How to dispose of a bible ?
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Just give them to the parish office of the church near your house, Fatum.
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Originally posted by dumbdumb!:
yeah they said sentimental value (they hinted that they had attachment to it). but it shouldn't be so what. they got affected in their prayer life because an inanimated object was changed. they don't say it, but it's really easy to fall into the mental trap of idolatry. even for myself.. it's only a thin line in your thought life - from using the statue to remind yourself of a particular person, and to thinking that Jesus is on the cross now.
It's just sentimental value and attachment to an object you own.....like your favourite toy, books, cd whatever....
Never come across to thinking that "Jesus is on the cross now" because He is not.
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Originally posted by dumbdumb!:
but it's really easy to fall into the mental trap of idolatry. even for myself.. it's only a thin line in your thought life -
that's because you have been "sold" on this idea for a long time.....but in actual fact, it is not....
So, it's up to you to understand what you are doing and understanding what your faith is about and what the Church is teaching. Which is what you are doing now by following yr gf......
Maybe, there are "Catholics" who think God is on that cross or whatever (though I have not met one myself) ....but also check as not everyone who attend Mass, Novena or even rosary prayers are Catholics Christians....many are still searching and discovering the faith. I am not sure about people you meet.....
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i just watched the news, about the black nazarene... look at it. how is that right?
everyone wants to touch the statue, believing it has special powers, those who can't touch it, throw white towels at the men carrying it, and the men wipe the statue and throw it back at them.. they march barefooted for miles, some as a sign of humility, and for others, to fulfil some vow or if their prayers have been answered
how can that be endorsed and encouraged...?
i know you keep telling me you all don't revere inanimated objects, they're just reminders etc.. but how do you explain that?
For more than 200 years, the statue has been placed on a golden red carriage every January 9th and pulled through the streets of Quiapo by male devotees clad in maroon. People who have touched the Nazarene are reported to have sometimes been healed of their diseases. Catholics come from all over Manila for the chance that they will be able to get close enough to touch the image and perhaps even receive a miracle. They also throw towels or handkerchiefs to the people guarding the statue and ask them to rub them on the statue in hopes of carrying some of that power away with them.
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Originally posted by dumbdumb!:
i just watched the news, about the black nazarene... look at it. how is that right?
everyone wants to touch the statue, believing it has special powers, those who can't touch it, throw white towels at the men carrying it, and the men wipe the statue and throw it back at them.. they march barefooted for miles, some as a sign of humility, and for others, to fulfil some vow or if their prayers have been answered
how can that be endorsed and encouraged...?
i know you keep telling me you all don't revere inanimated objects, they're just reminders etc.. but how do you explain that?
You rightly quoted that this has been a tradition for more than 200 years and I believed you already read about it at wikipedia.
Some historical facts:
- the Black Nazarene came from a boat that caught fire, turning it from its original white into black or charred complexion
- The image survived the great fires that destroyed Quiapo Church in 1791 and 1929, the great earthquakes of 1645 and 1863, and the destructive Bombing of Manila in 1945 during World War II.
which may be why there is this feast (celebration)......and why they think this statue is special as God did not allow it to be destroyed (a miracle itself).
To be simple minded, we can read it as by touching the Black Nazarene, miracles can happen.....
The truth is, "But more than just an expression of faith, the Catholic Church is reminding the Filipino faithful that for miracles to happen, prayers must be accompanied by action"
as reported in CNA and you can read about it here.
Do they think Jesus in in that statue? I don't think they do....Do you?
By the way, this statue on parade is not the original one...." in 1998, a replica of the original Black Nazarene was first paraded due to the repeated damages inflicted on the statue."
and also wonder if they did protest (with the change) like the rosary people you mentioned......
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i'd rather burn the bible .
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Originally posted by Smarty Boy:
You rightly quoted that this has been a tradition for more than 200 years and I believed you already read about it at wikipedia.
Some historical facts:
- the Black Nazarene came from a boat that caught fire, turning it from its original white into black or charred complexion
- The image survived the great fires that destroyed Quiapo Church in 1791 and 1929, the great earthquakes of 1645 and 1863, and the destructive Bombing of Manila in 1945 during World War II.
which may be why there is this feast (celebration)......and why they think this statue is special as God did not allow it to be destroyed (a miracle itself).
To be simple minded, we can read it as by touching the Black Nazarene, miracles can happen.....
The truth is, "But more than just an expression of faith, the Catholic Church is reminding the Filipino faithful that for miracles to happen, prayers must be accompanied by action"
as reported in CNA and you can read about it here.
Do they think Jesus in in that statue? I don't think they do....Do you?
By the way, this statue on parade is not the original one...." in 1998, a replica of the original Black Nazarene was first paraded due to the repeated damages inflicted on the statue."
and also wonder if they did protest (with the change) like the rosary people you mentioned......
miracles do happen, but not because they touched the statue. why does everyone want to touch the statue? if they don't touch it, they miss out on the blessing? it's really really really disturbs me, u can only take me that far with ur denial that it's not idolatry.
no offence but it is very paganistic to me
yes, miracles must be accompanied by action - you pray for good results, u must study hard, you are looking for a job, a wife, you pray, then go out in faith and find one.
not you pray for financial help, then go touch a statue. there's no difference from the practice of ppl rubbing the laughing buddha's belly for good luck etc.
