Show me the true Christianity!
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Originally posted by Herzog_Zwei:
Please explain to me about Prophet Ibrahim being the forefather to the Chinese race. Chinese do not believe in the laws as taught by Ibrahim but Chinese are the descendants of the Dragon.Abraham is not the forefather of the Chinese race. Different races traces their roots from different forefathers. When Abraham was born, There are already Chinese and China. You do know that there are millions of Muslims in China right?
I do not know of this 'descendant of the Dragon' but i believe it is more of a culture things coz Chinese generally places most focus on praying to their ancestors than God.
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Originally posted by hamidisaidi:
Abraham is not the forefather of the Chinese race. Different races traces their roots from different forefathers. When Abraham was born, There are already Chinese and China. You do know that there are millions of Muslims in China right?
I do not know of this 'descendant of the Dragon' but i believe it is more of a culture things coz Chinese generally places most focus on praying to their ancestors than God.
???é¾™çš„ä¼ äººï¼šdescendants of the dragon. It is not a culture thing but a social-religious thing. -
double post
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Originally posted by Herzog_Zwei:
IC....my bad. anyway, thats one of the beauties of God's plan..to have different cultures and races in this world so that we can learn from one another.
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I heard the bible is born because everyone around the world wrote it. And is exactly the same. Izzit real or just bullshits??
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Originally posted by Unknown A:
I heard the bible is born because everyone around the world wrote it. And is exactly the same. Izzit real or just bullshits??
Pretty much bullshit.I'm not too familar with other religions and cultures. But one important difference between the oldest Chinese religion (Taoism) with the Christian/Islam/Judaism is that there's no representation for the ultimate evil and the ultimate good.
Both are the same thing in Taoism, symbolized by the Yin and the Yang. Both must co exist in order for the system(Nature, social order) to function properly. Deities and Emperors are only the caretakers for the system, and could not alter or control how the system works.
Under Taoism, humans are part of the system but under Christianity/Islam/Judaism it is believed God created humans to dominate Nature.
While Taoism as a religion is waning in influence, Taoism as a personal philosophy is quite dominant in the Chinese culture.
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Originally posted by Unknown A:
I heard the bible is born because everyone around the world wrote it. And is exactly the same. Izzit real or just bullshits??
this is the uniqueness of the bible. there were over 40 authors who wrote the scriptures in the bible. they came from different walks of life. there were prophets, kings to fishermen. and not only that, they also came from different era spanning more 1500 years. yet every book in the bible is consistent. because all scriptures are inspired by God.
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Originally posted by xalkyrie:
the only way to verify and confirm a scripture is indeed word of God isthat it should be free from errors and inconsistenciesthis is the uniqueness of the bible. there were over 40 authors who wrote the scriptures in the bible. they came from different walks of life. there were prophets, kings to fishermen. and not only that, they also came from different era spanning more 1500 years. yet every book in the bible is consistent. because all scriptures are inspired by God.
- 40 different authors who are not born during Jesus time = unreliable sources
- Authors from different walks of life =different versions
- Different era spanning 1500yrs = again not born during Jesus times thus unreliable
- Every Bible is consistent - not true...there are different versions that if you study each and every one closely, there are some changes in the wordings and accounts of the same events
- Inspired by God .....just an assumption coz there are different version (God telling different versions of same event?), Bible according to (different authors) and not Bible according to Jesus etc (thus not word of God but word of author)
- And there a lot of new religions who's leader claims he is inspired by God
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I can write a book now referring to the Bible as my guide, change a few things inside and call it the Ultimate Testament. I bet people will still take it as word of God.
I am not saying that Christians follow blindly their Bible but just to use our common sense (given by god) to analyse. there are good things in the Bible for men to follow but i am sorry to say that if you asked me, i believed in the Injil, the original Bible given to Jesus and not the Bibles we have now written years after Jesus 'died' by people who are not only not his disciples but not even born in his time. Thus i cannot take 100% everything the Bible said as God's word.
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Originally posted by hamidisaidi:
- 40 different authors who are not born during Jesus time = unreliable sources
- Authors from different walks of life =different versions
- Different era spanning 1500yrs = again not born during Jesus times thus unreliable
- Every Bible is consistent - not true...there are different versions that if you study each and every one closely, there are some changes in the wordings and accounts of the same events
- Inspired by God .....just an assumption coz there are different version (God telling different versions of same event?), Bible according to (different authors) and not Bible according to Jesus etc (thus not word of God but word of author)
- And there a lot of new religions who's leader claims he is inspired by God
the people who are looking for contradictions in the bible may say " the bible is full of mistakes!" they reject it completely as being unreliable. however those who trust God have no problem harmonizing the whole bible.
