City Harvest Church?
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Originally posted by stellazio:
speaking in tongues..i think CHC has the most no. of people who can do that..
and once u enter, and decide to leave, you might as well change ur damn hp number.
In my opinion, being an atheist is the best option..
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can someone explain what this speaking in tongues thing is....?
i've read it in a few places. but erm.....too lazy to google lah ok.
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you should ask those CHC members, too many of em seems to know how to do it.
dun even get me started on the monetary part.
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Originally posted by udontknowme:
can someone explain what this speaking in tongues thing is....?
i've read it in a few places. but erm.....too lazy to google lah ok.
hmm, christians generally believe that the gifts of the holy spirit, one of the most common one is tongues.
u know the jews have this candlestand with 7 or 9 candles on it? it's symbolizing the different gifts of the spirit. and u use one candle to light the other candles. that candle lighting the rest, symbolize the gifts of tongues. tts what my mentor shared la.
speaking in tongues happened during the book of Acts, when Jesus was still alive, he told his disciples to remain in the city, and wait for the councillor whom he will send to them. he said he will not leave them as orphans, but send someone to be with them. that was the holy spirit
so one day the disciples were praying, then suddenly tongues of fire appear
and came onto the disciples, and they started speaking in a different language.
there are generally 2 types of tongues, one of which is human language - the ability to speak another language without having learnt it before, and another is utterance and groans. because in the bible, it is also said, that the holy spirit will intercede for us, pray for us in groans (citation needed)
so ya lor. i can testify tongues are real, because my dad could speak it, without having heard of it, or even know what it's about.
one night he was praying over my sis (new believer), suddenly he started uttering noises. he never knew what was tongues at that point of time. until our cell leader explained to us what happened to him.
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C'mon lets all speak in tongues
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Originally posted by fairlady_xoxo:
C'mon lets all speak in tongues
many speak in forked tongues..... -
Originally posted by dumbdumb!:
hmm, christians generally believe that the gifts of the holy spirit, one of the most common one is tongues.
u know the jews have this candlestand with 7 or 9 candles on it? it's symbolizing the different gifts of the spirit. and u use one candle to light the other candles. that candle lighting the rest, symbolize the gifts of tongues. tts what my mentor shared la.
speaking in tongues happened during the book of Acts, when Jesus was still alive, he told his disciples to remain in the city, and wait for the councillor whom he will send to them. he said he will not leave them as orphans, but send someone to be with them. that was the holy spirit
so one day the disciples were praying, then suddenly tongues of fire appear
and came onto the disciples, and they started speaking in a different language.
there are generally 2 types of tongues, one of which is human language - the ability to speak another language without having learnt it before, and another is utterance and groans. because in the bible, it is also said, that the holy spirit will intercede for us, pray for us in groans (citation needed)
so ya lor. i can testify tongues are real, because my dad could speak it, without having heard of it, or even know what it's about.
one night he was praying over my sis (new believer), suddenly he started uttering noises. he never knew what was tongues at that point of time. until our cell leader explained to us what happened to him.
personally, i have no issue with speaking in tongues,i do, however, have issues with people who insist in the superiority of this gift, or the overemphasis of speaking in tongues....
interestingly, Paul has waterdowned the importance of this gift.
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Originally posted by dumbdumb!:
hur hur hur - alot of ppl say prosperity gospel isn't scriptural, can u explain further?
i didn't know they sued their own member.. tts.. kinda against what the bible teaches right, it's not right to take another brother to court, since all of us will judge angels, surely we are capable of judging what is right
too many points to comment, but wiki has a good write up...http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prosperity_theology
also, too close a relationship with too many practitioners of such movements have very dodgy dealings and ludicrious proclamations.
... the suing thing? well documented..... even in the local papers.
++++ my favourite bugbear, the way CHC handled their talentless media-whore mrs kong.... it reckon it's because of the glaring media focus that resulted in her leaving the church leadership and dropping the title of rev before her name....
