Is tithing a correct teaching?
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Originally posted by Chin Eng:
Not absolutely true....
according to this wiki source, shekel is primarily a measurement of weight....
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shekel
having said that, i am no expert in this area.
Money is a medium of exchange. In the Torah, Abraham bought the plot of land for 400 shekel of silver. Today, Its like saying Abraham bought the piece of land for 400 grams/kilos of silver. During Abraham time the medium of exchange is precious metal like silver. It can be said that silver is the standard currency uints during that period. u pay for your purchase in terms of units weight in silver, like our present day $. Not too long ago, the US$ is fully back by gold. i think they drop the gold standard in 1971? If i am not mistaken, the british pound also peg to weight in sterling silver, not too long ago.
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Originally posted by Chin Eng:
not sure.... you might want to take a peak at http://www.sgforums.com/forums/2436.
but not sure how active it has been recently
Thanks, i think the person is 'breytonhartge'. He is a messianic believer, they call themselves messianic Judaism. Their chief 'so call' rabbi is Tim Hegg, a protestant minister, graduated from the Northwest Baptist seminary in 1976 (M.Div) and in 1980 (Th.M). Tim Hegg also teaches his followers to Brit Milah i.e. cut kkb or kkj. i think maybe breytonhartge cut his kkb or kkj if he is fervent enough. This group also use Hebrew liturgy & symbols in their worship. They also keep the sabbath. They also teaches their gentiles followers to follow the 613 law of moses. Rabbinic and bilbical teachings does not require gentile believers to cut kkb or kkj unless he wants to convert, becomes a proselyte, change his name and becomes a Jew. Rabbinic rabbis will discourage gentile who wants to converts, not to convert but to remains as Gentile believers in Hashem. According to rabbinic teachings the 613 laws of Moses does not apply to gentile believer. Gentile believers are only obligated to follow the 7 laws of Noah. u may wish to refer to your bible Acts chapter 15 regarding this issue of brit milah for Gentiles.
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Originally posted by Chin Eng:
... the principle of tithing is for the purpose of the levites to have sustanence....
The Levites also have other means of sustanence. They were given 48 cities with surrounding pasture lands for their cattle & livestocks, among the tribes of isreal.
All the cities of the Levites in the midst of the possession of the sons of Israel were forty-eight cities with their pasture lands.
These cities each had its surrounding pasture lands; Joshua 21:41-42 NASB
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Originally posted by Creation1656:
The Levites also have other means of sustanence. They were given 48 cities with surrounding pasture lands for their cattle & livestocks, among the tribes of isreal.
All the cities of the Levites in the midst of the possession of the sons of Israel were forty-eight cities with their pasture lands.
These cities each had its surrounding pasture lands; Joshua 21:41-42 NASB
can you share a little bit more on why tithing was done, if not for the sustainence and provision for the levites....
aside from the mechanics of tithing....in your opinion, do you think that, as per the topic: is tithing a correct teaching? looking solely on the the way the topic was worded....
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Originally posted by Creation1656:
Money is a medium of exchange. In the Torah, Abraham bought the plot of land for 400 shekel of silver. Today, Its like saying Abraham bought the piece of land for 400 grams/kilos of silver. During Abraham time the medium of exchange is precious metal like silver. It can be said that silver is the standard currency uints during that period. u pay for your purchase in terms of units weight in silver, like our present day $. Not too long ago, the US$ is fully back by gold. i think they drop the gold standard in 1971? If i am not mistaken, the british pound also peg to weight in sterling silver, not too long ago.
as i'd said... it's only partially true.... it can be money and it can be a unit of weight.http://www.answers.com/topic/shekel
unless, of course, we choose to pick the definition that is the most convenient...
... such discussion really teaches one a lot of things...
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Originally posted by Creation1656:
Thanks, i think the person is 'breytonhartge'. He is a messianic believer, they call themselves messianic Judaism. Their chief 'so call' rabbi is Tim Hegg, a protestant minister, graduated from the Northwest Baptist seminary in 1976 (M.Div) and in 1980 (Th.M). Tim Hegg also teaches his followers to Brit Milah i.e. cut kkb or kkj. i think maybe breytonhartge cut his kkb or kkj if he is fervent enough. This group also use Hebrew liturgy & symbols in their worship. They also keep the sabbath. They also teaches their gentiles followers to follow the 613 law of moses. Rabbinic and bilbical teachings does not require gentile believers to cut kkb or kkj unless he wants to convert, becomes a proselyte, change his name and becomes a Jew. Rabbinic rabbis will discourage gentile who wants to converts, not to convert but to remains as Gentile believers in Hashem. According to rabbinic teachings the 613 laws of Moses does not apply to gentile believer. Gentile believers are only obligated to follow the 7 laws of Noah. u may wish to refer to your bible Acts chapter 15 regarding this issue of brit milah for Gentiles.
looks like smarty boy is not the only confused one...
i am getting slight confused too.i never knew there were so many "sects" (forgive me on this word, for the lack of a better word).
the next sentence may not come across as polite, but please understand that i mean no malice....
do all of these groupings think that they all have the "exclusive" right (you know what I mean)...
seriously, your brief explanation is really an eye opener for me, at least from the stand point of such groupings. i really never knew that...
