Hi all to those who are interested to read the scripture and avoid the low life's who obviously here to prevent people from finding out the cult of christianity. read and realise why churches avoid important questions. www.messiahtruth.com
There are a few kinks in Christian theology that the common Christian will encounter and ignore to avoid the discomfort that comes from confronting them. The following is a brief study of some of these issues.
Messiah comes from the Hebrew word for "anointed one," which is pronounced "Moshiach." Kings, prophets, and priests were all anointed. Hence, all were messiahs. In the Bible, you can break prophecy into two groups, immediate prophecies and long-term prophecies. Immediate prophecies are prophecies that take place not long after they are given. Long-term prophecies are another category altogether. These prophecies can all be construed as messianic, since they refer to the Messianic Era. These prophecies that refer to a future king are the ones that refer to the Messiah himself. We call him the Messiah by convention because all kings were messiahs, since they were all anointed. The following is a list of prophecies that show the theme of the Messianic Era.
World Peace
Isaiah 2:4 And he shall judge among the nations, and shall rebuke many people: and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruninghooks: nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more. (KJV)
11:6 The wolf also shall dwell with the lamb, and the leopard shall lie down with the kid; and the calf and the young lion and the fatling together; and a little child shall lead them. (KJV)
This is not the sort of thing that passes people by.
Universal Knowledge and Recognition of G-d
Isaiah 11:9 They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain: for the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the LORD, as the waters cover the sea. (KJV)
Jeremiah 31:34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know Me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more. (KJV)
The last time I checked, those who didn’t "know the Lord" represented one-third of this planet.
The Resurrection of the Dead
Isaiah 26:19 Thy dead [men] shall live, [together with] my dead body shall they arise. Awake and sing, ye that dwell in dust: for thy dew [is as] the dew of herbs, and the earth shall cast out the dead. (KJV)
Ezekiel 37:12 Therefore prophesy and say unto them, Thus saith the Lord G-D; Behold, O my people, I will open your graves, and cause you to come up out of your graves, and bring you into the land of Israel. [13] And ye shall know that I [am] the LORD, when I have opened your graves, O my people, and brought you up out of your graves, [14] And shall put my spirit in you, and ye shall live, and I shall place you in your own land: then shall ye know that I the LORD have spoken [it], and performed [it], saith the LORD. (KJV)
The Ingathering of the Jewish Exiles
Isaiah 11:11 And it shall come to pass in that day, [that] the Lord shall set his hand again the second time to recover the remnant of his people, which shall be left, from Assyria, and from Egypt, and from Pathros, and from Cush, and from Elam, and from Shinar, and from Hamath, and from the islands of the sea. [12] And he shall set up an ensign for the nations, and shall assemble the outcasts of Israel, and gather together the dispersed of Judah from the four corners of the earth. (KJV)
Isaiah 43:5 Fear not: for I [am] with thee: I will bring thy seed from the east, and gather thee from the west; [6] I will say to the north, Give up; and to the south, Keep not back: bring my sons from far, and my daughters from the ends of the earth; (KJV)
Jeremiah 23:8 But, The LORD liveth, which brought up and which led the seed of the house of Israel out of the north country, and from all countries whither I had driven them; and they shall dwell in their own land. (KJV)
This is the one prophecy that occurs most often in all of the Jewish Bible. While this prophecy has apparently begun to come true, we cannot say that is has completely.
The Building of the Third Temple
Ezekiel 37:26 Moreover I will make a covenant of peace with them; it shall be an everlasting covenant with them: and I will place them, and multiply them, and will set My sanctuary in the midst of them for evermore. [27] My tabernacle also shall be with them: yea, I will be their G-d, and they shall be my people. [28] And the heathen shall know that I the LORD do sanctify Israel, when My sanctuary shall be in the midst of them for evermore. (KJV)
The third holiest place in all of Islam is in the way of this occurring.
When all of these things take place, and a king descended from David sits on the throne, we will know who the Messiah is. Until these things happen, we shall wait. We have no way of knowing who that future king is until these things take place. The standard Christian argument is to thus claim that Jesus will accomplish these things in his "Second Coming." This brings us to our next portion.
