Birth Of Jesus
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Originally posted by Smarty Boy:
As you rightly said, before Christ, there is this story and just a story. When Chrst comes, it is proven historically and the Bible is just one of the records of His life here. People knew and passed down the events and knowledge.....and it is the truth.
the story is not real ,too. -
Originally posted by NerdzRulz:
Joolhead, What is your purpose here? Did you read the topic before you started ranting? If you can't accept the fact that there is a God then please keep it to yourself. I don't know whether there is or isn't a God but could you please leave this topic alone? Your contributions only resulted in a feud between you and [J]erry, therefore to prevent any more problems, please leave this topic alone.
sure brother...lol
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Originally posted by Honeybunz:
there is also no indication that He is not.
Yes Bible is recorded by man and there is nothing wrong about it unless you want to see God stretching his hand down to us, grab a pen and write the Book before our eyes. Most Christians probably don't mind. But it's going to freak the hell out of the non believers.
you sure man don't make any mistake even in writting the bible????
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Originally posted by Joolead:
you sure man don't make any mistake even in writting the bible????
it's an old theory which many have tried to use to disprove the bible.
go read up how the bible used to be recorded, the prophecies which occurred and the person they are writing about - Jesus
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Originally posted by dumbdumb!:
it's an old theory which many have tried to use to disprove the bible.
go read up how the bible used to be recorded, the prophecies which occurred and the person they are writing about - Jesus
Yup, by man right. -
Originally posted by Joolead:
Yup, by man right.yep, recorded and re recorded by man. but the events that happened, i'm sure it's just one big conspiracy that coincidently, Joseph and Mary(because she's ambitious and wanted her baby to be remembered for the next thousands of years) decided to try (and succeeded) to fulfil hundreds of hundreds of years old prophecies which foretold of the messiah and orchestrated with the entire jewish nation, and roman empire to have him killed in exactly the manner described hundreds of years ago by prophets of old.
Oh, i'm sure, that everythingm from his lineage to his lifestyle, and to his death, it's all just one big conspiracy by man, and none of it is orchestrated by God. =)
i think strike toto easier.
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Originally posted by Joolead:
the story is real ,too.Proof?
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hi all, wad i wanna say is is there anything on earth tat can be 100% proven??? the word "proof" has often been abused...when ppl ask for proof...wad kind of proof...i remember miracles & prophecies once said this:" public proof no way, private proof, yes , plenty... y r we asking others to prove to us when at the end of the day, the best form of proof is personal/private experience? i ask everyone here a qn: say i am standing at a road junction full of vehicles n am hesitating whether to cross the road. now i ask u: prove to me tat if i cross the road, i wun get knock down my a vehicle. if u can prove to me, then i will cross." how will anyone prove to me? if u cross the road urself n when u get to the other end, reply me by saying:" see? i made it to the other end. i have proven to u its safe to cross the road." my answer to u is:" sorry, u have NOT proven to me. u have onli proven tat YOU wun get knocked down by wad abt myself? can i use ur personal experience of crossing the road safely as proof tat i will also get across safely? the way to prove to myself of cuz is to TAKE A STEP OF FAITH n cross the road myself...it requires faith cos there is always tat one in a million chance tat one of the drivers happen to be my enemy n is waiting to knock me down when i am crossing the road even when the "green man" is flashing. likewise, how to prove to others tat God exist? there is no way we can prove 100% unless these ppl r willing to experience God themselves...cheers!!!
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Originally posted by Joolead:
... Adam and Eve children get ape monkey as their wife since god only ceated Adam and Eve.later Eve give birth two son so where did they can get their wife ape monkey?(if i don't read the bible.)
Adam and Eve had more than two children, both male and female offsprings. The sons did not need to have ape monkeys for wives.
Originally posted by Joolead:... No ,you are since you believe in the bible. i believe in science .
I believe in both science and God & the bible. The two do not have to contradict (and will not contradict for Christians since we believe that God 'made' science, just as he did time and everything else in the universe).