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Originally posted by Chin Eng:
can you share a little bit more on why tithing was done, if not for the sustainence and provision for the levites....
aside from the mechanics of tithing....in your opinion, do you think that, as per the topic: is tithing a correct teaching? looking solely on the the way the topic was worded....
The main reason why the Levitical tithes is given to the Levites is for their work at the tents of meeting or at the temple. These verses can clearly explain the purpose of the tithes.
"To the sons of Levi, behold, I have given all the tithe in Israel for an inheritance, in return for their service which they perform, the service of the tent of meeting. Numbers 18:21 NASB
'You may eat it anywhere, you and your households, for it is your compensation in return for your service in the tent of meeting. Numbers 18:31 NASB
In the promised land, 3 times a year, all isrealites must come before the temple or Tabernacle to celebrate the major Feasts of the LORD. They will comsume their tithes before the LORD.
"You shall surely tithe all the produce from what you sow, which comes out of the field every year.
"You shall eat in the presence of the LORD your God, at the place where He chooses to establish His name, the tithe of your grain, your new wine, your oil, and the firstborn of your herd and your flock, so that you may learn to fear the LORD your God always. Deuteronomy 14:22-23 NASB
"Three times in a year all your males shall appear before the LORD your God in the place which He chooses, at the Feast of Unleavened Bread and at the Feast of Weeks and at the Feast of Booths, and they shall not appear before the LORD empty-handed. Deuteronomy 16:16 NASB
The Levitical tithes cannot be separated from its purpose of temple worship. The teaching of tithes is not wrong. It is the wilful mis-interpretation in the teaching of tithes by some churches that profane Hashem good name.
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Originally posted by Creation1656:
The teaching of tithes is not wrong. It is the wilful mis-interpretation in the teaching of tithes by some churches that profane Hashem good name.
thanks for your enlightening note....i have long maintained that this thread is wrongly titled....
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Originally posted by Creation1656:
The teaching of tithes is not wrong.
Thanks for your sharing and you have provided your view in answer to the title of this thread. I agree that you did shed some interesting info....
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Originally posted by Creation1656:
It is the wilful mis-interpretation in the teaching of tithes by some churches that profane Hashem good name.
Ok, and I agreed on this too. I think particularly the mega-churches which I stated in my first post.
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Originally posted by Smarty Boy:
Ok, and I agreed on this too. I think particularly the mega-churches which I stated in my first post.
I suddenly have this thought... if mega-church as it is commonly refered to because of its size (#of members, financial suppport)... then the Roman Catholic Church itself must be the biggest of all mega-church...The Anglican may be next....those "mega-church" that we refer to like NCC, CHC, FCBC, ...etc can't even "hold a candle"...
cheers....
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Originally posted by vince69:
I suddenly have this thought... if mega-church as it is commonly refered to because of its size (#of members, financial suppport)... then the Roman Catholic Church itself must be the biggest of all mega-church...The Anglican may be next....those "mega-church" that we refer to like NCC, CHC, FCBC, ...etc can't even "hold a candle"...
cheers....
Ha..ha..ha...I agree with you and I have also been asking my friends from mega-churches about this....
But you know that when one talk about mega-churches, we know roughly who they are talking about.
It seems like there are many "new" comers striving to be the next mega church and they always says they are non-denominational.....
eh....OT liao, wait police come.....
Cheers and god bless.
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Tithing is a wrong teaching.
"You cannot be the slave of both God & money. You will either hate the first & love the second or treat the first with respect & the second with scorn."
Those who tithe are breaking the 10th commandment.
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bullshit..since like that tithe to me.....
wait let me go and buy one bible novel book and read to you..then say amen must give me money (prefer Euro or USD or bristish pound or sing dollar) ho...5% of your pay can liao..other church take 10%...
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OT liao lah.
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no need OT ..shall make some video telling other you are doing charity and working for GOD can liao.lip service and some acting skill.
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Originally posted by Joolead:
no need OT ..shall make some video telling other you are doing charity and working for GOD can liao.lip service and some acting skill.
will u be directing?
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Dear bros and sis' in Christ, may I refer you to read up on 1 Corinthians 9:1-14?
"Am I not free? Am I not an apostle? Have I not seen Jesus our Lord? Are you not the result of my work in the Lord? Even though I may not be an apostle to others, surely I am to you! For you are the seal of my apostleship in the Lord.
