Originally posted by breytonhartge:and I asked you what you thought so....
u have not answered my question or r u avoiding it becos u can't face urself lying to us?
How do u keep the sabbath? as u had claimed.
Originally posted by breytonhartge:I am a believer.
The two quotes I mention do not in any way no matter how tenuous even remotely suggest that purgatory exists. It is not a matter of interpretation, it is a matter of what it says exactly in the bible. The bible says that we are not to add to the word of G_d, but based on that site you sent me to... it seems that the rc church just did. So you go figure.
Is there such a thing as hell? Is there such a thing as going to heaven? Does the bible say we are going to heaven? I do not believe as the rc church does.
Again with my point on faith and works, you miss it entirely. But then, since you seem to know better, pray tell what is the message of the bible?
You still have not given me your definition, which by extrapolation would be the rc's definition of what being unclean means.
Why would I want to delve again into the things that affirm the faith of the rc church?They are not truths as shown in the bible.Your attempts to show these things as truth have been rebutted with my own points that I bring up. I have engaged you in debate, I have engaged you in open discussion, how can this be imposing my views? If like you say this is a discussion, why are you so sensitive? I have just put forward a differing view point to yours. People here can then decide for themselves.
You're a 'believer' and you think that your own personal interpretation of scripture and doctrines are absolutely correct and the Catholic Church, imperfect as it is but started by Jesus Christ himself with currently over a billion members worldwide is complete nonsense? Incredible.
Yes, I'm sure people here can decide for themselves. I've nothing more to say as this is really pointless. May He bless and guide you in your search for truth.
Originally posted by +Sikoyo+:u have not answered my question or r u avoiding it becos u can't face urself lying to us?
How do u keep the sabbath? as u had claimed.
See Sabbath in the old testament of the bible, that is how I keep it.
Exodus 20:10
but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the LORD your G_d. In it you shall do no work: you, nor your son,
nor your daughter, nor your male servant, nor your female servant, nor
your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates.
Originally posted by Servant:You're a 'believer' and you think that your own personal interpretation of scripture and doctrines are absolutely correct and the Catholic Church, imperfect as it is but started by Jesus Christ himself with currently over a billion members worldwide is complete nonsense? Incredible.
Yes, I'm sure people here can decide for themselves. I've nothing more to say as this is really pointless. May He bless and guide you in your search for truth.
Servant, I have gone through the system and I reject it for it does not give me the TRUTH of the word of Yahweh. This is not personal interpretation, there are just as many around the world who also believe in what I believe in. Having a billion members worldwide does not mean anything, they could be a billion people all being led astray. Following your argument, there are more muslims around the world than your so called cc, will you ever say that they are right? I will reiterate again, YESHUA, did not start the rc church, He went to SYNAGOGUE. If Yeshua would have wanted to start a different system, He would have done so in HIS lifetime.
Shalom to you and my Yah's light guide you to the REAL TRUTH of His word.
Originally posted by Miracles&Prophecies:We all could be partly right and wrong with reference to our own church doctrine. Religion itself doesn't save anyone. Christ does. What we make with our faith in Christ will determine God's judgment.
Having the correct knowledge is not much of use if the person doesn't do what he's supposed to do.
So please stop the mentality my church is better or greater than yours. It's quite childish.
that is where you are wrong, its not about church doctrine, its about BIBLICAL doctrine, according to G_d. Not man's interpretation. It was never a my church is better than your church thing... it is about what is right and what is truth. you are right on this point, religion is NEVER going to save anyone.
Originally posted by Miracles&Prophecies:Or do you really think you are a cut above the others? That salvation is deservedly yours by right and by work and by merit?
As for me I am aware I could only be saved through the grace of God.
Since when was salvation by right, work or merit? I think you have missed the point. Please try to refrain from speaking if you have not first understood the entire context of this discussion.
Originally posted by Servant:You're a 'believer' and you think that your own personal interpretation of scripture and doctrines are absolutely correct and the Catholic Church, imperfect as it is but started by Jesus Christ himself with currently over a billion members worldwide is complete nonsense? Incredible.
Yes, I'm sure people here can decide for themselves. I've nothing more to say as this is really pointless. May He bless and guide you in your search for truth.
Jesus did not start the RCC..Emperor Constantine did..RCC falls far away from the simple fishing club Jesus founded..
Originally posted by breytonhartge:See Sabbath in the old testament of the bible, that is how I keep it.
Exodus 20:10
but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the LORD your G_d. In it you shall do no work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your male servant, nor your female servant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates.
In this case...i keep the sabbath too.