The godly base their confidence on two truths: 1) “all Scripture is given by inspiration of God” (2 Timothy 3:16); and 2) an elementary rule of Scripture is that God has deliberately included seeming contradictions in His Word to “snare” the proud. He has “hidden” things from the “wise and prudent” and “revealed them to babes” (Luke 10:21), purposely choosing foolish things to confound the wise (1 Corinthians 1:27).
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Originally posted by hamidisaidi:
I can write a book now referring to the Bible as my guide, change a few things inside and call it the Ultimate Testament. I bet people will still take it as word of God.
and when you do, please drop me a line.... i will definitely want a copy.... but otherwise, stop making claims about being able to write a book....
Originally posted by hamidisaidi:I am not saying that Christians follow blindly their Bible but just to use our common sense (given by god) to analyse. there are good things in the Bible for men to follow but i am sorry to say that if you asked me, i believed in the Injil, the original Bible given to Jesus and not the Bibles we have now written years after Jesus 'died' by people who are not only not his disciples but not even born in his time. Thus i cannot take 100% everything the Bible said as God's word.
if you believe in the Injil.... that's your prerogative.....
i would think that it is extremely rude to got a muslim forum and criticise....
and the same vice versa.
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Originally posted by xalkyrie:
the people who are looking for contradictions in the bible may say " the bible is full of mistakes!" they reject it completely as being unreliable. however those who trust God have no problem harmonizing the whole bible.
The godly base their confidence on two truths: 1) “all Scripture is given by inspiration of God” (2 Timothy 3:16); and 2) an elementary rule of Scripture is that God has deliberately included seeming contradictions in His Word to “snare” the proud. He has “hidden” things from the “wise and prudent” and “revealed them to babes” (Luke 10:21), purposely choosing foolish things to confound the wise (1 Corinthians 1:27).
Like i said, we are born to think and if i see contradictions between 2 books of similar origin, then it is unreliable. Any sane man will tell u that. You said those who trust God habe no problem harmonizing the whole Bible. I trust God and i analyse my Koran the same way i do with the Bible. And how do you harmonize and make sense when there are contradictions? Just have faith? Then who are we to condemn the newer cults coz they also believe what they preach?
"All scripture given by inspiration of God" How do you know that God says that and not a man? therefore applying this logic, if i say i have a new scripture, can i also say its inpried by God? God deliberately put in contradictions to snare the proud? Doesnt make sense to me at all. .Purposely contradict yourself to make snare the proud? To snare them into what?
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Originally posted by Chin Eng:
and when you do, please drop me a line.... i will definitely want a copy.... but otherwise, stop making claims about being able to write a book....
if you believe in the Injil.... that's your prerogative.....
i would think that it is extremely rude to got a muslim forum and criticise....
and the same vice versa.
Why would i do that? Its such a waste of my time. You asked me to write a book but wouldnt believe it to be God's word but many have written before and you claim its God's word? why the double standards?
Since when am i rude? And when did i criticise? I merely asked us men to analyse and not do things with blind faith jsut because its the norm of people around us.
I just want to have a discussion based on logic and common sense.
If i did offend anybody here, i am deeply sorry. You are also welcome to discuss with me my religion as much as i wanna discuss yours. God gives us brains. He wants us to us it to think right?
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Originally posted by hamidisaidi:
Why would i do that? Its such a waste of my time. You asked me to write a book but wouldnt believe it to be God's word but many have written before and you claim its God's word? why the double standards?
Since when am i rude? And when did i criticise? I merely asked us men to analyse and not do things with blind faith jsut because its the norm of people around us.
I just want to have a discussion based on logic and common sense.
If i did offend anybody here, i am deeply sorry. You are also welcome to discuss with me my religion as much as i wanna discuss yours. God gives us brains. He wants us to us it to think right?
Controversial though. Don't forget that supposedly the Devil tricked Eve and Adam into eating the apple.So technically God may not have even wanted us to have free thoughts.
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Originally posted by Stevenson101:
Controversial though. Don't forget that supposedly the Devil tricked Eve and Adam into eating the apple.So technically God may not have even wanted us to have free thoughts.
God has his plans. He knows the Devil is going to trick Adam and Eve. He has aplan for us to be on this Earth. God give us the power to make choices; we are responsible for the choices we make.
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Originally posted by hamidisaidi:
Like i said, we are born to think and if i see contradictions between 2 books of similar origin, then it is unreliable. Any sane man will tell u that. You said those who trust God habe no problem harmonizing the whole Bible. I trust God and i analyse my Koran the same way i do with the Bible. And how do you harmonize and make sense when there are contradictions? Just have faith? Then who are we to condemn the newer cults coz they also believe what they preach?
