Chinese scholar reveals success of the western world!
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A leading chinese scholar in mainland china concluded his analysis of the success of the western world :
One of the things we were asked to look into was what accounted for the success.infact the pre eminence of the West all over the world.We studied everything from the historical,political, economic, and cultural perspective.At first, it was thought you had more powerful guns than we had.then we thought it was you had the best political system.Next we focused on your economic system.But in the past twenty years, we have realised the heart of your culture is your religion: Christianity.That is why the west is so powerful.the christian moral foundation of social and cultural life was what made the emergence of capitalism and then the successful transition to democratic politics.We don't have any doubts about this
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Any christian and non christian like to comment on the PRC scholar analysis?
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A lot of truth in his analysis.
In the west, most of their billionairs channel some form of wealth to charity. The funding of charity has its root in the Christian value of "giving and sharing". -
Hopefully post christian world will return the roots of her faith and renew our god forsaken world overcoming rampant materialism, terrorism and many heresies of our modern age
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Amen, may god be with us in this darkest of time. I always believe it is important to contribute back to Society
Gary from name1price.com -
as long PAP exists, there will be no caring and sharing.
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Christianity.
That is why the west is so powerful.the christian moral foundation of social and cultural life was what made the emergence of capitalism
Explain the reasoning.
How christian moral foundation developed into capitalism?
and then the successful transition to democratic politics.
Explain the reasoning.
How christian moral foundation developed into capitalism then to democratic poltics.
Explain to me how the process of development works.
We don't have any doubts about this
I have profound doubts about this thesis.
It sounds like bullshit to me.
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Originally posted by Ah Chia:
Explain the reasoning.
How christian moral foundation developed into capitalism?
Explain the reasoning.
How christian moral foundation developed into capitalism then to democratic poltics.
Explain to me how the process of development works.
Dude it does...
Arent pastors the highest paid religious clergy in the world?
Prosperity gospel?
Certain organisation owning Marine Cove?
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But how christian moral foundation developed into capitalism?
How does it work?
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Must give me some sort of reasoning lah, otherwise I consider it bullshit.
When we turn to the developments which took place in economic organization, we approach a subject of great significance.
Here again we can see a sequence of several periods.
There were six of these periods, each with its own typical form of economic organization. At the beginning, in the early Middle Ages, Western Civilization had an economic system which was almost entirely agricultural, organized in self-sufficient manors, with almost no commerce or industry.
To this manorial-agrarian system there was added, after about 1050, a new economic system based on trade in luxury goods of remote origin for the sake of profits.
This we might call commercial capitalism.
It had two periods of expansion, one in the period 1050-1270, and the other in the period 1440-1690.
The typical organization of these two periods was the trading company (in the second we might say the chartered trading company, like the Massachusetts Bay Company, the Hudson's Bay Company, or the various East India companies).
The next period of economic organization was the stage of industrial capitalism, beginning about 1770, and characterized by owner management through the single-proprietorship or the partnership.
The third period we might call financial capitalism. It began about 1850, reached its peak about 1914, and ended about 1932. Its typical forms of economic organization were the limited-liability corporation and the holding company.
It was a period of financial or banker management rather than one of owner management as in the earlier period of industrial capitalism. This period of financial capitalism was followed by a period of monopoly capitalism. In this fourth period, typical forms of economic organization were cartels and trade associations.
This period began to appear about 1890, took over control of the economic system from the bankers about 1932, and is distinguished as a period of managerial dominance in contrast with the owner management and the financial management of the two periods immediately preceding it.
Many of its characteristics continue, even today, but the dramatic events of World War II and the post-war period put it in such a different social and historical context as to create a new, sixth, period of economic organization which might be called "the pluralist economy." The features of this sixth period will be described later...
In the first place, each stage crated the conditions which tended to bring about the next stage; therefore we could say, in a sense, that each stage committed suicide.
The original economic organization of self-sufficient agrarian units (manors) was in a society organized so that its upper ranks—the lords, lay and ecclesiastical—found their desires for necessities so well met that they sought to exchange their surpluses of necessities for luxuries of remote origin.
