Why is God against abortion?
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Originally posted by Broderick Elisha:
He gave men free choice and man fail. Once again don't blame God for man failure. If I give you all the building in the world but only one you shall not touch, if you touch it you fail, isn't there a mild possiblity of failure.
That is fair enough for me man haha=D
without going into biblical references, technically this line of reasoning fails
god creates man in his image, god gives man free choice, if man fails, its not god's fault
i see every effort from christian to absolve god from responsibility when there is a clear cause and effect from his action, ie the creation of man, the design of man to have choice
adding to the belief that god is omnipotent, omnipresent, this doesnt make sense at all
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Originally posted by Herzog_Zwei:
Did God design man with no choice? yes. Did god create failures? yes.this makes sense, judging from statements from various believers
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your son can grow up to be a successful businessman but he can also grow up to be a notorious criminal. if he decides to choose the latter does that really mean that you fail as a father? an adult 18 years of age can already make major decisions in his life, he becomes responsible for any of his actions, his parents does not need to be present in a court hearing.
God gives us free will, this is something God cannot violate. why give us free will then? we have a choice to obey or disobey Him. Imagine there is a pill that can make any person who eats it loves you forever, you give that to a girl you like and she takes it. And then you realise she only loves you because of that pill, she don't truly love you, her love seems... robotic.
God wants us to love Him. yet He had given us that choice. so if choose to disobey Him, we have only ourselves to blame for our sins.
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Originally posted by xalkyrie:
your son can grow up to be a successful businessman but he can also grow up to be a notorious criminal. if he decides to choose the latter does that really mean that you fail as a father? an adult 18 years of age can already make major decisions in his life, he becomes responsible for any of his actions, his parents does not need to be present in a court hearing.
God gives us free will, this is something God cannot violate. why give us free will then? we have a choice to obey or disobey Him. Imagine there is a pill that can make any person who eats it loves you forever, you give that to a girl you like and she takes it. And then you realise she only loves you because of that pill, she don't truly love you, her love seems... robotic.
God wants us to love Him. yet He had given us that choice. so if choose to disobey Him, we have only ourselves to blame for our sins.
as if you kid grew up in a lab and apply the economic principle of ceteris paribus, sheesh
you do intervene in one way or another in his childhood education and moral upbringing, even till adulthood u do interact in some way with your kid, giving advice or discuss with him his marriage, career etc and therefore, you do have some part to be responsible, although not 100% because you dont have capability to intervene fully
compared that to a god who is omnipotent, who created you in his image and has every cability to intervene, gave you free choice but the choice of one is to suffer eternal hell and damnation
if god do exist, in court of law, the judges would be more prepared to call god to the stand than parents
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We could argue this and come up with many many questions why, but while we are doing this,
we are dangeling over a lake of fire, I say make the best choice you can,
also, Jesus came down as a man, to walk in our shoes, he didnt have to chose the life he had, born in a stable with no money and died on the cross to save us and to proclaim that God loves us and so so much wants us saved, that he layed down his own life, he could have easily stoped the crucifixtion and walked away to Heaven and not even cared, but he didnt, to prove just that,
he loves us.
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Originally posted by sweetcaroline:
We could argue this and come up with many many questions why, but while we are doing this,
we are dangeling over a lake of fire, I say make the best choice you can,
also, Jesus came down as a man, to walk in our shoes, he didnt have to chose the life he had, born in a stable with no money and died on the cross to save us and to proclaim that God loves us and so so much wants us saved, that he layed down his own life, he could have easily stoped the crucifixtion and walked away to Heaven and not even cared, but he didnt, to prove just that,
he loves us.
well sounds right for the first point
but do bear in mind jesus comes to earth in a manner others dont get a chance at
a. he is sent by god
b. he does not bear the original sin
c. he has power unlike other humans, turn water into wine, cure the lepers
d. he can resurrect from death
i would say, few spiritual figures in history serve as a better example than jesus, given the limitations they have, like mother teresa and pope john paul II
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Originally posted by laurence82:
well sounds right for the first point
but do bear in mind jesus comes to earth in a manner others dont get a chance at
a. he is sent by god
b. he does not bear the original sin
c. he has power unlike other humans, turn water into wine, cure the lepers
d. he can resurrect from death
i would say, few spiritual figures in history serve as a better example than jesus, given the limitations they have, like mother teresa and pope john paul II
Lol, there is one thing mother teresa and pope john paul did not do and could not do. Jesus die for our sins, and that is what matter. What do you think give mother teresa the push to help the needy? It is written that Jesus is only one man, we[many] can do greater works[not include die for sin]. Smith Wiggleworth rise more dead people then Jesus. He cannot do it alone, he need Jesus.