Originally posted by Joolead:... yes,they are what item and what is their life styple is over that period of time.But it did not indictacte that Jesus is god or super human.since the bible is written by man
Accepting that there was indeed a historical figure called Jesus (regardless of whether he was divine) is a good first step
.Actually, I can sympathise with you. For a non-Christian, I can understand your difficulty in accepting that the bible is the word of God, that the miracles described really did occur, that what the Church and the bible teache about the divinity of Jesus is true. You will not find 'scientific proof' of Jesus as God, just as you will not be able to 'scientifically disprove' the existence of God.
We will never be able to convince you of God, only God himself can reach out to you. It might be through someone you love and admire, it might be through various experiences. But whatever it might be, I pray that you do not resist God's graces and love, that you ultimately leave this world in God's friendship. Afterall, heaven is big enough for everyone.
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Originally posted by Joolead:
you sure man don't make any mistake even in writting the bible????
The Bible is a compilation of many books. If there was any mistake in any of the book, it would have been rejected by the Church and not be part of the Bible. Perhaps you may want to read about the history of Bible, how it came about. I am not putting it here, cuz it's a long story (it took 1 RCIA lesson just to go through this part of the history and somemore it's already a summarised version) and I may not be able to remember every detail correctly.
To understand why the Church teaches this and that as well as the Bible, one has to undertstand the history, culture and politics as well.
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so now bringing tis discussion back to the topic, is it possible to prove the birth of jesus? the answer is no. the furthest we can go is to provide reasonings to make it seem logical n reasonable tat he was indeed born as the saviour to mankind. its like saying, can we realli prove tat albert einstein existed??? we have seen photos of him, read abt him etc...but did any of us live during his time to noe tat he existed??? could the photos n facts recorded abt him been fabricated? maybe he nvr existed. albert einstein could jolly well be a fictitious character tat man made up to provide an answer to the qn on who invented the law of relativism for eg... science said tat sth is onli considered to exist if tat sth can be touched, felt, seen, tasted or smelled. can any of us touch, feel, see, taste or smell albert einstein? since TS believe in science, then he shld not believe tat albert einstein once existed...if tats the case, then all the historical scientists may not have existed. tis leads to the qn: where then did the scientific laws n theories come from? u see, if we do not believe in a 1st cause, tis argument can go on n on 4ever. its regressive without any end. so, wad proof r we toking abt here?
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Originally posted by Honeybunz:
there is also no indication that He is not.
Yes Bible is recorded by man and there is nothing wrong about it unless you want to see God stretching his hand down to us, grab a pen and write the Book before our eyes. Most Christians probably don't mind. But it's going to freak the hell out of the non believers.
But then it's a true scientific proof that there's a God out there. -
Originally posted by Servant:
Dear M&P,
Very inspiring post, thank you
To my fellow Christians (and gentle non-Christians) out there, seems to me that there are a few who post on this forum (especially in this thread) who go all out to offend and provoke others, then retreat and say 'You better not lash back 'cos you're supposed to be Christ-like!'.
No point getting offended or upset, 'cos their actions speak for the 'attractiveness' of their own belief system. Best way to deal with this is to ignore their meaningless posts and pray for them. Stay strong ya?
"Blessed are you when people insult you and persecute you, and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of Me. Rejoice and be glad, for your reward in heaven is great; for in the same way they persecuted the prophets who were before you." - Matthew 5:11-12
Wow thanks for your kind words, stay blessed.
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Originally posted by dumbdumb!:
yep, recorded and re recorded by man. but the events that happened, i'm sure it's just one big conspiracy that coincidently, Joseph and Mary(because she's ambitious and wanted her baby to be remembered for the next thousands of years) decided to try (and succeeded) to fulfil hundreds of hundreds of years old prophecies which foretold of the messiah and orchestrated with the entire jewish nation, and roman empire to have him killed in exactly the manner described hundreds of years ago by prophets of old.
Oh, i'm sure, that everythingm from his lineage to his lifestyle, and to his death, it's all just one big conspiracy by man, and none of it is orchestrated by God. =)
i think strike toto easier.
yup ..agreed
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Originally posted by Herzog_Zwei:
But then it's a true scientific proof that there's a God out there.no God out there.