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Originally posted by dumbdumb!:
i tink u... better read the entire passage and see what was really going on, you just quoted the verse out of context.
clue: being rich or not has nothing to do with salvation
actually, i don't think dave was referring to salvation in itself. all he is pointing out is that from the standpoint of these verses, it seems that it is more difficult for the rich to enter the kingdom of God than the poor because the poor has nothing to clutch to, while the rich can also be held by their wealth, just like the young ruler that the verses were directed to. -
Originally posted by Chin Eng:
hi dave.... how was "O" levels? trying for ACJC??it must be stated that "wealth" in itself is not the issue, and reality is, nowhere in the Bible does it espouse the need to live in poverty.
both the passages quoted by dave are similar.
the context is not: wealth is bad...
the context is: is wealth so important that you cannot give it up...
im aiming ajc. Its very near my house, whencompared to acjc. I can save more than 1hr a day on transport. �少�多. it becomes alot in the long run. can use it for sleeping, studying etc. And it would also be easier to commit more in CCAs if your live near school. Im 4 mrt stops away.
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Originally posted by Chin Eng:
actually, i don't think dave was referring to salvation in itself. all he is pointing out is that from the standpoint of these verses, it seems that it is more difficult for the rich to enter the kingdom of God than the poor because the poor has nothing to clutch to, while the rich can also be held by their wealth, just like the young ruler that the verses were directed to.yeah man. The standpoint yo.
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Originally posted by Chin Eng:
to me you have just descibed CHC........ suing a church member when a member made negative comments....
... until recently, the church was controlled by one man ... and his glamour puss wife...
... the "prosperity gospel" is questionable at best.... and has very few scriptural support...
... the "word-faith" doctrine is not very far from the "prosperity gospel"...
Wow...how about NCC then...same?
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Originally posted by Chin Eng:
(1) The bible said it, but it's not specifically about money. It can be your sacrifice, your time, your skills....Hinn will always only go the money way...
(2) In the first place, why should Christians desire to give more money in order to blessed with (specifically) riches??? Where in the Bible is that stated? Isn't that greed?
To me, it goes against the grain of Biblical teachings to desire wealth.
(1) Cannot agree with you more....
(2) Because they play with the human emotions and psychology (to want more) by twisting the Bible messages..... They have a few quotes and it is in the bible (wrong context to us though).
Example, I once read someone who said that when Jesus asked Simon (Peter) to cast his net into the sea and pull it out, it was full of fishes.....but ignore the fact later that Jesus said he wants Simon to be "fisher of men". They said it was a proof that God wants us to be rich and will reward us with riches if we follow Jesus....just that they use fishes instead of notes at that time.....
You termed it as GREED....but they have a "better" word for it - "GRACE" ministry - same 5 letters G word.
Beside the teaching of Greed (oops Grace...?) they also have many other dubious teachings....so it is good that people should really think tiwce and search before going....
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Originally posted by Smarty Boy:
Wow...how about NCC then...same?
in many ways NCC, as well as FCBC are not very different.look at the structure.... there's Joseph Prince and Lawrence Khong... go to their website and you will see these peoples face prominent shown.... like they are the center of attraction.
.... even secular companies do not do that to their CEOs.
.... but would i really classify them as cults??? not really... because these organisations are cautious enough to thread on safer grounds before really crossing the line.
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Originally posted by stellazio:
speaking in tongues..i think CHC has the most no. of people who can do that..
and once u enter, and decide to leave, you might as well change ur damn hp number.
I used to go CHC and I am very happy that I no longer goes there......but going there is a great help to me because I realised what God is to me (at least personally) and what He is not.
When I stopped going, I did not need to change my HP.......heng ah.... BUT they have someone coming to my house everyweek to visit my 5 years old!
Luckily, I decided to move house and that's the end of CHC for me - Thanks God!
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Originally posted by Chin Eng:
in many ways NCC, as well as FCBC are not very different.look at the structure.... there's Joseph Prince and Lawrence Khong... go to their website and you will see these peoples face prominent shown.... like they are the center of attraction.
.... even secular companies do not do that to their CEOs.
.... but would i really classify them as cults??? not really... because these organisations are cautious enough to thread on safer grounds before really crossing the line.
I just wonder what would happen if JP, LK or KH leaves.......I know that there was some rummours mongers spreading that JP is leaving NCC which lead them to threatened to sue the rummour monger (which I think they never found out who)......Why would anyone leaving the church be a problem if God is the boss?
It seems like they function based on 1 man's vision and interpretation of the Bible and many of them seems more interested in "pastor worhsip" than worshipping God.....maybe I am wrong but that's the feeling I got from people who goes there....
The other thing is that it seems like the pastors never need training at all....all one need to know is to say "God spoke to me".....and worst, some have set up their own school to teach their brand faith......
How much more is needed to " really crossing the line" ? I wonder.....
