Originally posted by Chin Eng:is this an anti-catholic site: http://pages.swcp.com/antioch1/indepcath.pdf?
Unker very eng today to answer such nonsense questions.
Originally posted by Herzog_Zwei:
Unker very eng today to answer such nonsense questions.
if i boh eng, i won't post....
Originally posted by Chin Eng:
hmmm.... on one hand the catholic church does not normally describe itself as being an independent church, yet it is independent from the Methodists, the Anglicans etc etc.... i wonder what is what now...??? and smarty boy is again very good at mimicry.
well, again, it goes back to how you want to define things.... if you say that the 30+ Catholic parishes would make an "independent" church, so be it.... but that will go against any previous assumptions or any declarations by the Catholic parishes.... and, as I had said before, unless there is a documented record that the Catholic church is an independent church, i'd safely say that you guys are just trying to define things to make the issue convenient for your own argument.
one point that I will agree with you is: CHC is NOT the face of Christianity in Singapore.... and neither are the catholics.
My only purpose of describing the Catholic Church as 'independent' is to try to make a valid comparison between the sizes of the Catholic Church and City Harvest Church in Singapore. Since that is getting no where, let's get back to the earlier question at hand, which is whether City Harvest is the largest church (independent or otherwise) in Singapore.
On the one hand, you have City Harvest spread over two locations, both teaching the same doctrine and ultimately reporting to one chief pastor. On the other hand, you have the Catholic Church spread over 30+ parishes in Singapore, all teaching the same doctrine and ultimately reporting to Archbishop Chia. Tell me what you think is the best way of comparing the sizes of both churches ?
Take the larger City harvest location and compare it with the largest catholic parish ? Take both City Harvest locations and compare it with the largest catholic parish ? Take both City Harvest locations and compare it with all the catholic parishes ? What is your preferred method of comparison and why do you think that is valid ?
Originally posted by Chin Eng:I think this is probably the first instance where "Catholic" and "independent" is linked together.....
By the same tune that Omnia has stated previously, I guess I can assume that he endorses that concept.
I've linked the two to try to make apple-to-apple comparisons. Unlike others, I always endorse what I say in my posts.
Originally posted by Chin Eng:there seem to be other "independent" catholic churches....
http://pages.swcp.com/antioch1/indepcath.pdf
Seems that within the Catholic churches, there are also denominations some of which may not even fall under the control or the goverment of the Church at Rome.
Also, the practices are not as universal as first thought.....
It is good to see such progress....
Seems that the practices are not as common as previously thought...
So, if such catholic churches are considered to be independent catholic churches, who are they independent of?
And are those churches who fall under the jurisdiction of Rome also called independent churches?
How do we differentiate one "independent" catholic church from another "independent" catholic church?
Any local church in any location that is not in communion with the bishop of Rome (ie: the pope), who has its own Code of Canon Law and 'theological stand', is not part of the Catholic Church, regardless of what they call themselves. They have broken away from the one universal Church to form their own group, no different from all the protestant churches who have broken away from the Catholic Church and from each other.
Dogma and doctrine is universal in the Catholic Church, whether you are in Singapore, Rome or Timbuktu, although worship practices may differ depending on culture and tradition.
Originally posted by Chin Eng:
ok, by your definition, catholic websites are those that are singing the same song.... and anything else with a different take are anti-catholic website.... even though such websites will vehemently defend their rights to be catholic....ok... got it.
so there are no such thing as a bad catholic.... all catholics are good catholics, any "catholics" doing bad things are not catholics.... ok got it again.
Since I did not say above, you are a liar.... Simple.
Originally posted by Chin Eng:is this an anti-catholic site: http://pages.swcp.com/antioch1/indepcath.pdf?
Maybe you should get your facts right and go to their website to see what they says and understand who they are.....I am sure you know they are not member of The Catholic Church and what they says apply only to their church and not the Catholic Church.
Originally posted by Smarty Boy:Maybe you should get your facts right and go to their website to see what they says and understand who they are.....I am sure you know they are not member of The Catholic Church and what they says apply only to their church and not the Catholic Church.
the question was simple: WAS THAT WEBSITE AN ANTI-CATHOLIC WEBSITE?
Originally posted by Smarty Boy:Since I did not say above, you are a liar.... Simple.
did i say you said it? i was paraphasing.... you quite good in accusation hor?
Originally posted by Chin Eng:
did i say you said it? i was paraphasing.... you quite good in accusation hor?
Paraphasing what I did not say? Accusation?
