Why christainity is a real religion
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Originally posted by Short Ninja:
When in doubt always seek answers from a pastor,minister,priest or even a pope I am sure they all have some sort of answers not necessary the same answers but sufficient enough until another problem pops up.Same with the other religions which is designed to help people cope with community and social issues.
Not true. I once asked a pastor whether all who don't believe in Christ will go hell after death. Guess what his reply was. He replied "frankly speaking, I do not know". -
Originally posted by Fantagf:
Not true. I once asked a pastor whether all who don't believe in Christ will go hell after death. Guess what his reply was. He replied "frankly speaking, I do not know".Yes, there will always be different answers coming out of different people and the answer given by that pastor is prolly the most reasonable of them all.As for the bible,I believe it is the oldest history book known to man and quite fascination to study the contents of the book but its interpretation could also manipulated by people.
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Originally posted by Short Ninja:
Yes, there will always be different answers coming out of different people and the answer given by that pastor is prolly the most reasonable of them all.As for the bible,I believe it is the oldest history book known to man and quite fascination to study the contents of the book but its interpretation could also manipulated by people.
bible is not a history book. a history book is a book of recorded history that can be backed up by reliable sources. the bible being backed up by itself does not count as reliable, more like watching tvmedia.
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Originally posted by ThunderFbolt:
bible is not a history book. a history book is a book of recorded history that can be backed up by reliable sources. the bible being backed up by itself does not count as reliable, more like watching tvmedia.
Dont jump the gun so fast.Although no one could really ascertain when those events chronologicaly took place scientists are now collaborating with some of them.One does not have to be christian,muslim or jew to believe that the old testament is indeed a good history book.
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Eventually ,all people need to come to peace with themselves call it God or watever! there are two ways to speed up the process.One is through philosophy and the other through the various religions (whichever suits you fine)
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Originally posted by Short Ninja:
Dont jump the gun so fast.Although no one could really ascertain when those events chronologicaly took place scientists are now collaborating with some of them.One does not have to be christian,muslim or jew to believe that the old testament is indeed a good history book.
http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/science/long.html
my source has just as much reliability as yours. can they both be right?
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Originally posted by ThunderFbolt:
http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/science/long.html
my source has just as much reliability as yours. can they both be right?
Because people believe only what they want to believe so they both could be right>LOL
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Originally posted by Short Ninja:
Because people believe only what they want to believe so they both could be right>LOL
But in real truth, there can only one right choice, so which is it? -
Originally posted by Herzog_Zwei:
But in real truth, there can only one right choice, so which is it?
How about we wait for a staunch Christian to declare, 'Only GOD is the Truth!'>
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Originally posted by Rooney9:
sorry the laws of god only apply to your faith and the people worshipping your god. I am subjected to the laws of the world I am living in. for me, the truth is universal to all and not belong to some groups or faiths. the bible story and salvation seemed dogmatic and instilling fear, just like buying insurance is to get peace of mind. if your religion need to instil fear in order for others to believe, then its the wrong approach to adopt I reckon. if its the truth, there is no need to instil fear in others. only dictators used fear on his subjects to maintain his power and control of hie autocratic regime.
on a separate note, have you seen god yet? how does he look like? doe he has a form or a wing?
Well Rooney, you cannot see God. He is so holy that for us in our imperfection to look at him is death. Even Moses was not permitted to see God's face but God revealed his back to him. After that no one could look at Moses' face for some time after.
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Originally posted by Larryteo:
From what I know, the reason as to why Christ died on the cross was to free all mankind from the sacrifice of animals, which does not seem to be working as humans, after sacrificing animals each time, will continue to sin again. Thus, God chose to die on the cross instead in order to cover-up for all the sins of man, Which is why if you read on all christian websites, all of them say that no one needs to fear about breaking the ten commandments, as one only needs to believe in Jesus christ- that alone to go to heaven. But I don't think breaking the ten commandments willingly and knowingly is a good idea...
If you believe in Christ that means you know how much he loves you and you would love him. If you love him, you will try your best (though you fail at times to obey him) therefore you would try to keep the commandments and not break them.
By the way, Christ only gave two commands which summed them all up.
