God/Jesus sinned. Genocide is a sin of high order.
This is a truth.
I will entertain opposing views.
Regards
DL
Since you're posting in a Christian forum, I shall answer your question with the Christian viewpoint.
That statement would be untrue, because it would seem that you have a wrong understanding of what 'sin' means. Contrary to popular belief, 'Sin' refers not to a particular act such as killing, bowing down to idols, using curse words, etc.
Rather, 'Sin' is defined as ANY disobedience to God.
Since God cannot be disobedient to himself, God cannot sin.
As for Man, the above are generally said to be sins because they were committed when God has given specific command to refrain from such acts. When however, should God had given permission to kill, and his followers follow, it would not be considered a sin in that situation.
As for whether God is then 'cruel' when killing people who are 'alive', let us remember that He is the creator of all things. As an analogy, think of yourself as a computer programmer that came up with a computer character with artificial intelligence for companionship. If it does not function as you have intended, you would probably delete it, and recreate it.
Now say you are very skilled at programming, and the artifical intelligence programmed into your latest version is so advanced that it can seem like the character created has feelings. In fact, the character program thinks that it has feelings. It remembers things, it learns things from conversations that you have with it, it feels happy or sad when you praise or scolds it.
Now one day your program decides to delete some important files of yours that you have asked it to take care of, and also decides to download illegal porn, hacking and formatting other computers it unlawfully gained access to, stealing money from online banking facilities, etc. It also attempts to teach these behaviours to other computers in your home network by example. As the creator and accountable for its actions, would you delete it? Would you be 'cruel' and 'unjustified' for doing so?
Or would you keep it because it has "feelings", "memories", "knowledge" - things that were only there because you programmed it in, and not because it already had them inherently? What about the atrocities it had committed then? How would you rectify them? Recompense those who were wronged by its actions? Prevent further such acts from happening? Prevent other computers to realise the acts were wrong and will not be tolerated?
Now in the above story, replace "you" with "God" and the "character/program" with "humans", and tell me if He is justified in doing what He does.
Fire away.
Woah woah .. Whose God ? I heard he an old man with a dirty beard . Did Satan rape him ?
Originally posted by ChangeCanHappen:Since you're posting in a Christian forum, I shall answer your question with the Christian viewpoint.
That statement would be untrue, because it would seem that you have a wrong understanding of what 'sin' means. Contrary to popular belief, 'Sin' refers not to a particular act such as killing, bowing down to idols, using curse words, etc.
Rather, 'Sin' is defined as ANY disobedience to God.
Since God cannot be disobedient to himself, God cannot sin.
As for Man, the above are generally said to be sins because they were committed when God has given specific command to refrain from such acts. When however, should God had given permission to kill, and his followers follow, it would not be considered a sin in that situation.
As for whether God is then 'cruel' when killing people who are 'alive', let us remember that He is the creator of all things. As an analogy, think of yourself as a computer programmer that came up with a computer character with artificial intelligence for companionship. If it does not function as you have intended, you would probably delete it, and recreate it.
Now say you are very skilled at programming, and the artifical intelligence programmed into your latest version is so advanced that it can seem like the character created has feelings. In fact, the character program thinks that it has feelings. It remembers things, it learns things from conversations that you have with it, it feels happy or sad when you praise or scolds it.
Now one day your program decides to delete some important files of yours that you have asked it to take care of, and also decides to download illegal porn, hacking and formatting other computers it unlawfully gained access to, stealing money from online banking facilities, etc. It also attempts to teach these behaviours to other computers in your home network by example. As the creator and accountable for its actions, would you delete it? Would you be 'cruel' and 'unjustified' for doing so?
Or would you keep it because it has "feelings", "memories", "knowledge" - things that were only there because you programmed it in, and not because it already had them inherently? What about the atrocities it had committed then? How would you rectify them? Recompense those who were wronged by its actions? Prevent further such acts from happening? Prevent other computers to realise the acts were wrong and will not be tolerated?
Now in the above story, replace "you" with "God" and the "character/program" with "humans", and tell me if He is justified in doing what He does.
Fire away.
Since you are so fundamentalist in belief, let me enlighten you:
1) God has sinned in relation to one of the 10 commandments which God had proclaimed.(Ordering genocide on the people of the promised land)
2) Are not all man of Gods creation? Why choose to destroy some and not all?
3) Wouldn't that mean that it is possible that some people are damned from birth and thus can never recieve salvation?
4) Is there a possiblity that all mankind are damned by their nature?
Originally posted by Herzog_Zwei:Since you are so fundamentalist in belief, let me enlighten you:
1) God has sinned in relation to one of the 10 commandments which God had proclaimed.(Ordering genocide on the people of the promised land)
2) Are not all man of Gods creation? Why choose to destroy some and not all?
3) Wouldn't that mean that it is possible that some people are damned from birth and thus can never recieve salvation?
4) Is there a possiblity that all mankind are damned by their nature?
1) Erm. Do learn to read before replying. It's in the first few paragraph that I had explained: "Sin" is not the commiting of any particular acts, but the *disobedience* to God. God can never be "disobedient" to Himself, therefore, by definition, it is impossible for Him to sin.
Also, the Commandments are issued to Man, in obedience to Himself. It applies not to him. It is also issued FOR man - The commandments were issued to control the wretched, fallen natures of man, and not meant for God, seeing how being the creator, he cannot do wrong.
