When faith and state collide
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If you happen to find yourself in a situation whereby the state(authority) in which you are living in collides with your faith how would you take your stand?
Submit to the authority and disavowed God?
Or take a stand on what you believe and suffer the consequences?
If you think this is a bit far off think again because during Japanese occupation in world war 2, the Japanese insisted to put their little shrine in each church building and insisted for everyone to bow down to the their sun god.
I read in a testimonial book that a young Korean women decided to take her stand and lived to tell her tale. The title is: If I had to die. I have the Indonesian language version of it. You probably are not going to find it in the bookstores nowadays. it's been out for a while.
I honestly want to make my stand but I do not know whether I would be brave enough if I had to make my stand. How about you?
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Fa Lung Gong forever!!
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Factors that stops you from taking your stand.
-Good life on earth. Must live longer on earth and become old.
-No God, no heaven, no eternity mindset.
-Scared about the pain, sheet and piss that comes out when they stab you.
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You know I have a growing belief that in several countries inlcuding my own and Singapore the economy is actually run by a few small number of people who are close to power such that anyone who are viewed by the ruling regime as a rebel or opposition are denied economic opportunites afforded to other 'normal' people.
Not only on financial or economics, oppositions(for whatever reasons they are viewed such including personal beliefs) are also denied fair academic result. I am also suspicious that fair health care are provided for those viewed as opposition.
I'm saying that if someday(and probably has started to few people) your state and faith collides, you can count on closed economics opportunites and unfair academics treatment. And you can be wary of a fair health care treatment. Speaking of the devil.
In awareness of such condition or risk would you still stand on your faith? This provoke a question that Do you really believe in God? For those who do not really believe in God they would in most probability submit to authority even when that means colliding with their faith and made them disavowed their faith and God. And these [shameful, really] people who submit to evil(authority) then become a part of that evil system helping to incarcerate innocent people who actually stand by their faith.
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this is a tough one..
by right, christians should support their govt, unless they ask them to do things that is not of God.
but easier said than done. i've never been crucified before.
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Faith before state.
We are called to render unto caesar what is caesar's, and what is God's unto God's. When they collide, remember that what is caesar's is only caesar's as allowed by God.
Remember that we are called to be obedient to rulers ONLY AS an obedience to God in the first place.
Yes, when the time comes where we have to make a choice, it will be tough. That is why we must be strong in faith, and let strength not come from our own selves, but from the LORD.
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Originally posted by ChangeCanHappen:
Faith before state.
We are called to render unto caesar what is caesar's, and what is God's unto God's. When they collide, remember that what is caesar's is only caesar's as allowed by God.
Remember that we are called to be obedient to rulers ONLY AS an obedience to God in the first place.
Yes, when the time comes where we have to make a choice, it will be tough. That is why we must be strong in faith, and let strength not come from our own selves, but from the LORD.
funny ... you know those fundamentalist terrorists and suicide bombers ? ..... and chaps like mas and the fellow caught recently in indonesia ? ....
they think like just like you too ....
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Nice one Fatum ^^ I have the exact same thoughts as you :) Religion is detrimental to the advancement of human civilization, as well as a force which brainwashes millions worldwide, causing them to lose their sense of rationality.
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Originally posted by Fatum:
funny ... you know those fundamentalist terrorists and suicide bombers ? ..... and chaps like mas and the fellow caught recently in indonesia ? ....
they think like just like you too ....
How true...Without religion, the world will be a better place in the future. -
same sentiments as TS
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Originally posted by Fatum:
funny ... you know those fundamentalist terrorists and suicide bombers ? ..... and chaps like mas and the fellow caught recently in indonesia ? ....
they think like just like you too ....
Pls allow mi to said something, humans are weak that they need a faith to live on, which is religion and that's include me.
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Well, lots of J.W serve their NS in DB because of their faith.
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Originally posted by caleb_chiang:
Well, lots of J.W serve their NS in DB because of their faith.
actually if they serve in scdf, do they still hv to refuse serving NS?
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Originally posted by Midlusionz:
Pls allow mi to said something, humans are weak that they need a faith to live on, which is religion and that's include me.
my statement is not meant to diss people who have faith ... I totally agree that a religion is an important guiding light in a person's life ... many people have no other moral yardstick
but look what happens when religion becomes blind, unthinking faith ....
like this cracko here for example .... http://sgforums.com/forums/1381/topics/343664
when humanity, which religion is supposed to provide and augment, gets usurped and supplanted by religion itself, when you view your fellow man through jaundiced eyes ... what then ? ....
the only difference between crackos like these, and those cracko who drive planes into buildings, blow themselves up on trains and buses, and cut people's heads off with a carving knife, is that the former haven't strapped on a bomb .......... yet, their bigotry is exactly the same ....
now if I were a religious man, I'd say that these people have been blinded by the devil, not God ...
I loathe to imagine when their next generation would be like ....
I think many people have missed the real messages in religion ...
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Originally posted by Fatum:
my statement is not meant to diss people who have faith ... I totally agree that a religion is an important guiding light in a person's life ... many people have no other moral yardstick
but look what happens when religion becomes blind, unthinking faith ....
like this cracko here for example .... http://sgforums.com/forums/1381/topics/343664
when humanity, which religion is supposed to provide and augment, gets usurped and supplanted by religion itself, when you view your fellow man through jaundiced eyes ... what then ? ....
the only difference between crackos like these, and those cracko who drive planes into buildings, blow themselves up on trains and buses, and cut people's heads off with a carving knife, is that the former haven't strapped on a bomb .......... yet, their bigotry is exactly the same ....
now if I were a religious man, I'd say that these people have been blinded by the devil, not God ...
I loathe to imagine when their next generation would be like ....
I think many people have missed the real messages in religion ...
Sad but true.
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Originally posted by dumbdumb!:
actually if they serve in scdf, do they still hv to refuse serving NS?
Because JWs do not swear loyalty to state, hence the sentence in db. -
Originally posted by Herzog_Zwei:
Because JWs do not swear loyalty to state, hence the sentence in db.
Brave stand. I respect JWs for what they stand for but I've read and heard so many negative rumors on them. It even looks like that the Catholic church do not hold them dear as a fellow Christian.Just the day before yesterday two of them knocked on my door and left me a brochure and a phone number.
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Originally posted by Fatum:
funny ... you know those fundamentalist terrorists and suicide bombers ? ..... and chaps like mas and the fellow caught recently in indonesia ? ....
they think like just like you too ....
Oh, trust me. We're well aware of that. Fact remains, you have to choose a side, so what makes you think choosing state over faith is any better?
Had I lived in Nazi Germany, or Imperial Japan during WW2, how then would choosing state be any better? It is widely known that many of the Japs who fought and invaded countries in WW2 joined the war because they were called upon by their country, out of their cultural devotion to their emperor.
Humans will always be selfish, one way or another, it is only to what extent. So their intentions will always be self serving. Choosing State over Faith is not the solution. At least with the Christian faith, God, who is above all, desires peace so long we all live righteously.
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If one day your pastor or priest tells you that doing NS and training to kill is a sin, would you listen?
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Originally posted by Miracles&Prophecies:
Brave stand. I respect JWs for what they stand for but I've read and heard so many negative rumors on them. It even looks like that the Catholic church do not hold them dear as a fellow Christian.Just the day before yesterday two of them knocked on my door and left me a brochure and a phone number.
Nonsense stand, for they choose to purposefully misinterpret the Bible.