Next...how do u keep the feast of Yahweh?
Originally posted by breytonhartge:Servant, I have gone through the system and I reject it for it does not give me the TRUTH of the word of Yahweh. This is not personal interpretation, there are just as many around the world who also believe in what I believe in. Having a billion members worldwide does not mean anything, they could be a billion people all being led astray. Following your argument, there are more muslims around the world than your so called cc, will you ever say that they are right? I will reiterate again, YESHUA, did not start the rc church, He went to SYNAGOGUE. If Yeshua would have wanted to start a different system, He would have done so in HIS lifetime.
Shalom to you and my Yah's light guide you to the REAL TRUTH of His word.
U have gone through the system then how do u know it does not provides the truth of the Word of God? Any evidence to back ur claim? or it's jus ur very own perception?
Originally posted by +Sikoyo+:In this case...i keep the sabbath too.
describe to me how you keep Shabbat? which day is Shabbat? Do you know?
Originally posted by +Sikoyo+:U have gone through the system then how do u know it does not provides the truth of the Word of God? Any evidence to back ur claim? or it's jus ur very own perception?
the system does not teach the truth of Yahweh because it does not teach according to the bible. Ultimately, you decide the walk you want to take, whether it be to find His truth or to believe in man made lies and deception.
I will leave you with this...
Matthew 7:14
Because narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it.
Originally posted by +Sikoyo+:
Next...how do u keep the feast of Yahweh?
why don't you tell me which are the feast of Yahweh and how you keep them?
Originally posted by domonkassyu:Jesus did not start the RCC..Emperor Constantine did..RCC falls far away from the simple fishing club Jesus founded..
This 'simple fishing club', as you call it, laid the foundation of the church as related in the book of Acts and suffered greviously for their beliefs under Roman persecution until Constantine came along.
Constantine did not invent Catholicism, he simply recognised it and let people be Christian legally, thereby ending the persecutions. For 300 years before Constantine, Christians believed in the real presence of Jesus in the Eucharist, honoured Mary, had elaborate ceremonies, prayed for the dead, respected the church hierarchy, baptised babies, recognised Peter as the Rock, built the church upon him with successors and followed a rich tradition of Christianity. That was the Christianity of the early days and that is the Christianity of today in the Catholic Church which still holds these beliefs and practices these sacred rites (Catholic means 'universal'). St Ignatius of Antioch, apostolic priest and bishop, was martyred in Rome in about 110 AD under Emperor Trajan's rule, 200 years before Constantine's reign. It was during the journey to Rome that he wrote his famous letters that contain valuble information about the early church. He was the first to use the term "Catholic" to describe the church.
In the Gospel of Matthew chapter 16, what church do you think Jesus is referring to?
13Now when Jesus came into the district of Caesarea Philippi, He was asking His disciples, "Who do people say that the Son of Man is?" 14And they said, "Some say John the Baptist; and others, Elijah; but still others, Jeremiah, or one of the prophets." 15He said to them, "But who do you say that I am?" 16Simon Peter answered, "You are the Christ, the Son of the living God." 17And Jesus said to him, "Blessed are you, Simon Barjona, because flesh and blood did not reveal this to you, but My Father who is in heaven. 18"I also say to you that you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build My church; and the gates of Hades will not overpower it. 19"I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; and whatever you bind on earth shall have been bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall have been loosed in heaven."
Originally posted by Servant:This 'simple fishing club', as you call it, laid the foundation of the church as related in the book of Acts and suffered greviously for their beliefs under Roman persecution until Constantine came along.
Constantine did not invent Catholicism, he simply recognised it and let people be Christian legally, thereby ending the persecutions. For 300 years before Constantine, Christians believed in the real presence of Jesus in the Eucharist, honoured Mary, had elaborate ceremonies, prayed for the dead, respected the church hierarchy, baptised babies, recognised Peter as the Rock, built the church upon him with successors and followed a rich tradition of Christianity. That was the Christianity of the early days and that is the Christianity of today in the Catholic Church which still holds these beliefs and practices these sacred rites (Catholic means 'universal'). St Ignatius of Antioch, apostolic priest and bishop, was martyred in Rome in about 110 AD under Emperor Trajan's rule, 200 years before Constantine's reign. It was during the journey to Rome that he wrote his famous letters that contain valuble information about the early church. He was the first to use the term "Catholic" to describe the church.
In the Gospel of Matthew chapter 16, what church do you think Jesus is referring to?