This gave rise to a trade in foreign luxuries (spices, fine textiles, fine metals) which was the first evidence of the stage of commercial capitalism.
In this second stage, mercantile profits and widening markets created a demand for textiles and other goods which could be met only by application of power to production.
This gave the third stage: industrial capitalism. The stage of industrial capitalism soon gave rise to such an insatiable demand for heavy fixed capital, like railroad lines, steel mills, shipyards, and so on, that these investments could not be financed from the profits and private fortunes of individual proprietors. New instruments for financing industry came into existence in the form of limited-liability corporations and investment banks.
These were soon in a position to control the chief parts of the industrial system, since they provided capital to it.
This gave rise to financial capitalism.
The control of financial capitalism was used to integrate the industrial system into ever-larger units with interlinking financial controls. This made possible a reduction of competition with a resulting increase in profits.
As a result, the industrial system soon found that it was again able to finance its own expansion from its own profits, and, with this achievement, financial controls were weakened, and the stage of monopoly capitalism arrived. In this fifth stage, great industrial units, working together either directly or through cartels and trade associations, were in a position to exploit the majority of the people.
The result was a great economic crisis which soon developed into a struggle for control of the state—the minority hoping to use political power to defend their privileged position, the majority hoping to use the state to curtail the power and privileges of the minority.
Both hoped to use the power of the state to find some solution to the economic aspects of the crisis. This dualist struggle dwindled with the rise of economic and social pluralism after 1945.
http://real-world-news.org/bk-quigley/02.html#5
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Originally posted by Catknight:
A leading chinese scholar in mainland china concluded his analysis of the success of the western world :
One of the things we were asked to look into was what accounted for the success.infact the pre eminence of the West all over the world.We studied everything from the historical,political, economic, and cultural perspective.At first, it was thought you had more powerful guns than we had.then we thought it was you had the best political system.Next we focused on your economic system.But in the past twenty years, we have realised the heart of your culture is your religion: Christianity.That is why the west is so powerful.the christian moral foundation of social and cultural life was what made the emergence of capitalism and then the successful transition to democratic politics.We don't have any doubts about this
if thats the case we would have all converted to Christianity since 1965. LKY himself would have passed a law to ensure that.
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Originally posted by Catknight:
A leading chinese scholar in mainland china concluded his analysis of the success of the western world :
One of the things we were asked to look into was what accounted for the success.infact the pre eminence of the West all over the world.We studied everything from the historical,political, economic, and cultural perspective.At first, it was thought you had more powerful guns than we had.then we thought it was you had the best political system.Next we focused on your economic system.But in the past twenty years, we have realised the heart of your culture is your religion: Christianity.That is why the west is so powerful.the christian moral foundation of social and cultural life was what made the emergence of capitalism and then the successful transition to democratic politics.We don't have any doubts about this
How did this particular religion lead to capitalism? Did this "scholar" did any research and conclude other religions cannot lead to capatilism? If he didn't, then how can he claim he have no doubts about this?
Can this person be ranked a scholar if he made unproven conclusions?
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I tend to believe that the scholar's findings are right.
It is like, if you spend money on cigarettes, alcohol, prostitutes, you will definitely have less money than Christians that do no such things, all things being equal.
You should ask yourself whether you want to give up a eat drink and be merry lifestyle because your religion compels you to give it up on pain of going to hell.
What the findings say is simply that children that believe in santa claus behave better because they do not want to be in the "naughty" list.
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Originally posted by Catknight:
A leading chinese scholar in mainland china concluded his analysis of the success of the western world :
One of the things we were asked to look into was what accounted for the success.infact the pre eminence of the West all over the world.We studied everything from the historical,political, economic, and cultural perspective.At first, it was thought you had more powerful guns than we had.then we thought it was you had the best political system.Next we focused on your economic system.But in the past twenty years, we have realised the heart of your culture is your religion: Christianity.That is why the west is so powerful.the christian moral foundation of social and cultural life was what made the emergence of capitalism and then the successful transition to democratic politics.We don't have any doubts about this
Has the Chinese scholar considered that it was the Rulers of China - both ancient and in the modern age - that caused China to be more backward than the West ?