Originally posted by Chin Eng:
the question was simple: WAS THAT WEBSITE AN ANTI-CATHOLIC WEBSITE?
What website? It was a pdf docs...
Originally posted by Omnia:Any local church in any location that is not in communion with the bishop of Rome (ie: the pope), who has its own Code of Canon Law and 'theological stand', is not part of the Catholic Church, regardless of what they call themselves. They have broken away from the one universal Church to form their own group, no different from all the protestant churches who have broken away from the Catholic Church and from each other.
Dogma and doctrine is universal in the Catholic Church, whether you are in Singapore, Rome or Timbuktu, although worship practices may differ depending on culture and tradition.
so my assumption is correct lah.... there are no bad catholics, seeing that bad catholics have broken away and not part of the catholic church..... ok got it, again....
... but these "catholics" also believe in Christ and do good works....??? hmmmm....
Originally posted by Omnia:My only purpose of describing the Catholic Church as 'independent' is to try to make a valid comparison between the sizes of the Catholic Church and City Harvest Church in Singapore. Since that is getting no where, let's get back to the earlier question at hand, which is whether City Harvest is the largest church (independent or otherwise) in Singapore.
On the one hand, you have City Harvest spread over two locations, both teaching the same doctrine and ultimately reporting to one chief pastor. On the other hand, you have the Catholic Church spread over 30+ parishes in Singapore, all teaching the same doctrine and ultimately reporting to Archbishop Chia. Tell me what you think is the best way of comparing the sizes of both churches ?
Take the larger City harvest location and compare it with the largest catholic parish ? Take both City Harvest locations and compare it with the largest catholic parish ? Take both City Harvest locations and compare it with all the catholic parishes ? What is your preferred method of comparison and why do you think that is valid ?
let's assume you are right..... what are you going to do about it.....?
Originally posted by Smarty Boy:Paraphasing what I did not say? Accusation?
paraphasing this:
there are so many "Catholic websites" around that are anti-Catholics as if you don't know.......
hmm, maybe you also need to check what is really a Catholic Church.......
catholic websites that are anti-catholic???
so only catholic websites that support Rome is true catholic...
any catholic website that does not suppor Rome is anti-catholic....
so are bad catholics really catholics?
Originally posted by Chin Eng:
paraphasing this:catholic websites that are anti-catholic???
so only catholic websites that support Rome is true catholic...
any catholic website that does not suppor Rome is anti-catholic....
so are bad catholics really catholics?
ha..ha..ha.. not paraphasing but twisting facts lah....so still liar!
"Catholics websites" that are anti-Catholics are operated by people whose intention is to smear Catholics with twisted facts (like you).
To satisfy you, here is one of the many : http://www.justforcatholics.org/
Well, you can call them Catholics or anything, it dose not matter but they are anti-Catholics running website that seems like "Catholics website". I don't know why they do what they did and maybe, they are also pro-Catholics in intention like you. I am sure you can understand them better than me.
I am not sure of your logic in what you are saying here...oxymoronic perhaps....and desparate to wriggle out (obviously)......
Try finding when did I says that there are no bad Catholics? I believed that there are assholes everywhere and even right here in this forum.
But you have gone far far too OT liao and you still going on and on? How to qualify as moderator??
Originally posted by Smarty Boy:ha..ha..ha.. not paraphasing but twisting facts lah....so still liar!
"Catholics websites" that are anti-Catholics are operated by people whose intention is to smear Catholics with twisted facts (like you).
To satisfy you, here is one of the many : http://www.justforcatholics.org/
Well, you can call them Catholics or anything, it dose not matter but they are anti-Catholics running website that seems like "Catholics website". I don't know why they do what they did and maybe, they are also pro-Catholics in intention like you. I am sure you can understand them better than me.
I am not sure of your logic in what you are saying here...oxymoronic perhaps....and desparate to wriggle out (obviously)......
Try finding when did I says that there are no bad Catholics? I believed that there are assholes everywhere and even right here in this forum.
But you have gone far far too OT liao and you still going on and on? How to qualify as moderator??
sure... http://www.justforcatholics.org/ is definitely an anticatholic website.... but that was not what I quoted from.... well, going by the omnia principle, since you quoted from this website, do i take it that you endorse the content???
i have NEVER EVER quoted from an anti-catholic website to deride catholics, if i had please show me.
i quote from http://pages.swcp.com/antioch1/indepcath.pdf? which came from http://www.churchofantioch.org/ which is a catholic church....
i had asked the question before and you seem not to want to answer the question as to whether the link i place was anti-catholic?
