Originally posted by S.gal83:Only because I live in the present era. If I live in the past era where it is the right thing to do, I will follow with the freedom of the majority.
maybe, we won't be able to find out =)
but we can agree, that with our current understanding, that the slavery of the africans and the rape of singapore was wrong.
so just because the majority says so, isn't definitive of what is right or wrong.
the majority isn't always right.
dumbdumb, the quotes by flavius josephus was believed to be forgery by many, but oh well, we can't know the truth.
and u showed me an apologetic website. i've seen apologetics claim that satan placed fossils on earth to mislead humans into believing evolution, so i do not really trust apologetics.
i believe in evolution, as it can be seen (just that evolution of humans cant be seen). Antibiotics lead to the evolution of bacteria, if they are not killed. The evolved bacteria thus becomes immune to antibiotics. This is why i think that humans evolved from more primitive lifeforms to be more credible.
However i know this evolved form of bacteria is still bacteria. Probably will take millions of years to evolve.
However some people believe God enforced evolution, shaping apes into man. This sounds more possible to me than creation (take genesis allegorically).
I think you should read this page: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesus since wikipedia is accesible to all, it has information for and against the existence and life of jesus.
dumbdumb, Do you believe Genesis to be an accurate historical account? Do you believe in miracles? What do you think of a Naturalist God/ Spinozian God? Can he be the same God as described in the bible?
It seems Theistic evolution has been dismissed by apologetics http://www.carm.org/secular-movements/evolution/theistic-evolution
The neanderthal man extinction page on carm.org provides incorrect information.
About Ethical Relativism, I do not agree with him, as i believe there to be NO logical absolutes (Influenced by philosopher David Hume). http://www.carm.org/secular-movements/relativism/ethical-relativism
everything is possible, (even absurd scenerios like i will sprout wings and fly tomorrow morning, but can you disprove that BEFORE tomorrow moring?) Probability is the question.
Originally posted by Creation1656:Hi Dumbdumb, i like to also ask u if u are prepared to accept with an open mind, if i can show u that there are many factual errors in the NT? i can show u many factual errors in the NT, to begin i will just quote one such factual errors.
And I heard the number of those who were sealed, one hundred and forty-four thousand sealed from every tribe of the sons of Israel:
from the tribe of Judah, twelve thousand were sealed, from the tribe of Reuben twelve thousand, from the tribe of Gad twelve thousand,
from the tribe of Asher twelve thousand, from the tribe of Naphtali twelve thousand, from the tribe of Manasseh twelve thousand,
from the tribe of Simeon twelve thousand, from the tribe of Levi twelve thousand, from the tribe of Issachar twelve thousand,
from the tribe of Zebulun twelve thousand, from the tribe of Joseph twelve thousand, from the tribe of Benjamin, twelve thousand were sealed. Revelation 7:4-8 NASB
Can u spot the factual errors? (Highlighted in blue) u may wish to ask your CGL or pastor, for clarification.
i have always wondered.... were the scholars too dumb to spot such mistakes when they were looking at the authenticity of the books....
bear in mind that Revelations was written as a glimpse of the future. If the names of the 12 were different, there must a good reason for it.
one of the reasons offered are:
http://www.biblestudy.org/question/why-is-tribe-of-dan-not-listed-in-book-of-revelation.html
different from OT? yeah...
mistake? maybe not.
Originally posted by Chin Eng:
i have always wondered.... were the scholars too dumb to spot such mistakes when they were looking at the authenticity of the books....
bear in mind that Revelations was written as a glimpse of the future. If the names of the 12 were different, there must a good reason for it.
one of the reasons offered are:
http://www.biblestudy.org/question/why-is-tribe-of-dan-not-listed-in-book-of-revelation.html
different from OT? yeah...
mistake? maybe not
Uncle chin eng, please allow me to tickle u with another, we should say mistake?,
Terah lived seventy years, and became the father of Abram, Nahor and Haran. Genesis 11:26 NASB
So Abram went forth as the LORD had spoken to him; and Lot went with him. Now Abram was seventy-five years old when he departed from Haran. Genesis 12:4
The days of Terah were two hundred and five years; and Terah died in Haran. Genesis 11:32 NASB
Then he left the land of the Chaldeans and settled in Haran From there, after his father died, God had him move to this country in which you are now living. Acts 7:4 NASB
The question is, Hashem commanded Abraham to leave Haran before or after the death of his father, Terah.? Please do the math.
