City Harvest Church?
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End of world is near
Soon the last trumpet
will be sound off
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Originally posted by youyayu:
What is 10% when God sents his only son to die for my sins?
It is a foul 10% if taken and misused. The giver will be blessed but the taker will be... idk, ask God what he does to people who take that kind of money and misuse it. -
Originally posted by noahnoah:
End of world is near
Soon the last trumpet
will be sound off
Already? but i haven't even lost my virginity yet!?! Quick! I must go forth and multiply! :p -
The Bible's stand on wealth and "financial breakthroughs" is clear.
Matthew 19:24 and Luke 18:25,repeated for emphasis
"And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God."
Matthew 6:19-21,
""Do not lay up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moth and rust destroy and where thieves break in and steal; but lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust destroys and where thieves do not break in and steal."
Philippains 3:18-19,
"For many walk, of whom I have told you often, and now tell you even weeping, that they are enemies of the cross of Christ: whose end is destruction, whose god is their belly, and whose glory is their shame- who SET THEIR MIND ON EARTHLY THINGS."
In another of his epistles, Paul warns of the danger of twisting our gospel preachings to make for more sweet hearing for unsaved ears. Galatians 1:10,
"For do I now persuade men, or God? Or do I seek to please men? For if I still pleased men, I would not be a bondservant of God."
In no way should we skew our gospel to conform to the world. In all ways we should seek to conform ourselves to the image of Christ. It is dangerous to run a church based pseudo-Christian beliefs.
Clearly it seems to me, city harvest is preaching a distorted version of the bible. Their very own version. Maybe they should start their own religion.
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The fraud benny hinn is coming to city harvest on the weekend of november 22nd. This is an article recently dated 22 July 2008. IMHO, he should be in jail and locked up for the rest of his life. http://www.religionnewsblog.com/2180...-blessing-scam Many so-called ‘Christian’ preachers go to great lengths to separate their followers from their money. The latest reported ‘prosperity’ scam was reportedly committed by Todd Koontz, a guest speaker at the recent Benny Hinn “Miracle Crusade� in South Africa. Apparently, in exchange for a gift of $1,000, 500 believers would receive an “exceptional blessing�. According to Koontz the blessing would be “poured out for only two minutes.� ‘God bless your credit card’ Johannesburg - God’s blessing would last only two minutes and it would create 500 churchgoing millionaires or even billionaires - all they had to do was use their credit cards to pay $1 000 in offerings to televangelist Benny Hinn. Pastor Tommie Ferreira of the AGS Church in Johannesburg was so upset about the “blessing� that, after a week, he wanted to know who of the donors actually had become millionaires. Ferreira told Rapport he did not mean to bring about Hinn’s downfall. He merely wanted to know if any of the hundreds of churchgoers who donated amounts of up to $1 000 (about R7 500) to Hinn’s Miracle Crusade last week Saturday had now become millionaires. About 18 000 people streamed to the Coca-Cola Dome in Randburg to hear Hinn’s message of healing and miracles. Ferreira, who is a keen choir singer, voluntarily sang in the Miracle Crusade’s choir. He said one of Hinn’s American guest speakers, Pastor Todd Koontz, spoke about financial burdens and said 500 audience members would receive “an exceptional blessing�. “He said the service would yield millionaires and billionaires within 24 hours. “Everyone had to donate $1 000 because an exceptional blessing rested on $1 000.� Koontz apparently really had the congregation scrambling when he said, “This blessing will be poured out for only two minutes.� Ferreira said: “People stormed to the front - poor people, rich people, people from all sections of our society.� Hinn’s co-pastors apparently had credit-card machines ready with which they could take donations. “He (Koontz) said God would bless the people’s credit cards and they would be able to rule over South Africa with their money. Eventually there were no fewer than 1 000 people who made such donations.� According to Ferreira’s calculations, Hinn must have collected millions of rands with these donations - perhaps more than R7m if each of the 1 000 church-goers donated $1 000 in the hope of becoming millionaires. Furthermore, after Koontz’s collection of the $1 000 donations, Hinn collected general donations. Dr Sarel Smit of the AGS church Lofstad in Hursthill, Johannesburg, who supported Ferreira as he spoke to Rapport, was equally worried about the method by which Hinn collected donations. “Especially at a time like this when there is dire need, people run the risk of losing their faith in the Lord in this way. God will provide for your needs, but not your greed.� Rapport spoke to an employee in Hinn’s South African office in Durban who said on Friday morning that they were still busy collecting money.
