Originally posted by dAiyAm0nd0:well.. when an overwhelming number of people who share the same belief do things detrimental to our society, its hard not to stereotype isn't it?
What's so detrimental? There is nothing wrong with have huge no. of believers.
Originally posted by Chris88110:This is a stupid topic, either you believe or you don't, no one can tell you otherwise......
There is no stupid question, only stupid answer.
Originally posted by Miracles&Prophecies:
There is no stupid question, only stupid answer.
ouh? can you strip infront of me now and pee all over god.? is that a stupid question?
Pu
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ryeDZVhEuAo
the video i posted was of Benny Hinn. Search him on the net and u'll see many controversies about him, or just look at what he's doing in the video. Isn't that detrimental to people's mental health?
Well, you don't think so? Then i suggest u seek help from a psychiatrist. Or continue to be disillusioned, and others can make a mockery out of your mental state of health.
City Harvest Church, the largest church in Singapore endorses such a character. I wonder how many people have been swindled of their money and sanity.
Originally posted by dAiyAm0nd0:the video i posted was of Benny Hinn. Search him on the net and u'll see many controversies about him, or just look at what he's doing in the video. Isn't that detrimental to people's mental health?
Well, you don't think so? Then i suggest u seek help from a psychiatrist. Or continue to be disillusioned, and others can make a mockery out of your mental state of health.
City Harvest Church, the largest church in Singapore endorses such a character. I wonder how many people have been swindled of their money and sanity.
Do you have to be so rude? Or you just have EQ deficiency.
Disagree with you means have to get help from shrink? Wow! New form of intelligence here.
I appreciate some form of intelligence by stating why this and how that, instead of "take a look at this" or "do a search on that", "if you don't agree with me, get help from a psychiatrist".
Anyway, that's so much for educating somebody else's kid.
Ok back to the topic.
Are we done with this topic oredie?
Come on people...
Christians will never stop believing that there is God and atheists will never believe in God (at least till this point).
This topic is so jaded and we can continue talking and talking till the cows come home.
Let's move on bah!
Originally posted by dAiyAm0nd0:the video i posted was of Benny Hinn. Search him on the net and u'll see many controversies about him, or just look at what he's doing in the video. Isn't that detrimental to people's mental health?
Well, you don't think so? Then i suggest u seek help from a psychiatrist. Or continue to be disillusioned, and others can make a mockery out of your mental state of health.
City Harvest Church, the largest church in Singapore endorses such a character. I wonder how many people have been swindled of their money and sanity.
I agree with you that folks like Benny Hinn are detrimental to the Christian faith and to society. But as pointed out by Smarty Boy, Christianity is not Benny Hinn and we should not use him as the benchmark or icon for the Christian faith.
I would also like to point out that City Harvest is not the largest church in Singapore. Their overall membership of 25,000 (according to their website) is only about 15% - 25% of the number of Catholic Christians in Singapore.
Originally posted by Omnia:I would also like to point out that City Harvest is not the largest church in Singapore. Their overall membership of 25,000 (according to their website) is only about 15% - 25% of the number of Catholic Christians in Singapore.
technically that's comparing apples to oranges....
City Harvest is ONE PHYSICAL CHURCH..... The Catholic organisation is divided into many physical churches.... To put it into perspective, the Methodist church membership is larger than City Harvest, but we do not have ONE single church that is larger than them.
If the issue is: the number of Catholics in Singapore vs the number of non-Catholic Christians then it is a better comparison.
I think you are being too selective in your definition of "church".
Originally posted by Chin Eng:echnically that's comparing apples to oranges....
City Harvest is ONE PHYSICAL CHURCH..... The Catholic organisation is divided into many physical churches.... To put it into perspective, the Methodist church membership is larger than City Harvest, but we do not have ONE single church that is larger than them.
If the issue is: the number of Catholics in Singapore vs the number of non-Catholic Christians then it is a better comparison.
I think you are being too selective in your definition of "church".
going by your logic, we really should compare city harvest jurong or city harvest singapore expo (2 different physical locations) not city harvest (as a combination of jurong and expo). and do anyone know how many people they have in each ?
Omnia is simply comparing number of Catholics in Singapore with number of City Harvest believers.....nothing wrong.
If we compare methodist to city harvest, city harvest will be smaller and thus cannot claimed to be the biggest church.
what is your definition of "church"?