Originally posted by Smarty Boy:But you have gone far far too OT liao and you still going on and on? How to qualify as moderator??
hmm.... interesting thought..... ha ha
Originally posted by Chin Eng:sure... http://www.justforcatholics.org/ is definitely an anticatholic website.... but that was not what I quoted from.... well, going by the omnia principle, since you quoted from this website, do i take it that you endorse the content???
i have NEVER EVER quoted from an anti-catholic website to deride catholics, if i had please show me.
i quote from http://pages.swcp.com/antioch1/indepcath.pdf? which came from http://www.churchofantioch.org/ which is a catholic church....
i had asked the question before and you seem not to want to answer the question as to whether the link i place was anti-catholic?
Aiyah.....just tell you that there is such a website and never did I quote anything from them so what do I endorse about them? What contents? Why resort to so pathetic tactics?
You never quoted from anti-Catholic websites? Go check yourself in other thread when you tell me that what you quote is "this one is quite anti-catholic... " at http://www.sgforums.com/forums/1381/topics/344765?page=14
and you have the cheek to write in capital that you "NEVER EVER quoted from an anti-catholic website to deride catholics" ??
LIAR!
I never said you quoted from a anti-Catholic website, so why you keep asking non-essential questions?
I said: "there are so many "Catholic websites" around that are anti-Catholics as if you don't know.......
hmm, maybe you also need to check what is really a Catholic Church......."
and I though Omnia has already explained to you that the website you quoted is not a Catholic Church however they want to name it.
I am sure you are very familiar with USA and you liking in quoting from US wesbites....as you said : "there are many weird tracts from strange religious organisations lah.. especially in the good US of A. many of such organisation are quite narrow in their view of the world."
Originally posted by Chin Eng:
hmm.... interesting thought..... ha ha
actually, the interesting one is this....
Originally posted by Smarty Boy:ha..ha..ha.. not paraphasing but twisting facts lah....so still liar!
"Catholics websites" that are anti-Catholics are operated by people whose intention is to smear Catholics with twisted facts (like you).
To satisfy you, here is one of the many : http://www.justforcatholics.org/
Well, you can call them Catholics or anything, it dose not matter but they are anti-Catholics running website that seems like "Catholics website". I don't know why they do what they did and maybe, they are also pro-Catholics in intention like you. I am sure you can understand them better than me.
I am not sure of your logic in what you are saying here...oxymoronic perhaps....and desparate to wriggle out (obviously)......
Try finding when did I says that there are no bad Catholics? I believed that there are assholes everywhere and even right here in this forum.
But you have gone far far too OT liao and you still going on and on? How to qualify as moderator??
Originally posted by Smarty Boy:Aiyah.....just tell you that there is such a website and never did I quote anything from them so what do I endorse about them? What contents? Why resort to so pathetic tactics?
You never quoted from anti-Catholic websites? Go check yourself in other thread when you tell me that what you quote is "this one is quite anti-catholic... " at http://www.sgforums.com/forums/1381/topics/344765?page=14
and you have the cheek to write in capital that you "NEVER EVER quoted from an anti-catholic website to deride catholics" ??
yup, that CARM website was quoted,but did i use it to deride catholics??? the point is - did it DERIDE catholics? no I did not. Don't understand engrish???
well, once upon a time the revered omnia claimed that by merely stating something, i am endorsing that statement, so i am simply using the same principle.... so you either endorse the catholic website or is saying that omnia is wrong....
Originally posted by Smarty Boy:I said: "there are so many "Catholic websites" around that are anti-Catholics as if you don't know.......
hmm, maybe you also need to check what is really a Catholic Church......."
and I though Omnia has already explained to you that the website you quoted is not a Catholic Church however they want to name it.
I am sure you are very familiar with USA and you liking in quoting from US wesbites....as you said : "there are many weird tracts from strange religious organisations lah.. especially in the good US of A. many of such organisation are quite narrow in their view of the world."
i think it takes more than a declaration from omnia and smarty boy to convince anyone that a "catholic" church website is really not a "catholic" church.....
Originally posted by Chin Eng:yup, that CARM website was quoted,but did i use it to deride catholics??? the point is - did it DERIDE catholics? no I did not. Don't understand engrish???
well, once upon a time the revered omnia claimed that by merely stating something, i am endorsing that statement, so i am simply using the same principle.... so you either endorse the catholic website or is saying that omnia is wrong....
i think it takes more than a declaration from omnia and smarty boy to convince anyone that a "catholic" church website is really not a "catholic" church.....