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Originally posted by Smarty Boy:
I just wonder what would happen if JP, LK or KH leaves.......I know that there was some rummours mongers spreading that JP is leaving NCC which lead them to threatened to sue the rummour monger (which I think they never found out who)......Why would anyone leaving the church be a problem if God is the boss?
It seems like they function based on 1 man's vision and interpretation of the Bible and many of them seems more interested in "pastor worhsip" than worshipping God.....maybe I am wrong but that's the feeling I got from people who goes there....
The other thing is that it seems like the pastors never need training at all....all one need to know is to say "God spoke to me".....and worst, some have set up their own school to teach their brand faith......
How much more is needed to " really crossing the line" ? I wonder.....
... which is why sometimes, it is better to go to churches that has a larger umbrella on top. such church organisations practice pastor-rotation to prevent pastor worshipping.... credentials is not really a priority in mega-churches. some of these leaders do not even have orthodox theological training. a couple of yrs back, when Sun Ho was known as Rev Ho Yeow Sun (clearly stated in the website) I wondered where she received her theological training... it seems that the "Rev" title was used rather loosely.
... criticism of church leaders is also a taboo thing... after all nobody criticise the God-ordained... which lead me to ask.... who said that they were "God-ordained"???
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cheecye la CHC.
STEAL MONEY LIAO.
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Originally posted by Babelfish:
In my opinion, being an atheist is the best option..
haha in my opinion.. it doesn't matter
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Originally posted by yourmotherrr:
cheecye la CHC.
STEAL MONEY LIAO.
that's so random
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Originally posted by Chin Eng:
... which is why sometimes, it is better to go to churches that has a larger umbrella on top. such church organisations practice pastor-rotation to prevent pastor worshipping.... credentials is not really a priority in mega-churches. some of these leaders do not even have orthodox theological training. a couple of yrs back, when Sun Ho was known as Rev Ho Yeow Sun (clearly stated in the website) I wondered where she received her theological training... it seems that the "Rev" title was used rather loosely.
... criticism of church leaders is also a taboo thing... after all nobody criticise the God-ordained... which lead me to ask.... who said that they were "God-ordained"???
I fully agree with you that it is better to go to a main stream Churches whatever the denomination may be.....where the priests and pastors are properly trained and rotated among the various Churches.....
Self proclaimed pastors really cheapened the title of pastor and is very unfair to pastors who are trained and who are really out to serve God and not to get rich quick.
Everybody can claimed that they are ordained by God including you and me....
but at least you and I do not always have to start or end anything by saying "God spoke to me" and "Give me a strong amen".....just to show how insecure they are....
Wonder why so many young people get sucked into this greedy prosperity gospel thing.....
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Originally posted by Smarty Boy:
... Wonder why so many young people get sucked into this greedy prosperity gospel thing.....
The music is good, the preacher is entertaining, the people are friendly and you get to hear what you want to hear (wealth, health, name it-claim it, guaranteed place in heaven). What more can one ask for, right ?
But on a more serious note, many in the congregation are actually very good people sincerely wanting a good relationship with God. It's just sad that they are being presented a warped view of Christianity.
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Originally posted by Omnia:
The music is good, the preacher is entertaining, the people are friendly and you get to hear what you want to hear (wealth, health, name it-claim it, guaranteed place in heaven). What more can one ask for, right ?
But on a more serious note, many in the congregation are actually very good people sincerely wanting a good relationship with God. It's just sad that they are being presented a warped view of Christianity.
actually. i don't like all their music.
i think i've developed a taste for.. quiet and reverent worship
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Originally posted by dumbdumb!:
actually. i don't like all their music.
i think i've developed a taste for.. quiet and reverent worship
oh? something like the Catholic Mass and the Presbyterian Church Service?
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Originally posted by Omnia:
The music is good, the preacher is entertaining, the people are friendly and you get to hear what you want to hear (wealth, health, name it-claim it, guaranteed place in heaven). What more can one ask for, right ?
But on a more serious note, many in the congregation are actually very good people sincerely wanting a good relationship with God. It's just sad that they are being presented a warped view of Christianity.
Yes I agree with you.....the music is performed by a "rock band" and not a choir like ours and at chc, kh joined in the performances as well.....very entertaining.
And I agree that many people there are good people including my friends who brought me there.....but they get misguided after a while.....
The biggest issue for me personally is that they get misguided after a while but will not realised and will not consider what others said. As we have seen in various forums, they keep quoting the bible out of context and their cell group keep reinforcing the wrong things......just sad.....