Originally posted by Smarty Boy:going by your logic, we really should compare city harvest jurong or city harvest singapore expo (2 different physical locations) not city harvest (as a combination of jurong and expo). and do anyone know how many people they have in each ?
Omnia is simply comparing number of Catholics in Singapore with number of City Harvest believers.....nothing wrong.
If we compare methodist to city harvest, city harvest will be smaller and thus cannot claimed to be the biggest church.
what is your definition of "church"?
a church can mean an individual building, or it can mean an umbrella organisation...
my mistake on the number of church locations CHC has... you are right, there are two.
would it offend you (or Omnia) if the claim is: CHC is the largest independent church in Singapore?
let it be stated that my dislike of CHC goes way way beyond my personal opinion of the Catholic church...
Originally posted by Honeybunz:Do you have to be so rude? Or you just have EQ deficiency.
Disagree with you means have to get help from shrink? Wow! New form of intelligence here.
I appreciate some form of intelligence by stating why this and how that, instead of "take a look at this" or "do a search on that", "if you don't agree with me, get help from a psychiatrist".
Anyway, that's so much for educating somebody else's kid.
Ok back to the topic.
Are we done with this topic oredie?
Come on people...
Christians will never stop believing that there is God and atheists will never believe in God (at least till this point).
This topic is so jaded and we can continue talking and talking till the cows come home.
Let's move on bah!
I admit i am rude, and its intentional, i am anti CHC more than i am anti-christ. and you can see my rudeness is towards disillusioned christians.
I'm not an atheist. im an agnostic (not towards the bible god of couse).
My goal is for christians to tweak a bit of their beliefs, by throwing away nonsensical claims such as miracle healings, and god having a personality and requiring worship. To read the bible as a book written by enlightened humans trying to teach, instead of a history textbook.
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Honey+Bunz
Hey guys..guys..stop all these debates. This could go on & on with no conclusion. to each of his own. We will all know the truth after we pass on.
Whether you believe in God or not, most importantly is to be a kind person with a clear conscience. Then after death, you are not afraid of anything.
Originally posted by +Sikoyo+:Hey guys..guys..stop all these debates. This could go on & on with no conclusion. to each of his own. We will all know the truth after we pass on.
Whether you believe in God or not, most importantly is to be a kind person with a clear conscience. Then after death, you are not afraid of anything.
After death, we can just wait for damnation.
Originally posted by Daisuke-kun:ouh? can you strip infront of me now and pee all over god.? is that a stupid question?
Can't you tell between insult and question?
Originally posted by Herzog_Zwei:
After death, we can just wait for damnation.
Don't condemn yourself. You are worth just as mine or any other people.
Originally posted by Miracles&Prophecies:
Don't condemn yourself. You are worth just as mine or any other people.
Just a view of mine:
If people are not afraid of damnation in death, then they will try and achieve their greatest in life.
I still think this is a stupid arguement, bottomline, its to each his own........ No one can tell you otherwise
Originally posted by Chin Eng:technically that's comparing apples to oranges....
City Harvest is ONE PHYSICAL CHURCH..... The Catholic organisation is divided into many physical churches.... To put it into perspective, the Methodist church membership is larger than City Harvest, but we do not have ONE single church that is larger than them.
If the issue is: the number of Catholics in Singapore vs the number of non-Catholic Christians then it is a better comparison.
I think you are being too selective in your definition of "church".
I don't think so. In defining a 'church', it makes more sense to look at unity of leadership and beliefs than mere physical locations.
The Catholic Church 'operates' out of more than thirty locations (parishes) throughout Singapore but they all 'report' to Archbishop Nicholas Chia. And regardless of which parish you go to, the services and the doctrinal beliefs are the same. For all intents and purposes, they form one Church. This is different from non-Catholic churches where each has its own 'chief' pastor and each differing in its doctrinal beliefs, some more than others.
As an analogy, if we want to compare the size of fast food companies in Singapore, say McDonalds vs Burger King, we would look at all Mac outlets as a single entity vs all BK outlets taken together. We don't compare just one Mac outlet vs one BK outlet. We also do not group BK, Carl's Junior, Long John's Silver and MosBurger together as one entity and compare it with McDonalds.