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originally posted by bored:
...benny hinn is coming to city harvest on the weekend of november 22nd.
Many so-called ‘Christian’ preachers go to great lengths to separate their followers from their money.
The latest reported ‘prosperity’ scam was reportedly committed by Todd Koontz, a guest speaker at the recent Benny Hinn “Miracle Crusade” in South Africa.
Apparently, in exchange for a gift of $1,000, 500 believers would receive an “exceptional blessing”. According to Koontz the blessing would be “poured out for only two minutes.”
‘God bless your credit card’
Johannesburg – God’s blessing would last only two minutes and it would create 500 churchgoing millionaires or even billionaires – all they had to do was use their credit cards to pay $1 000 in offerings to televangelist Benny Hinn.On 22nd Nov, it will be interesting to see how many CHC members will have their credit cards, bank books, wallets etc blessed by the god of the NT for $1000.
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i've personally been to chc a few times for preaches and special events, and i have to say that they really put emphasis on the two words - "money" and "party". Nevermind what everyone says, it simply did not feel like a church at all. I've questioned friends who went there on a regular basis, "Do you go chc because it looks fun, or because you want to a further understanding of christianity?" And although i do get answers like, "Of course it's for Christianity", i am never convinced. How can i? When the whole church looks and feels like a disco?
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i bet 80% of CHC members wont last 3 months in a conservative church. So much for devotion
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Bored, I suggest you take a look too around the world. You will find many "disco" churches around, if I could use your terms. It does not feel like a church to you, but then again, your feelings are ultimately a matter of perspectives, no distinct right or wrong. Yea?
In your earlier post you mentioned city harvest preaches a distorted version of the bible. So, what is this distorted version of the bible? Care to share with us? You quoted well with your verses. But do also remember, anyone can read verses and subject themselves to their own perceptions of it. The important thing to note is we are at peace in God with our perceptions, and that these same perceptions are in line with the commandments of God.
HyperionDCZ, based on your comment, I really think you have an issue with CHC. I would wonder if it was antagonism or based on pure facts. No one adapts to any church just like that. It is important to find your own church, one whom you can flow with God's vision for it, and remain rooted in it. Devotion is not based on the type of church you are placed in. Devotion first comes from the heart, then in the commitment towards the church you are comfortable in. -.-"'Creation1656, you are another person who can quote really well. Unfortunately I have to disagree with your views on Tithe. Yes, the purpose of "tithe" mentioned in Leviticus (or Malachi since you did not state clearly) may, according to you, may be for temple worship. However, please also find that the word tithe, is mentioned in the bible as early as Genesis in 14:20, where King Melchizedek gave, directly to Abram, a "tithe of all". And, btw, check out http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tithe for its definition too. Even a "secular" "dictionary" could understand how tithes come about. So, I find it difficult to believe that "tithes", are reserved for temple worship only. And, btw, we are living in the 21st century, not in the OT leh. God's word is the same yesterday, today and tomorrow. So, I find it difficult to understand also, your stand that we need to know the true meaning of tithing. Further, you quoted Levi and referred to its context. But, I feel you also need to see it in context of today's world la. And, a small point, but why do you keep referring God with Hashem. Is your revelation of God only Hashem that you find it difficult to use "God" instead? Sorry, I just find that typing 3 letters seem simpler. Heh.
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Originally posted by o0xander0o:
hey, guys, if you have not yet to grasp the facts in the bible of who Jesus is during his earthly ministry then don't use any of it.