1. Love the Lord your God with all your heart, all your mond and all your soul.
2. Love your neighbour as yourself.
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Hi All,
I am not an expert at the Bible but from memory here are some hints that the Bible is real.
1. The timescale on the account of creation can be scientifically explained by Einstein's special theory of relativity which states that there is no absolute time and elapsed time is dependent on the velocity of one reference frame relative to another. As one speeds up, a ground observer will observe a much significant increased period of time in comparison to the one that is moving near light speed.
Another possibility is that in the beginning, the universe being infintesimally small and dense has a near infinite gravitational field strength. This will warp space time again providing a possible explanation of the timescales in Genesis.
Google "Special Theory of Relativity" - it makes for a good and interesting read regardless. If you are more involved you can check out "General Theory of Relativity" as well.
2. The historical periods mentioned in the Bible have all been verified archaelogically. It has also further been proven that a catastrophic flood as mentioned in the Bible did happen - Check out "Was there really a great flood" in How Stuff Works. Also google "Great Flood and Noah's Ark" to read more articles. In addition check out all the other wars and empires mentioned in the Bible and you find that they are all backed by archaelogical evidence.
3. If you want to go further and read the Bible (Try the NIV study Bible which provides loads of foot notes explaining each verse in the Bible and references any archaelogical findings) in greater detail you will realise that all the prophecies regarding Israel (Jews) have not failed to occur in History. It is clearly mentioned that they will be severely punished becaused of their disobedience to the Lord and this has played out even to modern History (i.e. the Holocaust). Even today anti-Semitism is still very strong in many parts of the world.
4. Somewhere in Isaiah, mention is given to the "Circle of the World" indicating knowledge that the world was indeed round. This was written approx 600 BC way before Christopher Columbus sailed the world and many still believe in a flat planet.
5. Everything written in the Old Testament with regards to the prophecies regarding the Christ played out perfectly and coherently in the life of Jesus. The existence and life of Jesus is well documented even by secular historians. Again Google it up for more details.
6. The resurrection cannot be refuted even by modern day secular scholars. While there is much controversy regarding the face imaged on Jesus's burial cloth (the Shroud of Turin) there is nothing to refute his resurrection. There are no valid claims as to the remains of Christ ever being found. Again Google "Resurrection of Christ Evidence" to read all the theories pointing to its validity.
7. The apostles who wrote about the Christ all faced persecution and death for their teachings yet they persisted confident in the knowledge of their after life. If they had not seen the risen Christ what then would give them such confidence. Remember they face real world persecution and held firm even in the face of their executions. Also, Paul being a staunch anti-Christian became one of the apostles overnight. What would drive hime to do so. Remember he was responsible for persecuting a lot of Christians of that time.
8. There is a DVD called "Exodus Decoded" which explains and proofs all the events mentioned in Exodus (The Ten Plagues and the parting of the Sea) scientifically. This documentary was the result of research of secular scientists.
9. According to Chaos theory, all things will degrade from an ordered fashion to a chaotic fashion naturally. If there was no creator, we would not see the order we see in the uUniverse today. And statistically, the chance of everything turning out in a random fashion to what it is today without intervention is practically nought. For those who believe in randomness, it is equivalent to leaving a pile of bricks on a site and expecting to see a house come up all by itself without any intervention. Not to say that this is impossible if you look at it from a statistical thernmodynamic point of view but ask yourself "How likely"? Would you bet on it.
10. Get your hands on a Bible and try to prove it wrong by research. You will find you will end up proving it right instead. That is my challenge to all the skeptics.
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Also, randomness can only create special shapes/things by a very low degree... like how sometimes clouds look like some objects we see in our everyday lices.. very rare. And about creation, pour a box of lego bricks on the floor. The lego bricks are all stationery, even YOU had to take up the box and pour the bricks out for the bricks to come out. Also, the lego bricks don't even build itself into a castle, use the wind, it will only seperate the bricks. No form of nature can turn the bricks into an assembled and organized fashion but only with the work of intelligence behind it.
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Originally posted by Fortmax777:
Hi All,
I am not an expert at the Bible but from memory here are some hints that the Bible is real.
1. The timescale on the account of creation can be scientifically explained by Einstein's special theory of relativity which states that there is no absolute time and elapsed time is dependent on the velocity of one reference frame relative to another. As one speeds up, a ground observer will observe a much significant increased period of time in comparison to the one that is moving near light speed.