"All scripture given by inspiration of God" How do you know that God says that and not a man? therefore applying this logic, if i say i have a new scripture, can i also say its inpried by God? God deliberately put in contradictions to snare the proud? Doesnt make sense to me at all. .Purposely contradict yourself to make snare the proud? To snare them into what?
there are many versions of the bible, all are printed in different languages and modern english just so that people can understand the bible. the contents of the scriptures remains the same. The Dead Sea Scrolls prove that God has preserved the Scriptures.
i can go deeper into the 100% accurate prophecies of the bible to prove this is the Book of the Creator.
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Originally posted by hamidisaidi:
God has his plans. He knows the Devil is going to trick Adam and Eve. He has aplan for us to be on this Earth. God give us the power to make choices; we are responsible for the choices we make.
right. we are ultimately responsible for the choices we make. adam and eve ate from the tree of knowledge of good and evil which God commanded him not to. funny how in the garden of Eden, there is also the tree of life but adam didn't want to eat that.
same goes to this world. many times people wants to go against God. when we can have the choice to eat from the tree of life, the Living Word, Jesus.
I tell you the truth, he who believes has everlasting life. I am the bread of life. Your forefathers ate the manna in the desert, yet they died. But here is the bread that comes down from heaven, which a man may eat and not die. I am the living bread that came down from heaven. If anyone eats of this bread, he will live forever. This bread is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world." John 6:47-51
i boldly quote this passage and trust that people read this not as fools does if you know what i mean.
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Translations changes is fine but not accounts...listed below:
Who incited David to count the fighting men of Israel?
- God did (2 Samuel 24: 1)
- Satan did (I Chronicles 2 1:1)
Who was the father of Joseph, husband of Mary
- Jacob (Matthew 1:16)
- Hell (Luke 3:23)
Would Jesus inherit Davids throne?
- Yes. So said the angel (Luke 1:32)
- No, since he is a descendant of Jehoiakim (see Matthew 1: I 1, I Chronicles 3:16). And Jehoiakim was cursed by God so that none of his descendants can sit upon Davids throne (Jeremiah 36:30)
There are many others. Thse are not mistakes from translations but different accounts from different Bibles.
Do you know what are in the Dead Scrolls? God preserves mummies, fossils etc too. The presevation of the Dead Scrolls does not prove anything. In fact, if you do your research, the Dead Scrolls could have seriously undermine the Church's position on its origins, history and message - in fact the whole foundation of Christianity.
Many fortune-tellers have predicted the future before. It is not impossible. Some claim Nostradamus is accurate. Anyway, for my own sake, can you name me a few verses where its predicted to be accurate?
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Originally posted by hamidisaidi:
Why would i do that? Its such a waste of my time. You asked me to write a book but wouldnt believe it to be God's word but many have written before and you claim its God's word? why the double standards?
Since when am i rude? And when did i criticise? I merely asked us men to analyse and not do things with blind faith jsut because its the norm of people around us.
I just want to have a discussion based on logic and common sense.
If i did offend anybody here, i am deeply sorry. You are also welcome to discuss with me my religion as much as i wanna discuss yours. God gives us brains. He wants us to us it to think right?
i am sure you are not here to "discuss"....
your assumption is that christians do not analyse? hence you are now asking us, men to analyse and not do thing with blind faith.
your assumption is that christians are mere simpletons not having logic and common sense?
and you are only to "discuss".... ookkkay... riighht!
"discussion" or "comparison" between religion and philosophy leads to nowhere in sgforums besides eventually turning any thread into a flame war.
you'd present your "findings", another guy will present his "findings", both of you will disagree with each other... and if both of you are mature enough, both of you will agree to disagree and move on...
unfortunately this scenario does not always exist.... because.... people do not usually come in to "discuss". people come in to prove that their own "theories" are correct.
.... but i shall give you the benefit of doubt... and see where this leads.
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Erh TS... i don't believe in God. but... are you not trying to start a war cause your first post is kinda like... Christian is supreme? Like the... Primo? one and only true religion? Take it easy la uh... I don't want christian chicks come in floods cause if they do uh i doubt i can bang anyone of them too holy later strike by lighting.
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Originally posted by Chin Eng:
i am sure you are not here to "discuss"....
your assumption is that christians do not analyse? hence you are now asking us, men to analyse and not do thing with blind faith.
your assumption is that christians are mere simpletons not having logic and common sense?
and you are only to "discuss".... ookkkay... riighht!