13Now when Jesus came into the district of Caesarea Philippi, He was asking His disciples, "Who do people say that the Son of Man is?" 14And they said, "Some say John the Baptist; and others, Elijah; but still others, Jeremiah, or one of the prophets." 15He said to them, "But who do you say that I am?" 16Simon Peter answered, "You are the Christ, the Son of the living God." 17And Jesus said to him, "Blessed are you, Simon Barjona, because flesh and blood did not reveal this to you, but My Father who is in heaven. 18"I also say to you that you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build My church; and the gates of Hades will not overpower it. 19"I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; and whatever you bind on earth shall have been bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall have been loosed in heaven."
yes the fishing club was to be the foundation of the temple of Yahweh/Jehovah..early christians...early christians as in the 1st century pure christians putting mary in such exalted position..i cant say for sure..so i cant say much rgd that..infant baptisim is defintitely wrong..as baptism was meant to die away from the old self and live and dedicate a new life to Jehovah through Jesus..after knowing and acknowledging him as sovereign ruler...
constantine wasnt so noble as just to allow and recognize the church of christians..he just wanted to have a better control on jews,greeks and romans...thats why so many paganistic beliefs of the romans were infused into christianity to make it more acceptable to the romans..and have the rabbis change the core doctrine so jews can accept it as it was from the rabbis..
and the verse you so graciously quoted..temple, church doesnt really matter as we knw it simply is a place of worship to the true living God..the father of Jesus..Jehovah/Yahweh..and there we see Jesus saying explicitly...verse 15-17..the relationship of christ and God as seperate entities..i dont expect anyone to agree with me as it has been an age long tradition to fuse them both for almost 2000 years..but the bible doesnt lie..and people have eyes to see for their own..
Originally posted by breytonhartge:describe to me how you keep Shabbat? which day is Shabbat? Do you know?
jus as u had described...and u hav not answered my question yet b4 u pose ur question?
Originally posted by breytonhartge:the system does not teach the truth of Yahweh because it does not teach according to the bible. Ultimately, you decide the walk you want to take, whether it be to find His truth or to believe in man made lies and deception.
I will leave you with this...
Matthew 7:14
Because narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it.
u hav not answered my question again...how do u know & from where u find out dat the system does not teach the truth?
Originally posted by breytonhartge:why don't you tell me which are the feast of Yahweh and how you keep them?
i never mention i kept the feast of Yahweh. it is u who first proclaimed so do u think its only fair dat u justify ur claim?
Originally posted by +Sikoyo+:jus as u had described...and u hav not answered my question yet b4 u pose ur question?
so then when is Shabbat?
which feast do you want to know how to keep? do you want to know for argument sake or do you want to know so that you can please Him?
Originally posted by +Sikoyo+:u hav not answered my question again...how do u know & from where u find out dat the system does not teach the truth?
it is very simple, compare the system with what is written in the bible...easy question, do you eat prawns? do you eat pork?
Originally posted by breytonhartge:so then when is Shabbat?
which feast do you want to know how to keep? do you want to know for argument sake or do you want to know so that you can please Him?
The sabbath is on the 7th day of the week...and we do not need to intentionally please God...dat will make us hypocrites...there's no such need as He sees our hearts. how do u keep the feast of Yahweh as of today?
Originally posted by breytonhartge:it is very simple, compare the system with what is written in the bible...easy question, do you eat prawns? do you eat pork?
Deuteronomy 14:6-10
You may eat any animal that has a divided & cloven hoof and that is a ruminant. Of those however you may not eat the following: the camel, the hare and the hyrax, which are ruminant but have no cloven hoof; you must hold them unclean. So also are the pig, which though has a cloven hoof is not ruminant; you must hold it unclean.
Of all that lives in water you may eat the following: whatever has fins and scales may be eaten. But you must not eat anything that has not fins and scales; you must hold it unclean.
Originally posted by +Sikoyo+:Deuteronomy 14:6-10
You may eat any animal that has a divided & cloven hoof and that is a ruminant. Of those however you may not eat the following: the camel, the hare and the hyrax, which are ruminant but have no cloven hoof; you must hold them unclean. So also are the pig, which though has a cloven hoof is not ruminant; you must hold it unclean.
Of all that lives in water you may eat the following: whatever has fins and scales may be eaten. But you must not eat anything that has not fins and scales; you must hold it unclean.
so now who is the one not answering questions...?
Originally posted by +Sikoyo+:The sabbath is on the 7th day of the week...and we do not need to intentionally please God...dat will make us hypocrites...there's no such need as He sees our hearts. how do u keep the feast of Yahweh as of today?
what is the fourth commandment?Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.
We are commanded to KEEP it, so do you? When is the seventh day? ON which day is it?