Oh the cross, Jesus cry my God my God why have you forsaken me, so that we can cry my father my father thank your for blessing me. He is made poor for our sake, so that we can be rich. By the strips he bore, we are made whole, by the crown on thorns on his temple we recieve peace. God's blood have redeeming quility. Thats why it is call the amazing grace.
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Originally posted by laurence82:
without going into biblical references, technically this line of reasoning fails
god creates man in his image, god gives man free choice, if man fails, its not god's fault
i see every effort from christian to absolve god from responsibility when there is a clear cause and effect from his action, ie the creation of man, the design of man to have choice
adding to the belief that god is omnipotent, omnipresent, this doesnt make sense at all
Giving man a free choice = putting the tree of good and evil in the garden.
what are you going to say next? God did not create the world we actually evolve from a retarded monkey fish [quoting from southpark FTW which quote from darwin].
If God being omnipotent does not make sense, 2 hydrogen molecules being omnipotent makes sense to you right?
If God being omnipresent does not makes sense, explian Terry Mize or Smith Wigglewoth or Rony Tan.
If God being self existing does not make sense, 2 hydrogen molecules being self existing makes sense to you right.
When a princess kiss a frog and it turns into a prince, it call fairytale.
When 2 hyrdrogen molecule kiss and create the entire world, we call it science.
If I'm a child and i listen to both of this, i will go with science = fairy tale.
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Originally posted by Broderick Elisha:
Lol, there is one thing mother teresa and pope john paul did not do and could not do. Jesus die for our sins, and that is what matter. What do you think give mother teresa the push to help the needy? It is written that Jesus is only one man, we[many] can do greater works[not include die for sin]. Smith Wiggleworth rise more dead people then Jesus. He cannot do it alone, he need Jesus.
Oh the cross, Jesus cry my God my God why have you forsaken me, so that we can cry my father my father thank your for blessing me. He is made poor for our sake, so that we can be rich. By the strips he bore, we are made whole, by the crown on thorns on his temple we recieve peace. God's blood have redeeming quility. Thats why it is call the amazing grace.
Thats where you dont make sense. Between someone who "died for our sins" and someone who helped the needy, I'll choose the latter. I am speaking of Mother Teresa in christian context, but in reality, anyone can do it, jesus or no jesus.
It also doesnt relate to what caroline says about god showing the world we can be like jesus and about choices. If god send a laurence82 and show that we are able to make choices just like him, i'll do it, but not someone with superpowers. Its like telling a disabled guy to run as fast as a national sprinter.
One thing i realise from christianity discussion is point by point it might make sense, but it doesnt reconcile. Everyone is so way off
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Originally posted by laurence82:
as if you kid grew up in a lab and apply the economic principle of ceteris paribus, sheesh
you do intervene in one way or another in his childhood education and moral upbringing, even till adulthood u do interact in some way with your kid, giving advice or discuss with him his marriage, career etc and therefore, you do have some part to be responsible, although not 100% because you dont have capability to intervene fully
compared that to a god who is omnipotent, who created you in his image and has every cability to intervene, gave you free choice but the choice of one is to suffer eternal hell and damnation
if god do exist, in court of law, the judges would be more prepared to call god to the stand than parents
You do agree that the child may fail once right?Maybe lie to you or something of that genre? Let's say you have a apple at home, you tell your child not to eat it, if he eat it he cannot stay with you anymore. And when he does eat it, and you just ingore the fact that he does and allow him to stay with you. Does that make you a liar? God cannot lie, lying is a sin.
God's middle name is just, He canot just ingore the fact that adam sin. God cannot ingore your sins, they are all punish on the body of Jesus [this is the love of God].
At the cross, God's justice and God's love kissed.
If the court of law, the judge can just sumon God for a hearing, does it make the judge superior to God?
God don't have to answer for man's sin, man fall, man fault.