As such, the comparison between City Harvest Church membership (from all its locations in Singapore) vs the number of Catholic Christians in Singapore (from all parishes in Singapore) is valid.
Given the above, I may also not agree with your statement that "CHC is the largest independent church in Singapore"; it would depend on what we understand by 'independent church'. I would agree however to "CHC having the largest gathering of members in a single location for worship every Sunday on a regular basis." (assuming of course that this is true).
Originally posted by Chris88110:I still think this is a stupid arguement, bottomline, its to each his own........ No one can tell you otherwise
if thats the case, then there wouldnt be any evangelists and apologetics.
Originally posted by +Sikoyo+:Hey guys..guys..stop all these debates. This could go on & on with no conclusion. to each of his own. We will all know the truth after we pass on.
Whether you believe in God or not, most importantly is to be a kind person with a clear conscience. Then after death, you are not afraid of anything.
<p>My personal opinion, after rational analysis of "good and evil" is that "kindness", "good" or "evil" are all human created concepts OR God created concepts, if there exists a god.</p>
<p>thats why, IF there isn't a god, then why be good?</p>
<p>we would not have to fear damnation after death, IF there's an afterdeath, and IF "good and evil" are not god, but human created concepts.</p>
Originally posted by dAiyAm0nd0:<p>My personal opinion, after rational analysis of "good and evil" is that "kindness", "good" or "evil" are all human created concepts OR God created concepts, if there exists a god.</p>
<p>thats why, IF there isn't god or that god did not create these concepts, then why be good?</p>
<p>we would not have to fear damnation after death, IF there's an afterdeath, and IF "good and evil" are not god, but human created concepts.</p>
Originally posted by Chin Eng:a church can mean an individual building, or it can mean an umbrella organisation...
my mistake on the number of church locations CHC has... you are right, there are two.
would it offend you (or Omnia) if the claim is: CHC is the largest independent church in Singapore?
let it be stated that my dislike of CHC goes way way beyond my personal opinion of the Catholic church...
You did not offend me in any way, I just want to address what I think was incorrect - that's all.
CHC is not and will not be the largest "independent church" - I think Omnia has already explained that using the fast food example.
I do believe that many of the main stream churches are larger than CHC like the methodist.
"Mega churches" like CHC is claiming that they are so big because of God and how their pastors touched so many people.....that they are growing so rapidly etc... but in actual fact, there are so many churches that are much bigger than them.
Thanks for your explanation of what a church is to you.
I am not concern about your like or dislike of any church (which is obvious) ...... CHC by the way is started by a ex-Anglican too.
Originally posted by Omnia:I don't think so. In defining a 'church', it makes more sense to look at unity of leadership and beliefs than mere physical locations.
you can look at any way you want.... anyone can define anything anyway they want, perhaps sometimes for convenient sake.
i look more towards the orthodox definition of what a church is: ie, the dictionary definition... otherwise when two or three are gathered together, that is also a "church"
Originally posted by Omnia:Given the above, I may also not agree with your statement that "CHC is the largest independent church in Singapore"; it would depend on what we understand by 'independent church'. I would agree however to "CHC having the largest gathering of members in a single location for worship every Sunday on a regular basis." (assuming of course that this is true).
actually that statement did not come from me.... just google and see what is being claimed by CHC.
what then is an independent church?
Originally posted by Chin Eng:you can look at any way you want.... anyone can define anything anyway they want, perhaps sometimes for convenient sake.
i look more towards the orthodox definition of what a church is: ie, the dictionary definition... otherwise when two or three are gathered together, that is also a "church"
I have defined it not in a 'convenient' manner but in a way that is reasonable and which makes sense, especially in the context of the point raised by dAiyAm0nd0 about Christians in Singapore endorsing Benny Hinn.
Your 'orthodox definition' of church appears to focus on physical place of worship. I have already explained and given an analogy to demonstrate how this is not appropriate when comparing the size of churches.
Originally posted by Chin Eng:... actually that statement did not come from me.... just google and see what is being claimed by CHC.
what then is an independent church?
CHC can claim whatever it wants. Since you appear to endorse their claim about being the largest independent church in Singapore (by repeating the statement in your post), why don't you tell us what 'independent church' means ?
I have no idea what it means which is why I did not use the term in my alternate definition of CHC, and which is why I can't agree with your statement until you provide more clarity of what you mean or understand by that term.