The convenient explanation of how Jesus can be the Messiah without fulfilling the prophecies is "he will when he returns." Realistically, this is a contrived solution. Let us go over why this is not a viable solution:
1) There isn’t a single prophecy in scripture that tells us the Messiah would come, die, be resurrected, and then return thousands of years later to BEGIN his mission. Jesus didn’t do anything that the Messiah is to do.
2) You don’t know a man is the Messiah until all the messianic prophecies have been fulfilled. Jesus didn’t fulfill any of them, and as such, there’s no reason to believe he was the promised one, nor is there any reason to believe he’d return at some later date to fulfill them.
3) The Second Coming theory completely discredits his first coming. Anyone could have followers, and upon his death, those followers could claim that he had been resurrected, and would one day return. I could even do that.
The New Testament says repeatedly that Jesus’ return was imminent.
Matthew 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: [30] And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. [31] And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other. [32] Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer [is] nigh: [33] So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, [even] at the doors. [34]Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.(KJV)
Luke 21:25 And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring; [26] Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken. [27] And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory. [28] And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh. [29] And he spake to them a parable; Behold the fig tree, and all the trees; [30] When they now shoot forth, ye see and know of your own selves that summer is now nigh at hand. [31] So likewise ye, when ye see these things come to pass, know ye that the kingdom of G-d is nigh at hand. [32] Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all be fulfilled. (KJV)
Paul wrote that the time until Jesus’ return was so short that people should change the way they lived their lives.
1 Corinthians 7:29 But this I say, brethren, the time [is] short: it remaineth, that both they that have wives be as though they had none; [30] And they that weep, as though they wept not; and they that rejoice, as though they rejoiced not; and they that buy, as though they possessed not; [31] And they that use this world, as not abusing [it]: for the fashion of this world passeth away. (KJV)
1 Thessalonians 4:13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope. [14] For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will G-d bring with him. [15] For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive [and] remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. (KJV)
Paul had to continually refine the date of the Second Coming when it never happened. The fact that it didn’t happen as they predicted necessitated that they revise the prediction, saying it would happen at some future date. However, the fact that the original prediction did not come true places it under the instructions in the Torah:
Deuteronomy 18:20 But the prophet, which shall presume to speak a word in my name, which I have not commanded him to speak, or that shall speak in the name of other gods, even that prophet shall die. [21] And if thou say in thine heart, How shall we know the word which the LORD hath not spoken? [22] When a prophet speaketh in the name of the LORD, if the thing follow not, nor come to pass, that [is] the thing which the LORD hath not spoken, [but] the prophet hath spoken it presumptuously: thou shalt not be afraid of him. (KJV)
It didn’t happen. That means it wasn’t G-d’s word, and it wasn’t to be believed.
Malachi 4:5 Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the LORD: [6] And he shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers, lest I come and smite the earth with a curse. (KJV)
While this prophecy doesn’t contain a reference to the actual future king, both Christians and Jews agree that it is messianic in nature. Before the future king comes, Elijah the Prophet will come to usher in that new age. So, where was he two thousand years ago? Christians claim that John the Baptist was Elijah. John himself seemed to disagree:
John 1:21 And they asked him, What then? Art thou Elias? And he saith, I am not. Art thou that prophet? And he answered, No. (KJV)
(Note: King James Version calls Elijah "Elias" in their New Testament translation.)
So, John was Elijah, yet he was unaware of it. In arguing this, Christians refer to this telling verse from Luke’s Gospel:
Luke 1:17 And he shall go before him in the spirit and power of Elias, to turn the hearts of the fathers to the children, and the disobedient to the wisdom of the just; to make ready a people prepared for the Lord. (KJV)
This does not work. Did the prophecy from Malachi say Elijah in spirit? No, it said Elijah himself. It’s difficult to argue with a spirit, but even more difficult for Christians to prove. One would think John himself would be a bit more certain of his own identity and his place in the scheme of things? After all, he did deny being Elijah! Once again, we find Christianity's solution is predicated by the needs of its theology, and not by the facts.
Did John even play a part that fulfilled the prophecy of Elijah? Did he turn the hearts of fathers to the children, and hearts of children to their fathers? No, he did not. Additionally, Jesus identified John as Elijah. That’s the exact opposite of how this works. The prophet identifies the king, not vice versa. See 1 Samuel for an example of this. G-d uses the prophet to tell the people who the king is.