Similarly its not your fault if your child ate the apple, your child fall, your child's fault.
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Originally posted by Broderick Elisha:
Giving man a free choice = putting the tree of good and evil in the garden.
what are you going to say next? God did not create the world we actually evolve from a retarded monkey fish [quoting from southpark FTW which quote from darwin].
If God being omnipotent does not make sense, 2 hydrogen molecules being omnipotent makes sense to you right?
If God being omnipresent does not makes sense, explian Terry Mize or Smith Wigglewoth or Rony Tan.
If God being self existing does not make sense, 2 hydrogen molecules being self existing makes sense to you right.
When a princess kiss a frog and it turns into a prince, it call fairytale.
When 2 hyrdrogen molecule kiss and create the entire world, we call it science.
If I'm a child and i listen to both of this, i will go with science = fairy tale.
your points are null and void, we are not discussing on existence of god, creation vs evolution
we are talking about an omnipotent being who did and can do heck lots of things but is absolved from all responsibility
the worse thing is trying to compare god to human parents
from the chain of discussion, i dont know now if god is now human or omnipotent being
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Originally posted by Broderick Elisha:
You do agree that the child may fail once right?Maybe lie to you or something of that genre? Let's say you have a apple at home, you tell your child not to eat it, if he eat it he cannot stay with you anymore. And when he does eat it, and you just ingore the fact that he does and allow him to stay with you. Does that make you a liar? God cannot lie, lying is a sin.
God's middle name is just, He canot just ingore the fact that adam sin. God cannot ingore your sins, they are all punish on the body of Jesus [this is the love of God].
At the cross, God's justice and God's love kissed.
If the court of law, the judge can just sumon God for a hearing, does it make the judge superior to God?
God don't have to answer for man's sin, man fall, man fault.
Similarly its not your fault if your child ate the apple, your child fall, your child's fault.
This is not an argument, you a re just repeating what xalkryie said which i rebutted earlier
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Originally posted by laurence82:
Thats where you dont make sense. Between someone who "died for our sins" and someone who helped the needy, I'll choose the latter. I am speaking of Mother Teresa in christian context, but in reality, anyone can do it, jesus or no jesus.
It also doesnt relate to what caroline says about god showing the world we can be like jesus and about choices. If god send a laurence82 and show that we are able to make choices just like him, i'll do it, but not someone with superpowers. Its like telling a disabled guy to run as fast as a national sprinter.
One thing i realise from christianity discussion is point by point it might make sense, but it doesnt reconcile. Everyone is so way off
Any idea what is the wages of sins? Do you know what is the blessing of the righteous? A small portion can be found in in deut 28.
Between someone who "die for our sins" and someone who helped the needy, I'll choose the former.
IF God send laurence82 to tell the world that we can make choices, and it is God's fault that man fall. I for one will not believe laurence82
Or maybe if God send Broderick Elisha to tell laurence82 the truth about Him and to expolit the devil's foolishness that is bound in his heart, I'll do it.
Christianity discussion makes sense when there is no foolishness in the speaker and the hearer heart.
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Originally posted by laurence82:
your points are null and void, we are not discussing on existence of god, creation vs evolution
we are talking about an omnipotent being who did and can do heck lots of things but is absolved from all responsibility
the worse thing is trying to compare god to human parents
from the chain of discussion, i dont know now if god is now human or omnipotent being
Sorry about going off topic, What do you want God to do? since he can do heck lots of things. One option is to destory adam and eve and create a new couple hoping they don't abuse their free choice. But if God destory adam and eve, where is the LOVE?
Sin is like HIV [in a superior form], there is a cure, the cure is death. God sended the cure.
"if god do exist, in court of law, the judges would be more prepared to call god to the stand than parents"
well thats what you did rofl=D
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Originally posted by Broderick Elisha:
Any idea what is the wages of sins? Do you know what is the blessing of the righteous? A small portion can be found in in deut 28.
Between someone who "die for our sins" and someone who helped the needy, I'll choose the former.
IF God send laurence82 to tell the world that we can make choices, and it is God's fault that man fall. I for one will not believe laurence82
Or maybe if God send Broderick Elisha to tell laurence82 the truth about Him and to expolit the devil's foolishness that is bound in his heart, I'll do it.