Another possibility is that in the beginning, the universe being infintesimally small and dense has a near infinite gravitational field strength. This will warp space time again providing a possible explanation of the timescales in Genesis.
Google "Special Theory of Relativity" - it makes for a good and interesting read regardless. If you are more involved you can check out "General Theory of Relativity" as well.
2. The historical periods mentioned in the Bible have all been verified archaelogically. It has also further been proven that a catastrophic flood as mentioned in the Bible did happen - Check out "Was there really a great flood" in How Stuff Works. Also google "Great Flood and Noah's Ark" to read more articles. In addition check out all the other wars and empires mentioned in the Bible and you find that they are all backed by archaelogical evidence.
Ooo... long post... okay, let me try...
1. regardless of whether days in 1st chapter of Genesis refer to actual 24 hours or millions of years, the time line is still wrong. The Genesis 1 creation account conflicts with the order of events that are known to science. In Genesis, the earth is created before light and stars, birds and whales before reptiles and insects, and flowering plants before any animals. The order of events known from science is just the opposite. (1:1-2:3) God creates light and separates light from darkness, and day from night, on the first day. Yet he didn't make the light producing objects (the sun and the stars) until the fourth day (1:14-19). Not to mention by the 2nd or 3rd day the time line should already be 24 hours to a day, since that was when God supposed already created the Earth.
2. A temporary flood on Earth is possible. A flood lasting 150+ days covering the highest mountains of the highest peaks is bullshit. There isn't enough water on Earth to cover up to the height of Bukit Timah Hill.
Also, isn't it strange that in Chap 1 he kept saying everything was good, and in Chap 6-7 he said everything was fucked up?
Noah sent out a dove to see if the waters have gone down. The dove returned with an olive branch. Wouldn't all the olive trees be dead being under water for 150+ days?
And... I remember my grandmum telling me that during every eclipse, one has to pick up pots and pans and bang away as loud as possible to scare away the dog of Er Lang Shen, who was eating the moon. And everytime up till today the moon survives! Does that signify the existance of Er Lang Shen's dog?
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Originally posted by Fortmax777:
3. If you want to go further and read the Bible (Try the NIV study Bible which provides loads of foot notes explaining each verse in the Bible and references any archaelogical findings) in greater detail you will realise that all the prophecies regarding Israel (Jews) have not failed to occur in History. It is clearly mentioned that they will be severely punished becaused of their disobedience to the Lord and this has played out even to modern History (i.e. the Holocaust). Even today anti-Semitism is still very strong in many parts of the world.
4. Somewhere in Isaiah, mention is given to the "Circle of the World" indicating knowledge that the world was indeed round. This was written approx 600 BC way before Christopher Columbus sailed the world and many still believe in a flat planet.
5. Everything written in the Old Testament with regards to the prophecies regarding the Christ played out perfectly and coherently in the life of Jesus. The existence and life of Jesus is well documented even by secular historians. Again Google it up for more details.
6. The resurrection cannot be refuted even by modern day secular scholars. While there is much controversy regarding the face imaged on Jesus's burial cloth (the Shroud of Turin) there is nothing to refute his resurrection. There are no valid claims as to the remains of Christ ever being found. Again Google "Resurrection of Christ Evidence" to read all the theories pointing to its validity.
3. No idea of this one, since I haven't quite finished reading the bible yet. Don't suppose you could point me a link? =P
4. the Bible has said in separate occasions that the Earth is flat and/or round. Still doesn't explain the existence of God. Anyway, the shape of the earth may already have been known in Isaiah's time. Ancient astronomers could determine that the earth was round by observing its circular shadow move across the moon during lunar eclipses. There is some suggestion that the Egyptians knew of the earth's spherical size and shape around 2550 B.C. (more than a thousand years before Moses). The Greek philosopher Pythagoras, who was born in 532 B.C., defended the spherical theory on the basis of observations he had made of the shape of the sun and moon. If this information was known by educated Greeks and Egyptians during biblical times, its use by Isaiah is nothing special.