Also, when God ordered the destruction of the unbelievers, he does so for a reason: they were occupying promised land God had meant for his chosen people. God, being the creator and owner of the world, and indeed, humans as well as the promised land itself, had that right. Even for people, when enemies occupy your motherland, would you not feel compelled to remove them, even if it means going to war and taking lives? Would you not have justified the resistance when Singapore was occupied by the Japanese army during WW2?
Yet, had the commandments not been issued by Him, the Jews would have continued to go on to other wars (out of human greed or pride) even when it is not meant for them to do so. In fact, if you have read the bible, you would read about how Israel used to LOSE wars whenever they fought or tried to invade another land without the allowance of God.
On the right of God, it is in fact quite similar to how it is legal for the government to cane you, or sentence you to death by hanging, but it is not okay for you to kill anyone, or even cane your own children when they are naughty - it can be considered child abuse if they decide to prosecute. It is this way, because supposedly THEY know better than common individuals.
If the world can accept fallible Man to make such decisions, who are we to take away this perogative from God?
And now that that's cleared up, here's the last kicker:
You made one major mistake in your questioning, that makes it clear you had not correctly understood, remembered (or even tried to read) the bible in its entirely. The commandments were only issued AFTER the Jews had reached the promised land. So one way or another, God has not broken his commandments by the supposed 'genocide'.
2) Also in my explanation. Once again, read before applying please. There cannot be proper discourse if you choose to staunchly stick to your own set of thinking without first considering the views of others.
Anyway, I have already explained that those who disobey are destroyed, while those who obey are kept. In my analogy, the programs (people) were created for God's reasons and purpose. If they deviate from it, and cause others to do the same, in order to protect the rest, they have to be removed.
3) No, God provides each person with choice, like the programs each have an artificial intelligence to decide how they want to behave.
4) In relation to 3), no. They are not all damned, but all are born with the possibility that they may choose life or death by their own actions.
To further illustrate, one of the "fallacies" non-Christians claim that Christianity has is that it promises both the concept of "free-will" and also "predestination". Since these two seems to be mutually exclusive, Christianity MUST be a farce - right?
Wrong. It's because of a limited world view. Using computer games as an analogy: A game programmer would have "predestined" all things that can happen in a game. There are things you can do, things that you cannot, things that happen when you or one of the characters in the game does something, places that you can walk, whether you can jump, how high you can jump...etc.
The rules of the gameworld is preprogrammed and fixed. How you can survive and win the game, get hurt or lose the game is fixed. You can choose to walk where you are allowed to, attack enemies or use stealth if you please. The game (life) does not dictate how you play (live) it. The rules and enviroment, and your capabilities and abilities has been fixed, yes, but despite all that, you can choose to play (live) the way you want, making the best use of the abilities that were given to you. Bad things will happen that affects your confidence in playing the game in a proper manner. You may get hurt, lose characters (people) or items (property) that you encounter and care about in this game (life), and you may choose to cheat (sin). But the choices are yours, the programmer (God) does not force your hand.
Some people may find the game easier (less temptations, trials and tribulations), and some may find it harder (more temptations, trials and tribulations), but can we say it is unfair just because some managed to complete it and some don't?
Next time you play a video game, think about it.
Originally posted by dAiyAm0nd0:It’s exactly because killing can be justified in the name of a god, that terrorists and suicide bombers exist.
you can argue that your god did not tell you to do such things, but for all that matters, in the suicide bomber’s minds, their god did tell them to commit genocide.
you all share the same god, don’t u? just that you understand him differently.
I wonder what makes you think your understanding of him is right? Given that ever since christianity was created, mankind has spontaneously found irreconcilable differences between the scripture’s claims and the findings of modern science.
Eg:
1) The world was flat.
2) The sun revolves around the earth.If you think that everything u believe about christianity is right, then u must believe that you are one of the pioneers who actually understood the will of god.
Terrorists will exist whether or not they believe in a God. Any crime can happen so long the perpertrator has a way of 'justifying' it to him/herself. Some of the world's worst murderers' justification was simply "Because it felt right".
But that's the failing of Man, and not God.
No one can proof that he/she knows the will of God. But Christians are not called upon to prove themselves, (in fact we are called to do good things in secret) but to do the work of He who made them, loved them, and called to share in His work. To spread the gospel and to live as the anointed one has exemplified.
ChangeCanHappen, it's nice to see you defend the name of God. But the problem is anti-christians never listens. Your long post is wasted.
Herzog_Zwei never reads with his heart. It's all a one way traffic opinion from him. All his posts are like that in this forum.
Hahahaha...:D
Originally posted by ChangeCanHappen:Terrorists will exist whether or not they believe in a God. Any crime can happen so long the perpertrator has a way of 'justifying' it to him/herself. Some of the world's worst murderers' justification was simply "Because it felt right".
But that's the failing of Man, and not God.
No one can proof that he/she knows the will of God. But Christians are not called upon to prove themselves, (in fact we are called to do good things in secret) but to do the work of He who made them, loved them, and called to share in His work. To spread the gospel and to live as the anointed one has exemplified.
Terrorists will always exist, its just their numbers and ferocity that change, usually amplified by deluded beliefs in god.