What do you mean by deride since my england also not so powderful....care to explain?
Hmm, you quote from anti-Catholics website so that you do not deride Catholics? You lying again or what?
Maybe you quote from the website and use it to argue against Omnia? I am not sure.... but I did not even quote anything! Something wrong with you? So pathetic!!
Actually, the declaration is not from me or Omnia but facts which I think you also know...
If the church you mentioned is the same as our Catholic Church, then chc is the same as methodist church too....and we can say anything we want.
Originally posted by Smarty Boy:What do you mean by deride since my england also not so powderful....care to explain?
Hmm, you quote from anti-Catholics website so that you do not deride Catholics? You lying again or what?
Maybe you quote from the website and use it to argue against Omnia? I am not sure.... but I did not even quote anything! Something wrong with you? So pathetic!!
Actually, the declaration is not from me or Omnia but facts which I think you also know...
If the church you mentioned is the same as our Catholic Church, then chc is the same as methodist church too....and we can say anything we want.
since you too lazy to search....
http://www.answers.com/topic/deride - To speak of or treat with contemptuous mirth
please show me where I had spoken with contemptuous mirth about the catholic church.... otherwise you are the real liar.
... you didn't quote anything? quote weblink.... enough or not.
CHC is methodist.... this funny.... claims more and more ludicrious..... show proof please....
My reference http://www.churchofantioch.org/ is THE CATHOLIC APOSTOLIC CHURCH OF ANTIOCH... whether it is the same or not, it is up to you, but the name says it all. So if you are bothered about being "framed" go take it up with a higher authority..... get them to change the name, tell the Pope to condemn them, whatever, but before that happens that is still the CATHOLIC APOSTOLIC CHURCH OF ANTIOCH..
at the end of the day, if you think that your catholic church is being maligned, do something about it.... don't just kpkb in sgforums.
hmm, been awhile, so dunno what's gg on.
so what i will say is this:
actually, it's very simple. you can't just keep barking about the catholic church is being maglin etc etc in every argument.
people judge by the practices that they see is going on.
you can say "no, this isn't what's going on.. actually, what we meant is.. " etc etc, but truthfully, it's all just hollow words. in the end, you act on what you believe. and what's what everyone sees. actions of the catholics or christians.
that's where everyone will draw their conclusions.
Originally posted by Chin Eng:since you too lazy to search....
http://www.answers.com/topic/deride - To speak of or treat with contemptuous mirth
please show me where I had spoken with contemptuous mirth about the catholic church.... otherwise you are the real liar.
... you didn't quote anything? quote weblink.... enough or not.
CHC is methodist.... this funny.... claims more and more ludicrious..... show proof please....
My reference http://www.churchofantioch.org/ is THE CATHOLIC APOSTOLIC CHURCH OF ANTIOCH... whether it is the same or not, it is up to you, but the name says it all. So if you are not bothered about being "framed" go take it up with a higher authority..... get them to change the name, tell the Pope to condemn them, whatever, but before that happens that is still the CATHOLIC APOSTOLIC CHURCH OF ANTIOCH..
at the end of the day, if you think that your catholic church is being maligned, do something about it.... don't just kpkb in sgforums.
hmm, you quote an anti-Catholic link to show that the Catholic Church teaching is wrong....and that's not to deride Catholics doctrine? How oxymoronic! Maybe that's because you are pro-catholic......??
Both chc and methodist started by ex-anglican what...so same lor...going by your logic mah.
Just because they have the words "catholic" means they are the same as the Catholic Church? Just like website that have the word "catholic" in it means catholics websites to you even though they are completely anti-catholics? What's wrong with your brain?
And you think just because you twisted something, we must ask the Pope "to condemn them, whatever," ?? Stop being arrogant with your high and migthy attidute lah... Who do you think you are?
You can continue to choose to think this is the same Catholic Church - it's your choice but the fact will not change that it is not. You are just pathetic beyond descriptions.
Who says that the Catholic Church is being magligned here? You think you have done a good job at that? Try harder.....
You are the only one who is kpkb-ing here since you have been proven wrong with your apple and orange comparison thing.... moving further and further away from the thread.....so stop your kpkb-ing....
Originally posted by dumbdumb!:so what i will say is this:
actually, it's very simple. you can't just keep barking about the catholic church is being maglin etc etc in every argument.
malign..... not maglin.... sorry, got to say that, scully kena accused of being unfair.... hope you don't mind....
do you think that the catholic is an independent church? within the definition of CHC (and FCBC and NCC) being seen as an independent church....?