There were two books written by a retired UK Naval Rear-Admiral Gavin Menzies, who documented the glorious days of China in his book - ‘1421 – The Year China Discovered the World’ - which traced China's Admiral Cheng Ho discovery of North and South America more then 70 years earlier before Christopher Columbus did.
The book documented Admiral Cheng Ho's successful journeys across the globe to chart the unknown shorelines of all the land masses around the Pacific and Atlantic Oceans and created the first maritime map of the World.
In the course of his journey, Admiral Cheng Ho established trade routes between Africa, Middle-east, India, and South-east Asia with China - long before the Europeans ventured out of Europe - and spreading Chinese influence and culture across the globe.
Unlike the Europeans discoverers who travelled the globe to colonize and impose their will on the natives, Admiral Cheng Ho learnt about local cultures and left the native cultures intact without colonizing them. He even became a Muslim.
In Gavin Menzies second book - “1434 : The Year a Magnificent Chinese fleet sailed to Italy and ignited the Renaissance” - it documented evidences of Admiral Cheng Ho's arrival to Italy, and suggested that the Age of European Renaissance could not have happened without the gifts of Chinese inventions of the compass, sextant, and the scientific knowledge of astrology, the maps showing the charted waters of the Atlantic and Pacific, gun powder, and the Chinese canon.
It was during this European Renaissance that led the Europeans to find new means to move out of their continents to discover the globe, and find the errors of their ancient beliefs that the World was flat.
Even as Admiral Cheng Ho reached the pinnacle of his success in spreading Chinese influence across the ancient world, the historical records showed that the remaining enuchs in the Imperial Courts were envious of Admiral Cheng Ho's achievements.
These eunuchs ignited court intrigues and persuaded the Emperor to be more circumspect of Admiral Cheng Ho's growing influence in the Imperial Court; and they encouraged the Emperor to halt all further overseas adventures.
This led to the dissolution of the Imperial Fleet commanded by Admiral Cheng Ho, and the sudden insular looking policies of China that remained until the arrival of the Western traders to force the opening of China, and began to carve up territorial rights amongst themselves.
The destructive intrigues and rival schemes to seize power within the Imperial Court had brought China further backward, when the Empress Dowager prevented a strong succession lineage of Emperors to effectively rule China. The Empress Dowager was herself out of her own league without any experience nor the means to deal with the "foreign devil invasion" of China - that even involved Japan.
In more recent 20th Century history of China, the leadership crisis in China continued to give opportunity for the various Western and Japanese Colonialist to hold on to their claims in China.
The rivalries and court intrigues aborted Sun Yat Sen's efforts to modernize China, and resulted in Marshal Yuan Shi Kai usurping of power, which restored the ancient rule from the Imperial Palace. With the weak Imperial Rule, it largely gave a free hand to the existence of regional power centers of "tin pot" Generals and their private armies that launched incessant power struggles amongst themselves.
This continued to weaken China and allowed Japan to sweep in from Manchuria to gain more influence and later to attempt to takeover all China.
Even after the War, for almost 50 years, the Communist Party of China - under the leadership of Mao Tse Tung - could not advance China forward to its past glory.
His erratic and sudden switch in political thinking that launched the Cultural Revolution, had resulted in mass destruction of the rich historical archives of scientific knowledge, culture, and priceless artifacts; and led to the persecution and death of thousands of scientists, intellectuals, engineers and the educated few.
This was the common feature in China's history - of self-destruction, intrigues, rivalries - that led to her inability to match the progress in the "Western World".
It was not until Deng Xiao Peng's regaining of his political position in the late 1960s - after the death of his compatriots in the first generation of Communist Leadership and the persecution of the schemers in the Gang of Four led by Mao's wife - that gave him a free hand to open China to the World.
Deng Xiao Peng's analogy that "there is no difference between a Black or White Cat, as long as it catches the mouse" - allowed China to free their self-imposed mental straight jacket imposed by dogmatic Communist thinking and Marxist economic theories.