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Originally posted by Joolead:
no God out there.
and i thought u belive in SCIENCE alot? kid
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Originally posted by despondent:
so now bringing tis discussion back to the topic, is it possible to prove the birth of jesus? the answer is no. the furthest we can go is to provide reasonings to make it seem logical n reasonable tat he was indeed born as the saviour to mankind. its like saying, can we realli prove tat albert einstein existed??? we have seen photos of him, read abt him etc…but did any of us live during his time to noe tat he existed??? could the photos n facts recorded abt him been fabricated? maybe he nvr existed. albert einstein could jolly well be a fictitious character tat man made up to provide an answer to the qn on who invented the law of relativism for eg…
science said tat sth is onli considered to exist if tat sth can be touched, felt, seen, tasted or smelled. can any of us touch, feel, see, taste or smell albert einstein? since TS believe in science, then he shld not believe tat albert einstein once existed…if tats the case, then all the historical scientists may not have existed. tis leads to the qn: where then did the scientific laws n theories come from? u see, if we do not believe in a 1st cause, tis argument can go on n on 4ever. its regressive without any end. so, wad proof r we toking abt here?
TS believe in god not science.As for me i believe in science rather than the man make god easy believe system.Albert Einstein is real and from his special theory of relativity,alot of thing have been invented .and improve and better for the sake man-kind.And thru the spirit doubts mind of seeking,research and asking question.
Rather than a book that telling you it is truth and must believe it.then what happen a tiny speak in your ear.either somewhere down road their brain damage.
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Originally posted by [J]erry:
and i thought u belive in SCIENCE alot? kid
i believe in science and not God.
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God from by mythical from a book and modern man use it to con money that could lay their your hand into your pocket.sigh..
what is the need for doctor and medicine ?
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Originally posted by despondent:
hi all, wad i wanna say is is there anything on earth tat can be 100% proven??? the word “proof” has often been abused…when ppl ask for proof…wad kind of proof…i remember miracles & prophecies once said this:” public proof no way, private proof, yes , plenty…
y r we asking others to prove to us when at the end of the day, the best form of proof is personal/private experience? i ask everyone here a qn: say i am standing at a road junction full of vehicles n am hesitating whether to cross the road. now i ask u: prove to me tat if i cross the road, i wun get knock down my a vehicle. if u can prove to me, then i will cross.” how will anyone prove to me? if u cross the road urself n when u get to the other end, reply me by saying:” see? i made it to the other end. i have proven to u its safe to cross the road.” my answer to u is:” sorry, u have NOT proven to me. u have onli proven tat YOU wun get knocked down by wad abt myself? can i use ur personal experience of crossing the road safely as proof tat i will also get across safely?
the way to prove to myself of cuz is to TAKE A STEP OF FAITH n cross the road myself…it requires faith cos there is always tat one in a million chance tat one of the drivers happen to be my enemy n is waiting to knock me down when i am crossing the road even when the “green man” is flashing. likewise, how to prove to others tat God exist? there is no way we can prove 100% unless these ppl r willing to experience God themselves…cheers!!!
Even if people are willing to experience God themselves doesn't mean there is a God .
frankly speaking i hope the christian don't force people into believing if they can't even prove 100 %.
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joolead has missed my pt...my pt is yes, those theories n laws do exist how sure r we tat they realli came from a guy called albert einstein? did we exist during the discoveries of such laws n witnessed albert einstein discovering them? we noe for a fact tat these laws exist but was it realli einstein who discovered them and not some other character by another name unknown to us? then some ppl came along n say its "a;bert einstein"...can we believe them???
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prove to me 100% tat u have been the one typing all the joolead posts...i dun even noe u personally, have nvr met u so it may not have been the same joolead typing all the posts...all the posts could have been typed by diff ppl...onli u noe for urself whether u r the one who typed all the posts...
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Originally posted by Joolead:
Even if people are willing to experience God themselves doesn't mean there is a God .
frankly speaking i hope the christian don't force people into believing if they can't even prove 100 %.
no need to force.. just bring them to church and let god to the rest..
u want accept god or not, we can't help you.. u have to accept god yourself
u belive in science? joke. even science is important who created them? satan?
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so u r concluding tat for those who have experienced God, they r hallucinating? then prove to us tat we have been hallucinating...a person wif no experience wif God is telling those who have the experience tat their experience is false...tats so funny...
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n until nw...nobody has answered my qn...prove to me tat if i cross the road filled wif stationary vehicles when the green man is flashing tat none of them will suddenly move n knock me over...i am still waiting...