controversies are aplenty....
how about this site (which claims to be Muslim): http://rightpath2.tripod.com/index.html
going back to your quotation.... acts 7 - ask yourself - under the context of the entire book.... is it a teaching? or was it a dialogue that was recorded?
at best, it was a speech made by Stephen.... whether he said it wrongly or not.... it does not hide the fact that it is NOT a Biblical teaching per se. It is not the first time someone in the Bible said something that may not be agreeable....
we need to read history as history, and doctrine as doctrine.
... but to those who want to keep finding faults.... there will always be plenty....
if a god ask me to die for him/her/it......
then that isnt a god.....
atleast not mine.....
Originally posted by Chin Eng:
how about this site (which claims to be Muslim): http://rightpath2.tripod.com/index.html
. but to those who want to keep finding faults.... there will always be plenty....
Hi Chin Eng, since u directed me to a muslim site with is critical to both the OT & NT. Let me ask u this question. Do u believe that Hashem created the Earth in 6 days?. fyi, i dun. The OT is a Jewish book, it is not a Muslim book or a Gentile book. Why not ask the rabbi, afterall it is their book, what is the meaning, that the earth is created in 6 days, which is not possible. Afterall the OT is a religious book, it is not a science textbook.
After a second reading of the Muslim site, i notice that the criticism are mostly directed at schematics. e.g. To a chinese this phrase, got eye no see big mountain, its meaning will totally different if interpreted by a non chinese Muslim or European etc.
Originally posted by Creation1656:Hi Chin Eng, since u directed me to a muslim site with is critical to both the OT & NT. Let me ask u this question. Do u believe that Hashem created the Earth in 6 days?. fyi, i dun. The OT is a Jewish book, it is not a Muslim book or a Gentile book. Why not ask the rabbi, afterall it is their book, what is the meaning, that the earth is created in 6 days, which is not possible. Afterall the OT is a religious book, it is not a science textbook.
the issue on whether one believes in the Old Earth or the New Earth theory is actually quite personal, and this topic has been argued many times over.
since you are asking for my PERSONAL stand, my opinion is that the "six" day record is anecdotal....
but it goes back to - why the need to agree one way or another? either way does not dilute the concept of the creation by God be, it instantenous or process.
If I truely felt God's calling, I will!
Originally posted by Chin Eng:
the issue on whether one believes in the Old Earth or the New Earth theory is actually quite personal, and this topic has been argued many times over.since you are asking for my PERSONAL stand, my opinion is that the "six" day record is anecdotal....
but it goes back to - why the need to agree one way or another? either way does not dilute the concept of the creation by God be, it instantenous or process.
so easily satisfied with so little knowledge? are you so very sure God created us? there are so many possibilities, don't you want to know how we humans came into this earth?
Originally posted by dAiyAm0nd0:so easily satisfied with so little knowledge? are you so very sure God created us? there are so many possibilities, don't you want to know how we humans came into this earth?
Well...if we r not the work of God's hands, then how the first humans came into this earth? i dun think is evolution if not we will behave like monkeys with no sense.
Originally posted by dAiyAm0nd0:so easily satisfied with so little knowledge? are you so very sure God created us? there are so many possibilities, don't you want to know how we humans came into this earth?
pick one.... I don't really care....
Originally posted by +Sikoyo+:Well...if we r not the work of God's hands, then how the first humans came into this earth? i dun think is evolution if not we will behave like monkeys with no sense.
then your knowledge on evolution is absolutely 0, as the theory of evolution does explain why we behave so differently from monkeys, i think you should read up more on evolution and maybe theistic evolution, to gain knowledge.
but i don't dare claim evolution is the truth. i don't dare claim anything is the truth. and i don't think creation is impossible. just less probable.
many people don't have the courage to challenge their beliefs and therefore dismiss other's idea without even knowing fully what it is all about, and this is an obstacle to the advancement of us, humans' intelligence.