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GIVE IT TO ME!! I will gladly take it and give it to someone else who can appreciate its full worth. Ahahall pm me if you're serious about it..
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sry.. accidentally clicked twice then dunno how to delete.. didnt mean to double post...
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Originally posted by Joshen zx:
GIVE IT TO ME!! I will gladly take it and give it to someone else who can appreciate its full worth. Ahahall pm me if you're serious about it..
actually, you're not the first one to ask for it ....
as of now, I haven't decided what to do with it ....
it's a catholic bible though, with both the old and new testaments ......
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Originally posted by Fatum:
actually, you're not the first one to ask for it ....
as of now, I haven't decided what to do with it ....
it's a catholic bible though, with both the old and new testaments ......
i think u can just go to a catholic church n donate there, they will have more use for it
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Originally posted by dumbdumb!:
i just watched the news, about the black nazarene... look at it. how is that right?
everyone wants to touch the statue, believing it has special powers, those who can't touch it, throw white towels at the men carrying it, and the men wipe the statue and throw it back at them.. they march barefooted for miles, some as a sign of humility, and for others, to fulfil some vow or if their prayers have been answered
how can that be endorsed and encouraged...?
i know you keep telling me you all don't revere inanimated objects, they're just reminders etc.. but how do you explain that?
The actions of the folks remind me of the bible account of the woman suffering from hemorrahage who came from behind Jesus amongst the crowd and touched his cloak, thinking, "if I but touch his clothes, I shall be cured." (Mark 5:25); and how people laid out their sick on the streets when they heard that St Peter was coming by, that at least his shadow might fall on the sick and heal them (Acts 5:15).
There is nothing inherently wrong in using animate or inanimate objects to remind us of God, to help us in prayer etc as long as we always remember that any miracle comes from God, not from a statue, a cloak or a shadow. But I would agree that there is a danger of falling into superstition if we carry things too far. It all depends on the beliefs and mindset of the person involved. And superstition is something that the Catholic Church denounces in its teachings (Catechism of the Catholic Church 2110-2111).
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Originally posted by Omnia:
The actions of the folks remind me of the bible account of the woman suffering from hemorrahage who came from behind Jesus amongst the crowd and touched his cloak, thinking, "if I but touch his clothes, I shall be cured." (Mark 5:25); and how people laid out their sick on the streets when they heard that St Peter was coming by, that at least his shadow might fall on the sick and heal them (Acts 5:15).
There is nothing inherently wrong in using animate or inanimate objects to remind us of God, to help us in prayer etc as long as we always remember that any miracle comes from God, not from a statue, a cloak or a shadow. But I would agree that there is a danger of falling into superstition if we carry things too far. It all depends on the beliefs and mindset of the person involved. And superstition is something that the Catholic Church denounces in its teachings (Catechism of the Catholic Church 2110-2111).
the difference is. in that time, they grabbed the person's clothes. and now, they're grabbing a statue's clothes.
the woman with the bleeding went to God with her illness, and they went to a statue with their illnesses
u seriously think for a moment, is this what God approves? throughout the entire bible, He's pretty consistant in His stand about idolatry and people who treat them with reverence and think they have powers and abilities.
you can't just quote something and use it to support something which is kinda clear in the bible.
it's 2 different issues, one is about treating the statue as if it has power to heal, and another is about acting in faith. don't confuse the 2 issues?
dunno la. it was really.. disturbing for me
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Originally posted by dumbdumb!:
the difference is. in that time, they grabbed the person's clothes. and now, they're grabbing a statue's clothes.
the woman with the bleeding went to God with her illness, and they went to a statue with their illnesses
u seriously think for a moment, is this what God approves? throughout the entire bible, He's pretty consistant in His stand about idolatry and people who treat them with reverence and think they have powers and abilities.
you can't just quote something and use it to support something which is kinda clear in the bible.
it's 2 different issues, one is about treating the statue as if it has power to heal, and another is about acting in faith. don't confuse the 2 issues?
dunno la. it was really.. disturbing for me
This is just a tradition that has been passed down....and it is the act of faith. The act that by touching the statue, it is like touching God......and NOT that the statue is God.
It is disturbing to you because you have yet to open your heart and mind enough....I guess....
Idolatry is when one makes the object and worship it as God. If they do so in this case, they would have been a "new god" called "the black nazarene" and people who think that the statue is god will flock there every day to pray .... and will not go to their own parish Church.
They are not treating the statue as having power to heal but their action (which is an act of faith) will (if that's God's will) .....and the Church has released an official statement to tell them that prayers and actions are needed.
Building staues etc... are allowed by God and in fact, he did ordered it to be made in scripture...
This celebration is done in line with the Church's calender when we celebrate the Baptism of Our Lord (you will know if you ahve attended Mass this week-end).
There is no idolatry here.....or anywhere else within the Catholic Church. FYI, Catholic Churches teaches that idolatry is not allowed by God.