Additionally, this issue brings up the fact that the New Testament fabricated evidence yet again to give itself the illusion of validity.
Mark 9:13 But I say unto you, That Elias is indeed come, and they have done unto him whatsoever they listed, as it is written of him. (KJV)
Where is it written that Elijah would come and be abused? The prophecy in Malachi is short, yet concise. How can anyone put faith in a religion that unjustifiably builds itself off another religion, and then abuses the privelege? The New Testament does this more than once, and even once is inexcusable.
If Jesus was the Messiah, where was Elijah?
There is an issue at hand, which few people are considering:
Why has apologetics become such a vital function of modern Christianity?
Why do Christians so desperately need people like Josh McDowell? When you go searching for reading material on religions via the Internet, you could go to Yahoo and explore religions, and find the Judaism section of Faiths and Practices, and you'll find nothing entitled "Apologetics." Go to the Christianity section and you'll find enough of it to be reading until the dawn of the 22nd century. Why is this necessary? Doesn't the reason for that speak for itself?
A Cult of Personality
I would be thrilled if I could find someone who could direct me to the verse in the Jewish scriptures which refer to a "belief" in the Messiah. All the true messianic prophecies never give any hint that the Jewish religion itself would change in some dramatic way. The practices involved would be performed perfectly, but never does it say that the basic precepts of the religion would be altered in any way.
Try to find in the Jewish Bible words that echo John 3:36. While you're looking, try to find the prophet who's quoted in Matthew 2:23. You'll never find either one.
What many Christians fail to realize is that in the Jewish view of the Messiah, when he comes, the Jews are NOT going to pray to him!
The revelation of the gentiles' errors is foretold in Jewish scriptures in places such as Isaiah 53 and the below passage.
Zechariah 8:23 Thus says the LORD of hosts: In those days ten men from nations of every language shall take hold of a Jew, grasping his garment and saying, "Let us go with you, for we have heard that G-d is with you." (NRSV)
Vindication is the Jewish people's birthright. Christian missionaries will say that when the day comes, the Jews will be proven wrong.The Jewish Bible says otherwise.
So? Who the fark accredited Yaweh with a professional degree or qualification as a god?
the truth riles the wicked. I like that.
Originally posted by KnowMyPower:the truth riles the wicked. I like that.
And you are being riled.
the truth riles the wicked. I like that.
And you are being riled by the truth.
Why is every topic you make attacking christianity and God? :(
because he knows if the discussion is allowed to continue it will lead to truths. the bible may be thick but its in simple english & hebrew.
Originally posted by Asdatale:Why is every topic you make attacking christianity and God? :(
there are people that stand to gain from this confusion. it doesnt take long to figure out which groups are.
So do you create these topics to answer your own questions or are they for people to learn???? And learn what??? Whta's your purpose?????? :S
Originally posted by Miracles&Prophecies:
Because he's a troll look at his post count. He must have created this one just to troll and even perhaps paid for attacking Christianity and God not that he can attack either one.
Because I dare to speak and state the truth in life, that there is no god or whatsoever.
Psalms 14:1 "The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God...." :D
Seriously? What is wrong with you and JESUS CHRIST? HUH? Are you SO SURE that Jesus was NOT the messiah? If he was not, why is it mentioned in the bible that JESUS IS THE SON OF GOD?
God = trinity, consisting of 3 individuals.
Thus, Jehovah is an individual, so is Jesus, and the holy spirit. God is only God when they are combined into ONE.
And also, because Jesus was part of the trinity, he is called the 'son' of God. But he is more emphasized on being the son of God because he is the only one in the trinity to be brought down from heaven to Earth, just for Jehovah to understand his creation.
Knowmypower, you are too deluded. You claim that the bible and christian theology are contradicted, but there is much more proof from the BIBLE that Jesus was the son of GOD, and is GOD. Read the bible all over again, MY DEAR. And if Jesus really wasnt the son of God, many people would have brought it up a long time ago, such as bible scholars, let alone you, a meaningless idiot flung between your crazy fantasies.