Christianity discussion makes sense when there is no foolishness in the speaker and the hearer heart.
replace laurence82 with jesus in ur statement and you get the same thing, if man fall, god's fault
yeap, i agree with you
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Originally posted by laurence82:
replace laurence82 with jesus in ur statement and you get the same thing, if man fall, god's fault
yeap, i agree with you
yeahh you reach a new level of foolishness, I always thought you know what you are talking about. Jesus come to die for our sin, not to do what laurence82 thinks he is doing.Hey if you want to be a God hater, you better know you facts alright haha=D
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Originally posted by laurence82:
This is not an argument, you a re just repeating what xalkryie said which i rebutted earlier
I'm rebutting what you rebutted, read again=D
thanks for helping me reach 20+post now I can reply faster.
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Originally posted by Broderick Elisha:
Sorry about going off topic, What do you want God to do? since he can do heck lots of things. One option is to destory adam and eve and create a new couple hoping they don't abuse their free choice. But if God destory adam and eve, where is the LOVE?
Sin is like HIV [in a superior form], there is a cure, the cure is death. God sended the cure.
"if god do exist, in court of law, the judges would be more prepared to call god to the stand than parents"
well thats what you did rofl=D
out of points too, its what he can do but i dont like the idea of being absolved of responsibility
you beginning to agree with me that he can do lots of things, hence he is not absolved of responsibility, since u noted he can do other stuff
if he cant stop adam and eve from sinning, gee, i got to look for a more superior god
death? commit mass suicides if you want to
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Originally posted by laurence82:
out of points too, its what he can do but i dont like the idea of being absolved of responsibility
you beginning to agree with me that he can do lots of things, hence he is not absolved of responsibility, since u noted he can do other stuff
if he cant stop adam and eve from sinning, gee, i got to look for a more superior god
death? commit mass suicides if you want to
He can't stop adam and eve from sinning because they already sin =.=
God cannot destory adam and eve or press the restart button of the world because He cannot bear to, He love adam and eve.
He is not absolving from responsibility, He gave man free choice.
Can you get the fact that he gave man free choice first?
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Originally posted by Broderick Elisha:
He can't stop adam and eve from sinning because they already sin =.=
God cannot destory adam and eve or press the restart button of the world because He cannot bear to, He love adam and eve.
He is not absolving from responsibility, He gave man free choice.
Can you get the fact that he gave man free choice first?
I thought God exist first then adam and eve?
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Originally posted by Broderick Elisha:
yeahh you reach a new level of foolishness, I always thought you know what you are talking about. Jesus come to die for our sin, not to do what laurence82 thinks he is doing.Hey if you want to be a God hater, you better know you facts alright haha=D
what facts? flaming me is not showing me facts, i rebutted you, hence you should accord me the same responsefor one thing, you dont even quote bible so i assume whatever you said doesnt hold water?
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Originally posted by Broderick Elisha:
I'm rebutting what you rebutted, read again=D
thanks for helping me reach 20+post now I can reply faster.
not really
you are repeating xalkryie points on parents being absolved from responsibility
for one thing, i dont know why you put god and man on equal footing
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Originally posted by Broderick Elisha:
He can't stop adam and eve from sinning because they already sin =.=
God cannot destory adam and eve or press the restart button of the world because He cannot bear to, He love adam and eve.
He is not absolving from responsibility, He gave man free choice.
Can you get the fact that he gave man free choice first?
i can get the fact that free choice is a cause of his action and decision, hence why the denial of responsibility?
do you ever think court of law will let a board of directors get away with mistake they made?
if he cant stop, i guess he is not omnipotent, or rather, he has 99% of the power perhaps, i need to look for stronger god then
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Originally posted by laurence82:
what facts? flaming me is not showing me facts, i rebutted you, hence you should accord me the same responsefor one thing, you dont even quote bible so i assume whatever you said doesnt hold water?
Fact that Jesus die for our sin. the one that you ingore in the previous post on "puting Jesus instead of laurence82."
dying for our sin, 1cor15:1
you want more? go google.
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Originally posted by laurence82:
not really
you are repeating xalkryie points on parents being absolved from responsibility
for one thing, i dont know why you put god and man on equal footing
you put God and man on equal footing so i need to go down to your level? my agrument is that which is for a choice not many choice unlike xalkryie. please read again.