Could the Christian Religion be the reason for the success in the West and not its Institutionalized Political Forms and Structures that allowed the West an organized and clear path in their Political Transitions through the centuries ?
Following the small progress made by Deng Xiao Peng's call, if China had not begun a self-critical study of the shortcomings in their political idealism that hampered economic growth, restructured their legal systems, introduced new legislations to govern the huge populations in a vast land mass - could China regain her eminence today as the World's richest nation ?
If Christianity had been the engine of growth for the Western World, it did not stop the greed that led to the present day destruction of the Financial System of the World's leading Western Powers - whose political and industrial leadership has consistently been faithful Christians.
If the US Political System did not exist, would Barack Obama have the opportunity to showcase his ability to galvanize the US citizens from across the many political divides that exist in the US ?
This article from the Chinese Scholar will probably give LKY's "pace maker" a heart stopping shock - as it will puncture his long held belief in the supremacy of China's Confucian Ethics in providing a political model for good governance.
Ironically, LKY's adoption of Confucianism is a ploy to perpetuate his own legitimacy, as his adoption of Confucian Ethics is selective and self-serving.
Can Religion determine the success of any Nation ?
Should it not be the existence of a Transparent Political System that will provide the foundation for an Institutionalised and Principled Way forward to look after the interest of People coming together to form a Community and a Nation ?
For all the inherent weakness in the USA, it still manages to throw up a leader in Barack Obama that is embraced and supported by people from across a broad spectrum of political principles in this time of troubles.
Can the fractious population in China come together and freely determine for themselves - to find a leader whom they can support without the choice being made by a small select group and then imposed on them ?
From the very first paragraph, this article is no more then a self-serving Christian propaganda to justify its continued existence in the 21st Century.
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i agree with atobe that it was the renaissance period that laid the foundation and changes that can and took place during the industrial.Because it was a period of freedom and the power of the curch had been diminishing through the years.
Christanity is the root of their freedom??? Russia is also a christian country and they are backward like hell compare to other european countries throught history until this century.In moscow at the begining of the 1900s only 1 in 300 russians can read and write compare this to their prussian counterparts where at least 40% of them can write.
Ask that chinese scholar even heard of the inquisitors??
these people are hiried by the curch to root out heretic or actions that are frowned upon.If u had visited any european museum before u will know
u can see all the various kind of toture devices invented by christians to kill fellow christians.therefore ideals are normally not discussed...not developed..not persued
ALSO,the 30 years war and many other wars are faught between catholics and protestant european countries.
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I thought Islam is even more stringent on excesses, i don't see that working out much.
How about the view that Christians are more willing to rob weaker cultures because Christanity likes to promote a us versus them mentality, viewing any non Christian believing cultures as inferior and thus valid for complete exploitation ?
Christianity is the richest religion here, yet i see them contributing less proportion wise to the poor compared to religions like Buddhism and Islam. The free food center at Chinatown has to close down because of shrinking donations and New Creation is actually building Church cum Shopping Center.
Talk about an absurd conclusion.
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Originally posted by Stevenson101:
I thought Islam is even more stringent on excesses, i don't see that working out much.
How about the view that Christians are more willing to rob weaker cultures because Christanity likes to promote a us versus them mentality, viewing any non Christian believing cultures as inferior and thus valid for complete exploitation ?
Christianity is the richest religion here, yet i see them contributing less proportion wise to the poor compared to religions like Buddhism and Islam. The free food center at Chinatown has to close down because of shrinking donations and New Creation is actually building Church cum Shopping Center.
Talk about an absurd conclusion.
The free food center at Chinatown has to close down because of shrinking donations
In Singapore? Is there such one in Singapore?
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Originally posted by 4sg:
In Singapore? Is there such one in Singapore?
Meh i typed too fast and left out some details.
The fancy new Buddhist Temple at Chinatown.
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Originally posted by Stevenson101:
Meh i typed too fast and left out some details.
The fancy new Buddhist Temple at Chinatown.