5. Not quite. There must be a reason why Judaism still exists. And the size of Christianity and Islam today is not an indication that Jesus must be the Messiah due to the number of people following the ideas, as the large number today is more of conquests the respective missionaries did.
6. The resurrection of Jesus is unknown, as if someone were to have stolen his body, it is also unlikely for them to mark his final resting place, hence giving your conclusion of the unfound remains of JC. And Christianity also isn't the only religion that has some dude resurrecting. For example:
Horus c. 3000 BCE
Osiris c. 3000 BCE
Attis of Phrygia c.1400 BCE
Krishna c. 1400 BCE (possibly as early as 5771 BCE)
Mithra of Persia c. 600 BCE
Dionysus c. 186 BCE -
Originally posted by Fortmax777:
8. There is a DVD called "Exodus Decoded" which explains and proofs all the events mentioned in Exodus (The Ten Plagues and the parting of the Sea) scientifically. This documentary was the result of research of secular scientists.
10. Get your hands on a Bible and try to prove it wrong by research. You will find you will end up proving it right instead. That is my challenge to all the skeptics.
8. I think I saw a similar one of Discovery channel, where winds blew the waters in the Red Sea away to reveal dry land, and the ten plagues being explained by this:
The pfisteria theory provides one explanation of the first six plagues.
In 1999 an environmental catastrophe happened in the town of New Burn, North Carolina. The residents woke up to find the waters of their river - the Neuse - had turned red. More than a billion fish died. People working near the river found that they were covered in sores.
The cause of this was found to be pollution. The pollution had come from a pig farm further up the river. Millions of gallons of pig-waste had found its way into the river, causing a genetic mutation in a marine micro-organism called pfisteria; turning it from harmless into lethal. The river had been poisoned.
John Marr, an epidemiologist specialising in environmental disasters, believes pollution in ancient Egypt could have caused the first six plagues. Pfisteria, or something like it, caused the fish to die, thus turning the river red; the pollution would have driven the frogs onto the land, on land the frogs would die, causing an explosion of flies and lice. The flies could then have transmitted viral diseases to livestock, killing them.
And on May 17th 1980, in the North West of America, Mount St Helens volcano erupted, killing everything within 20 miles. Ash columns were ejected into the atmosphere, circling the globe within two weeks and causing complete darkness over a radius of 100 miles.
Could a natural phenomenon on this scale have triggered the plagues?
John Marr, epidemiologist, thinks that fall-out of volcanic ash could have produced a toxic bloom of algae in the River Nile; thus setting off a chain of events similar to those produced by pfisteria.
The thing is, doesn't this just show that no divine intervention is required for these events to occur? And if these events do signify the presence of a god, who was God trying to kill off this time in the above 2 cases?
10. It's slow, but hold on. My typing isn't very good. =P
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Originally posted by ThunderFbolt:
Ooo... long post... okay, let me try...
1. regardless of whether days in 1st chapter of Genesis refer to actual 24 hours or millions of years, the time line is still wrong. The Genesis 1 creation account conflicts with the order of events that are known to science. In Genesis, the earth is created before light and stars, birds and whales before reptiles and insects, and flowering plants before any animals. The order of events known from science is just the opposite. (1:1-2:3) God creates light and separates light from darkness, and day from night, on the first day. Yet he didn't make the light producing objects (the sun and the stars) until the fourth day (1:14-19). Not to mention by the 2nd or 3rd day the time line should already be 24 hours to a day, since that was when God supposed already created the Earth.
2. A temporary flood on Earth is possible. A flood lasting 150+ days covering the highest mountains of the highest peaks is bullshit. There isn't enough water on Earth to cover up to the height of Bukit Timah Hill.
Also, isn't it strange that in Chap 1 he kept saying everything was good, and in Chap 6-7 he said everything was fucked up?
Noah sent out a dove to see if the waters have gone down. The dove returned with an olive branch. Wouldn't all the olive trees be dead being under water for 150+ days?
And... I remember my grandmum telling me that during every eclipse, one has to pick up pots and pans and bang away as loud as possible to scare away the dog of Er Lang Shen, who was eating the moon. And everytime up till today the moon survives! Does that signify the existance of Er Lang Shen's dog?
