't concentrate on it as much.
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Originally posted by dadeadman1337:
The titanic has no bearing on our lives. As for the gospels being the same, i would think that an infanticide of that magnitude would have been important enough to at least mention? Somehow history and 3 gospels forgot about it. Lastly about the scholars picking verses, if the church did not create an entire feast day, thousands of sermons and even name schools after it, maybe the people wouldn't concentrate on it as much.
why you even bother replying, when he is hell bent on being a troll here.
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Originally posted by Rooney9:
why you even bother replying, when he is hell bent on being a troll here.
In case anyone else might seek to ask the same.
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Did the Titanic pop its rivets or tear a hole in her side? Did she split in two at the surface as some witnesses said or did it happen just as she sank as other witnesses said?
Why would the gospels all be the same? So many events happened during the33 years that the 4 authors, all from different background, could record similar events and supplement with additional different events not witnessed by all 4 authors at the same time.
The problem is they contradict each other. An old tale is: Who are the first people who see jesus when he is resurrected.
If people have different account on how titanic goes down and it can not be verified, then we don't believe any of them.
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Originally posted by dadeadman1337:
The titanic has no bearing on our lives. As for the gospels being the same, i would think that an infanticide of that magnitude would have been important enough to at least mention? Somehow history and 3 gospels forgot about it. Lastly about the scholars picking verses, if the church did not create an entire feast day, thousands of sermons and even name schools after it, maybe the people wouldn't concentrate on it as much.
The Titanic is an analogy to explain that age and knowledge makes a difference in an eyewitness account of an event . A witness with an engineering knowledge can describe the event in a more detailed manner than a youth.
Matthew could had been older than Jesus and therefore had witnessed the killing of infants and children. Maybe, for factors known only to the authors of the other books, they had decided which similar events to be included or omitted from their books.
The gospels were not written for today's critics.
The christians can treat the gospels as four volumes of a book and are to read all of them for a full story.
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Originally posted by googoomuck:
The Titanic is an analogy to explain that age and knowledge makes a difference in an eyewitness account of an event . A witness with an engineering knowledge can describe the event in a more detailed manner than a youth.
Matthew could had been older than Jesus and therefore had witnessed the killing of infants and children. Maybe, for factors known only to the authors of the other books, they had decided which similar events to be included or omitted from their books.
The gospels were not written for today's critics.
The christians can treat the gospels as four volumes of a book and are to read all of them for a full story.
I don't think anyone can claim to be knowledgeable in such areas, its like someone claiming to be a astrology expert. If historical sources do not mention a large infanticide on such a scale, makes it very likely that it never happened at all.
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there is supposed to be an earthquake when jesus died, splitting a temple and the dead people start walking on busy streets, proclaiming the power of jesus. Surprisingly no historian mention this miraculous event. If people then has a shred of IQ, they will immediately believe in jesus. Surprisingly though everyone then just live normally as though nothing happened.