I tot so.....
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Originally posted by Stevenson101:
I thought Islam is even more stringent on excesses, i don't see that working out much.
How about the view that Christians are more willing to rob weaker cultures because Christanity likes to promote a us versus them mentality, viewing any non Christian believing cultures as inferior and thus valid for complete exploitation ?
Christianity is the richest religion here, yet i see them contributing less proportion wise to the poor compared to religions like Buddhism and Islam. The free food center at Chinatown has to close down because of shrinking donations and New Creation is actually building Church cum Shopping Center.
Talk about an absurd conclusion.
The European Christians went out of their way - a very long way - to exploit weaker cultures across the globe.
They exploited the weaker American Native Indians and swept across the Americas, killing thousands and destroyed ancient civilizations in an exercise that we will term as 'genocide' todays language.
The Europeans were the one that created the 'slave trade' by exploiting the weak African natives who succumbed to the superior fire power that the Europeans inherited from the visiting Chinese in 1432.
The insatiable lust for wealth and adventure brought them around the globe but unlike the Chinese Admiral Cheng Ho who did not interfere with indigenous cultures, the European Christians began to proselytize and exploited the weaker societies.
It was the European Christians of all denominations that colonize almost every corner of the globe, destroying existing indigenous administrations, and imposing their set of laws and religion on the locals.
It was the ruthless use of raw power that allowed the European Christians to exercise dominance on the local indigenous peoples of different races, cultures, and religions.
It was wanton destruction that went against the core beliefs of Christianity that allowed the spread of European domination and the spread of the Christian faith.
History has recorded these events across the centuries.
Yes, Christianity is the richest faith in Singapore, and they will practice the European concept of "Charity begins with the Family" - with free meals to their own flock every Sunday before and / or after Church services, and this being a closed door session not open to the general public.
Christianity involvement with the public is only during periods of outreach to recruit new members into their flock - without food as an "enticement".
Unlike Christianity, the other local religions such as Buddhism, Hinduism, Sikhism, and Islam seem to reach out to the public through the principled practice of their faith.
They do this by charitable acts towards the general public, in providing daily meal sessions - (or on special occasions as in Islam) - to all and sundry who will walk into their premises without invitation.
A point to note is that these meals are not provided as a form of "enticement" to recruit new members to their respective faiths but as an expression of their religious teaching of being charitable towards others.
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Wow that came from a PRC scholar? Anyway the west seem to be in decline I mean specifically the US. I think they too have suffered from corruption nowadays to an extent which I do not know. Atheists are growing in number too in the west with stronger conviction and belief like never.
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Christianity is founded by constantine niceane creed after 300 years from jesus departure...many gospels were not included due to political reasons....it was a powerful instrument to wield over his roman subjects
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Originally posted by Miracles&Prophecies:
Wow that came from a PRC scholar?
Anyway the west seem to be in decline I mean specifically the US. I think they too have suffered from corruption nowadays to an extent which I do not know.
Atheists are growing in number too in the west with stronger conviction and belief like never.
nice try, but its epic phail
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Originally posted by Catknight:
Christianity is founded by constantine niceane creed after 300 years from jesus departure...many gospels were not included due to political reasons....it was a powerful instrument to wield over his roman subjects
History has always been written and decided by the victors.
Any history that get passed down to us has to favour the political authority at that point in history, since they would have the most access to literacy and the neccessary political power to enforce any views they favour.
The Bible would never had succeeded in surviving to the current age if it didn't omitted or altered information that would conflict with the social and political perceptions of that age.
The whole idea that the Bible can only contain Truth omits the fact that it is written by the hands of Man and is tainted by Man's many prejudices.
No one i've met really believes the magical battles that took place during the transition from the Shang to Zhou Dynasty. Why do we put so much faith on the story of Adam and Eve ?
I do believe all religions at their core encourages good and decent behavour, but often it is hijacked by individuals so that they could use it to wield power over others. But who am i kidding? We all have that potential.
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The Jews are living proof that we all can rely on the promises made by God in the Bible.
No?