To herzog Zwei : Seriously. No one knows whether God really exists or not. Not even the smartest scientist, or even a bible scholar. To know whether God exists, you must have 100% of knowledge in this entire universe, and even know the love story of some fleas on your grandma's pet cat. 1% of knowledge in this universe is not even enough to proof the many questions on how the universe was made, let alone your poor and quick assumptions.
larryteo, oh you are sure trinity is the ticket but then back down on the reality of g-d?
at least Herzog is more honest than you. I respect that.
am i deluded? have i not shown you scriptures instead of my views? so far you show your VIEWS and zero, yes, ZEROOOOOOOOOO scripture. How lazy and unsincere is that. bible scholars my ass. In terms of intellignece the jews are smarter, in terms of blessings so are they.
you talk out of your ass and you speak in tongues, you eat the pig when its the same pig 2000 years ago (meaning dirty). then you get cancer and beg jesus to heal you????!!!! fuck off.
dont spread your loser religion just because a lot of young ppl got conned. the internet era now has exposed the truth becasue the hebrew text can be referred to. Chrisitian leaders are very afraid now, thats why they are trying very hard to convert the jews!!!!! the time is up, the time is upon us all.
Originally posted by KnowMyPower:dont spread your loser religion just because a lot of young ppl got conned. the internet era now has exposed the truth becasue the hebrew text can be referred to. Chrisitian leaders are very afraid now, thats why they are trying very hard to convert the jews!!!!! the time is up, the time is upon us all.
get a grip dude.... Christian leaders have be trying to convert the jews even before the internet age.
another confusing statement... "the internet era now has exposed the truth becasue the hebrew text can be referred to" you mean before the internet era, the hebrew text CANNOT BE REFERRED TO?
Originally posted by Miracles&Prophecies:
Because he's a troll look at his post count. He must have created this one just to troll and even perhaps paid for attacking Christianity and God not that he can attack either one.
u are a troll too
u have no speaking rights
Originally posted by KnowMyPower:
am i deluded? have i not shown you scriptures instead of my views? so far you show your VIEWS and zero, yes, ZEROOOOOOOOOO scripture. How lazy and unsincere is that. bible scholars my ass. In terms of intellignece the jews are smarter, in terms of blessings so are they.
you talk out of your ass and you speak in tongues, you eat the pig when its the same pig 2000 years ago (meaning dirty). then you get cancer and beg jesus to heal you????!!!! fuck off.
dont spread your loser religion just because a lot of young ppl got conned. the internet era now has exposed the truth becasue the hebrew text can be referred to. Chrisitian leaders are very afraid now, thats why they are trying very hard to convert the jews!!!!! the time is up, the time is upon us all.
do jews suffer from cancer? http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15516840
are jews the smarter people http://nymag.com/nymetro/news/culture/features/1478/index3.html
if jews are the most intelligent people in the world, then they are probably not the happiest http://www.scribd.com/doc/8778/Why-Intelligent-People-Tend-To-Be-Unhappy
and yes, you are deluded.
Now, now....don't turn this into a flame topic....We're losung focus on the topic here.....stop throwing ugly comments....>< (Argh what am I saying?!)
Originally posted by Asdatale:Now, now....don't turn this into a flame topic....We're losung focus on the topic here.....stop throwing ugly comments....>< (Argh what am I saying?!)
in case you have not noticed, this is already a flame topic from post 1.
Chin Eng,
NOT EVEN ONE SCRITPURE TO COUNTER ME?
Erm, altho this bible discussion has turned into a sarcasm thread, its still a scritpure based argument.
You are clearly, LAZY, ARROGANT, DECEPTIVE, AND TOO FREE. At least I am here to discuss a topic. what are you here for.
what are you really here for. If you realise that the scripture is too difficult for you ask your pastor to write in here and discuss. If not ask the bishop. If not the pope.
yawn ~
jesus was never qualified to be messiah, but Yeshua is qualified to be Mashiach.
Originally posted by breytonhartge:jesus was never qualified to be messiah, but Yeshua is qualified to be Mashiach.
hey brey.... this new bloke... a member of your brethren???
having said that, brey.... ho say boh? seng lee do big big?
i would like your comment on this knowmypower bloke....