"discussion" or "comparison" between religion and philosophy leads to nowhere in sgforums besides eventually turning any thread into a flame war.
you'd present your "findings", another guy will present his "findings", both of you will disagree with each other... and if both of you are mature enough, both of you will agree to disagree and move on...
unfortunately this scenario does not always exist.... because.... people do not usually come in to "discuss". people come in to prove that their own "theories" are correct.
.... but i shall give you the benefit of doubt... and see where this leads.
Chin Eng,
I admit, my intention here is to discuss but it seems like this have turned to into an endless and pointless 'flaming' topic.
Let me say this for one last time here. We are one; in our path towards God and Heaven. We come from the same origins. As we are all brothers and sisters, i have nothing but love to all those sincere God-fearing Christianss
My sincerest apologies to everybody to whom i have offended.
For that, i have decided to leave before I say something i should not say and aggravate the situation.
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Anyone genuinely wishing to look for answers should not do it in sgforums....
There are tons of resources on the web that discusses such issues. So perhaps the purpose of "discussion" is not too valid, seeing that most forum members are not really well "equipped" to address such issues.
Who incited David to count the fighting men of Israel?
God did (2 Samuel 24: 1)
Satan did (I Chronicles 2 1:1)
http://www.carm.org/bible-difficulties/joshua-esther/who-incited-david-count-fighting-men-israel-god-or-satanWho was the father of Joseph, husband of Mary
Jacob (Matthew 1:16)
Hell (Luke 3:23)
http://www.answerbag.com/q_view/314321Would Jesus inherit Davids throne?
Yes. So said the angel (Luke 1:32)
No, since he is a descendant of Jehoiakim (see Matthew 1: I 1, I Chronicles 3:16). And Jehoiakim was cursed by God so that none of his descendants can sit upon Davids throne(Jeremiah 36:30)Jeremiah 36:30 does not specifically deal with "descendants" but more towards the immediate son of Jehoiakim. This link contain various translation of the same verse, and does not seem that any of the versions talk about "descendents" http://bible.cc/jeremiah/36-30.htm
for whatever convenience it has brought, any translated Bible will have linguistic issues. Christians will continue to proclaim that the Bible is the Word of God, having said that, no Christian will discount any shortcomings of any language due to the idiosyncrisis of the given language.
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Originally posted by Chin Eng:
Anyone genuinely wishing to look for answers should not do it in sgforums....
There are tons of resources on the web that discusses such issues. So perhaps the purpose of "discussion" is not too valid, seeing that most forum members are not really well "equipped" to address such issues.
Who incited David to count the fighting men of Israel?
God did (2 Samuel 24: 1)
Satan did (I Chronicles 2 1:1)
http://www.carm.org/bible-difficulties/joshua-esther/who-incited-david-count-fighting-men-israel-god-or-satanWho was the father of Joseph, husband of Mary
Jacob (Matthew 1:16)
Hell (Luke 3:23)
http://www.answerbag.com/q_view/314321Would Jesus inherit Davids throne?
Yes. So said the angel (Luke 1:32)
No, since he is a descendant of Jehoiakim (see Matthew 1: I 1, I Chronicles 3:16). And Jehoiakim was cursed by God so that none of his descendants can sit upon Davids throne(Jeremiah 36:30)Jeremiah 36:30 does not specifically deal with "descendants" but more towards the immediate son of Jehoiakim. This link contain various translation of the same verse, and does not seem that any of the versions talk about "descendents" http://bible.cc/jeremiah/36-30.htm
for whatever convenience it has brought, any translated Bible will have linguistic issues. Christians will continue to proclaim that the Bible is the Word of God, having said that, no Christian will discount any shortcomings of any language due to the idiosyncrisis of the given language.
You should challenge him. The answer is in the bible. It will reveal who the numbnut is.
Let's begin with his question : " Would Jesus inherit David's throne?".
The answer is yes.
Let's treat the bible as story books, not books inspired by God.
Instead of providing the answers which is in the story books, let's make it less easy for him by asking him questions like:
How did he conclude that Jesus was a descendent of Jehoiakim?
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Originally posted by hamidisaidi:
Why would i do that? Its such a waste of my time. You asked me to write a book but wouldnt believe it to be God's word but many have written before and you claim its God's word? why the double standards?
Since when am i rude? And when did i criticise? I merely asked us men to analyse and not do things with blind faith jsut because its the norm of people around us.
I just want to have a discussion based on logic and common sense.
If i did offend anybody here, i am deeply sorry. You are also welcome to discuss with me my religion as much as i wanna discuss yours. God gives us brains. He wants us to us it to think right?
I would like to discuss with you your religion.
I let you begin. What will you like to discuss?
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