Originally posted by dAiyAm0nd0:
many people don't have the courage to challenge their beliefs and therefore dismiss other's idea without even knowing fully what it is all about, and this is an obstacle to the advancement of us, humans' intelligence.
why is it that when someone chooses to believe in the creation theory to be seen as one who has not done their personal evaluation?
do you mean that for anyone who believes that there is a God that created the universe is always one who dismisses other's idea without even knowing fully what it is all about?
and for anyone who does not believe in a god is someone who has considered all the options?
is it not possible that for one who believe in a creator God had looked at all the possibility that the concept of the creator God makes the most sense?
Originally posted by Chin Eng:why is it that when someone chooses to believe in the creation theory to be seen as one who has not done their personal evaluation?
do you mean that for anyone who believes that there is a God that created the universe is always one who dismisses other's idea without even knowing fully what it is all about?
and for anyone who does not believe in a god is someone who has considered all the options?
is it not possible that for one who believe in a creator God had looked at all the possibility that the concept of the creator God makes the most sense?
Because it has the least scientific possibility.
Originally posted by Herzog_Zwei:Because it has the least scientific possibility.
science does not explain everything.
Originally posted by Chin Eng:why is it that when someone chooses to believe in the creation theory to be seen as one who has not done their personal evaluation?
do you mean that for anyone who believes that there is a God that created the universe is always one who dismisses other's idea without even knowing fully what it is all about?
and for anyone who does not believe in a god is someone who has considered all the options?
is it not possible that for one who believe in a creator God had looked at all the possibility that the concept of the creator God makes the most sense?
no. dumbdumb is one who has considered other options, i feel.
Originally posted by Creation1656:Uncle chin eng, please allow me to tickle u with another, we should say mistake?,
Terah lived seventy years, and became the father of Abram, Nahor and Haran. Genesis 11:26 NASB
So Abram went forth as the LORD had spoken to him; and Lot went with him. Now Abram was seventy-five years old when he departed from Haran. Genesis 12:4
The days of Terah were two hundred and five years; and Terah died in Haran. Genesis 11:32 NASB
Then he left the land of the Chaldeans and settled in Haran From there, after his father died, God had him move to this country in which you are now living. Acts 7:4 NASB
The question is, Hashem commanded Abraham to leave Haran before or after the death of his father, Terah.? Please do the math.
Act 7:4 specifically states that Abraham moved to Canaan after his father died.
Genesis 11:26 is not specific. There is speculation that Terah had triplets when he was 70 years old and Abram was first born. Then the numbers do not add up.
Originally posted by dAiyAm0nd0:no. dumbdumb is one who has considered other options, i feel.
thank you. =)
personally i am not a science guy. i didn't like chemistry nor did i like physics. and i definitely didn't take biology.
but there are some very superficial questions about evolution which i have heard and tried to understand.
like lack of missing links, support for the noah's flood, dna pool losing information, inaccurate carbon dating (all these i heard in a sermon at my church, but well, i wasn't really paying attention =P)
but that's creation which i am definitely not knowledgable enough to answer =)
maybe u can check this site out, the doctor who shared with my church is from this organization
http://www.answersingenesis.org/
what i know, is well, Jesus is God, Jesus is love, Jesus is salvation. =)
Originally posted by dAiyAm0nd0:then your knowledge on evolution is absolutely 0, as the theory of evolution does explain why we behave so differently from monkeys, i think you should read up more on evolution and maybe theistic evolution, to gain knowledge.
but i don't dare claim evolution is the truth. i don't dare claim anything is the truth. and i don't think creation is impossible. just less probable.
many people don't have the courage to challenge their beliefs and therefore dismiss other's idea without even knowing fully what it is all about, and this is an obstacle to the advancement of us, humans' intelligence.
well...since u claimed my knowledge of evolution is 0. perhaps u can provide the better understanding of explaining to me where and what humans evolved from? in ur own opinion.
and why does one need to challenge their very own beliefs if they ACTUALLY believe? isn't this contradicting oneself?
Of course, I will.
My god gives me food, drinks and clothing.
The name of my god is Money.
What I know, is well, Money is god, I love Money and Money is the greatest.
$$$