1. If you read 1:1 -2 carefully it does not say that God created the Earth before anything else. It says "In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth . Now the earth was formless and empty. The heavens in this case would refer to the Universe. I think the full explanantion is too long to type here. try the following link for a view on the matter.
http://www.godandscience.org/apologetics/day-age.html#qv1KVv5BTguw
Lots of info there and on other websites like it as well.
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Originally posted by Larryteo:
Also, randomness can only create special shapes/things by a very low degree... like how sometimes clouds look like some objects we see in our everyday lices.. very rare. And about creation, pour a box of lego bricks on the floor. The lego bricks are all stationery, even YOU had to take up the box and pour the bricks out for the bricks to come out. Also, the lego bricks don't even build itself into a castle, use the wind, it will only seperate the bricks. No form of nature can turn the bricks into an assembled and organized fashion but only with the work of intelligence behind it.
This is also mentioned by Fortmax777 at point 9. I can't explain it very well, but Richard Dawkins did in his book "The God Delusion". Can't actually remember what it says, but creating a celestial body is different from getting a ton of airplane parts and expected a Boeing 747. The difference is the least-action principle, as planetoid spherical bodies are that of lowest energy, while the creation of a Rolex is that of higher energy.
I'll use the big bang in this example, seeing how the big bang is accepted in both creationists and... naturalists? Non-creationists? Err... never mind.
The big bang occurred. Mass is produced. Due to gravity produced by the mass, regardless of how insignificant the gravity produced by each piece is, still pulls them together. This continues until a planet is formed. Some don't make it, producing star dust and asteroid belts. Some are forced together too hard, producing stars. Some come together but miss, creating orbits.
As to what caused the big bang, not too sure. It may be an intelligent being, it may be a natural phenomenon. Going to take General Relativity in a few years, so I'll come back and post my article then on my assumptions. However, an intelligent being creating a universe is also not an indication of a Christian God, as it may as likely be Altas or Pang Gu.
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Originally posted by Fortmax777:
1. If you read 1:1 -2 carefully it does not say that God created the Earth before anything else. It says "In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth . Now the earth was formless and empty. The heavens in this case would refer to the Universe. I think the full explanantion is too long to type here. try the following link for a view on the matter.
http://www.godandscience.org/apologetics/day-age.html#qv1KVv5BTguw
Lots of info there and on other websites like it as well.
It's still wrong. The very first thing created from the events of the Big Bang was electromagnetic waves.
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Originally posted by Fortmax777:
7. The apostles who wrote about the Christ all faced persecution and death for their teachings yet they persisted confident in the knowledge of their after life. If they had not seen the risen Christ what then would give them such confidence. Remember they face real world persecution and held firm even in the face of their executions. Also, Paul being a staunch anti-Christian became one of the apostles overnight. What would drive hime to do so. Remember he was responsible for persecuting a lot of Christians of that time.
Persistence in spreading the faith is no indication of the truthfulness of the risen Christ. Mohammed has never seen the risen Christ, yet Islam is the fastest growing religion in the world. Hinduism, Buddhism, Taoism have also existed after such a long time, which, as you may agree, is no indication that their teachings are true either.
I do however, have no idea what Paul/Saul was thinking at that time. But then again, at the time of Mohammed, the city we know as Mecca wanted to kill Mohammed. Yet...? And this is a city as compared to one person, does that mean the teachings of Islam are right?
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Also, the idea that something must be created if it is complex is flawed, just because we see a computer or a rock formation is complex. It is as if we are saying that all red objects are hot just because fire is red, which of course is not the case.
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It's actually POINTLESS to argue about what happened when Earth was made because no one was there to witness it. Just mention archeology and the bible prophecies, okay you two?
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Originally posted by Larryteo:
It's actually POINTLESS to argue about what happened when Earth was made because no one was there to witness it. Just mention archeology and the bible prophecies, okay you two?
we do have astrophysics, so there are people studying the origin of the universe, just like people studying ancient civilisations and ancient soothsayings.
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Whatever. I'm tired of argueing... I'm gonna leave this topic alone now.
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Originally posted by Larryteo:
Whatever. I'm tired of argueing... I'm gonna leave this topic alone now.
It is not an argument, it is a discussion of ideas. If you were passionate about Christ would you not want to understand more of why people are not?