This is my defense to those who sit in judgment on me. Don't we have the right to food and drink? Don't we have the right to take a believing wife along with us, as do the other apostles and the Lord's brothers and Cephas? Or is it only I and Barnabas who must work for a living?
Who serves as a soldier at his own expense? Who plants a vineyard and does not eat of its grapes? Who tends a flock and does not drink of the milk? Do I say this merely from a human point of view? Doesn't the Law say the same thing? For it is written in the Law of Moses: "Do not muzzle an ox while it is treading out the grain." Is it about oxen that God is concerned? Surely he says this for us, doesn't he? Yes, this was written for us, because when the plowman plows and the thresher threshes, they ought to do so in the hope of sharing in the harvest. 11If we have sown spiritual seed among you, is it too much if we reap a material harvest from you? If others have this right of support from you, shouldn't we have it all the more?
But we did not use this right. On the contrary, we put up with anything rather than hinder the gospel of Christ. Don't you know that those who work in the temple get their food from the temple, and those who serve at the altar share in what is offered on the altar? In the same way, the Lord has commanded that those who preach the gospel should receive their living from the gospel."
Nowadays, people give money to the church not only to pay the staffs, but also to maintain the church that they are in... Just that there are certain people who used these money for God and turned them to their own without guilt or shame...
Well? Any opinions?
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Originally posted by kager82:
Dear bros and sis' in Christ, may I refer you to read up on 1 Corinthians 9:1-14?
"Am I not free? Am I not an apostle? Have I not seen Jesus our Lord? Are you not the result of my work in the Lord? Even though I may not be an apostle to others, surely I am to you! For you are the seal of my apostleship in the Lord.
This is my defense to those who sit in judgment on me. Don't we have the right to food and drink? Don't we have the right to take a believing wife along with us, as do the other apostles and the Lord's brothers and Cephas? Or is it only I and Barnabas who must work for a living?
Who serves as a soldier at his own expense? Who plants a vineyard and does not eat of its grapes? Who tends a flock and does not drink of the milk? Do I say this merely from a human point of view? Doesn't the Law say the same thing? For it is written in the Law of Moses: "Do not muzzle an ox while it is treading out the grain." Is it about oxen that God is concerned? Surely he says this for us, doesn't he? Yes, this was written for us, because when the plowman plows and the thresher threshes, they ought to do so in the hope of sharing in the harvest. 11If we have sown spiritual seed among you, is it too much if we reap a material harvest from you? If others have this right of support from you, shouldn't we have it all the more?
But we did not use this right. On the contrary, we put up with anything rather than hinder the gospel of Christ. Don't you know that those who work in the temple get their food from the temple, and those who serve at the altar share in what is offered on the altar? In the same way, the Lord has commanded that those who preach the gospel should receive their living from the gospel."
Nowadays, people give money to the church not only to pay the staffs, but also to maintain the church that they are in... Just that there are certain people who used these money for God and turned them to their own without guilt or shame...
Well? Any opinions?
my opinion is.
- church small = small tithe,
- church big = big tithe.
it's simple mathematics. so why is everyone freaking out if a pastor from a big rich church is rich?
if the pastor is from a small poor church, and he's rich, then i'll worry.
- church small = small tithe,
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Originally posted by dumbdumb!:
my opinion is.
- church small = small tithe,
- church big = big tithe.
it's simple mathematics. so why is everyone freaking out if a pastor from a big rich church is rich?
if the pastor is from a small poor church, and he's rich, then i'll worry.
Hmm... In the first place, why must a church leader need so much money?
If he were to understand that worldly riches are but temporal, why hoard so much money? =)
Anyway, not to debate on how much is enough... But I'm sure the tithings are for more noble purposes and that it have to be transparent... =)
- church small = small tithe,
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Originally posted by kager82:
Hmm... In the first place, why must a church leader need so much money?
If he were to understand that worldly riches are but temporal, why hoard so much money? =)
Anyway, not to debate on how much is enough... But I'm sure the tithings are for more noble purposes and that it have to be transparent... =)
if you understand that worldly riches are but temporal, why would this issue even bother you. ;)
people who truly realise that life is just a passing cloud, or grass which is green today, but dried up tomorrow, won't be bothered by these issues. in fact, they won't even want to waste their energy in critisizing.
i agree that tithing should be transparent, in the context where, we know what each ministry is spending on, or where the money is being put to use. but if a portion of the tithe is actually the pastor or priest's salary, then i think it's not really our business how he spends his salary.
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proverty is a curse!
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Originally posted by youyayu:
proverty is a curse!
yup.
it's abit strange if God blesses a business and it folds the next day. =P
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Originally posted by dumbdumb!:
yup.
it's abit strange if God blesses a business and it folds the next day. =P
God Forsake america!
USA IS CURSED!
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Originally posted by youyayu:
God Forsake america!
USA IS CURSED!
lol..