Jesus is the Son of God, (everyone who believe knows) But Jesus was a carpenter before his ministry got started. at that point of time, carpentry is considered as one of the professional jobs if brought into modern context. Seamless was His robe that he wore, and if the robe is not precious or expensive, why would the roman soldiers cast lot over it?
all of his disciples were rich men, fishermens, unlike now, they were professionals. and same goes to the rest. when Jesus told the disciples to feed the congregation or the crowd of thousands, have he thought of it" will they have the money to pay for it?", No, He just gave the orders to do so. because he knew that they have the money to do so.
Our God is heaven is El Shaddai, God of all sufficiency, or simple said, God of more than enough. He is never El "Cheapo". so Don't you dare go around and claim that christian should be poor or living a just enough lifestyle. if Abraham have so much of property and herds that he cannot stay in the same land as his nephew Lot, then we of the modern world of today should use all our creativity to think of being the "head and not the tail" being a leader in the society now! instead of whinning or mocking at something that you will never get to establish, why not do something constructive to your future and for your children and your children's children.
and if you claim that christian's should not want to have material wealth, then tommorrow, first thing in the morning, go sell your every thing and give everything away and try to live a non material life.. i can say not even 3 days you will not be able to take it. in this material world, you want to say something, you got to be a someone in your net worth, only then people want to listen.
understand the facts and the reality of this broken world now! open your eyes to see now.
and don't verbally abuse the church, when you don't see the real things happening.
correct me if im wrong.....there was a rich ass who loved wat jc teached...n went on toblock jc passage to ask him wat cld be done to get his ass in paradise..jc ask him to sell all his stuff n donate it away...hmm...n u made jc sounds like he only mingle with rich professionals...take into consideration economy 2000++ years ago is very different den nw too..
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Originally posted by Rafeash:
However, please also find that the word tithe, is mentioned in the bible as early as Genesis in 14:20, where King Melchizedek gave, directly to Abram, a "tithe of all".
Hi Rafeash, since u brought up Genesis 14:20, i would like to give u a cut n paste answer from this christian website:
http://www.tithingdebate.com/DeJongRebuttal.html
KELLY: DeJong is placing words into Abraham’s mouth which are not found in Scripture. From my essay:
For the following reasons, Genesis 14:20 cannot be used as an example for Christians to tithe. (1) The Bible does not say that Abraham "freely" gave this tithe. (2) Abraham’s gift was NOT a holy tithe from God’s holy land gathered by God’s holy people under God’s holy Old Covenant. (3) Abraham’s tithe was only from pagan spoils of war common to many nations. (4) In Numbers 31, God only required 1% of spoils of war. (5) Abraham’s tithe to Melchizedek was a one-time recorded event. (6) Abraham’s tithe was not from his own personal property. (7) Abraham kept nothing for himself; he gave everything back. (8) Abraham’s tithe is not quoted anywhere in the Bible to endorse tithing. (9) Genesis 14, verse 21, is the key text. Since most commentaries explain verse 21 as an example of pagan Arab tradition, it is contradictory to explain the 90% of verse 21 as pagan, while insisting that the 10% of verse 20 was God’s will. (10) If Abraham is an example for Christians to give 10% to God, then he should also be an example for Christians to give the other 90% to Satan, or to the king of Sodom! (11) Since neither Abraham nor Jacob had a Levitical priesthood to support, they had no place to bring tithes and probably left food for the poor at their altars.
And, a small point, but why do you keep referring God with Hashem. Is your revelation of God only Hashem that you find it difficult to use "God" instead? Sorry, I just find that typing 3 letters seem simpler. Heh.
We refers to G-d as Hashem cos we dun want to transgress Hashem commandment:
'You shall not take the name of the LORD your God in vain, for the LORD will not leave him unpunished who takes His name in vain. Deu 5:11 (NASB).
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My friends always tell me they join City Harvest Church to know gals...
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Originally posted by Q.C.Pak:
My friends always tell me they join City Harvest Church to know gals...
true.. really there alot of girls...
but.. after a long time there.. u will have to different feeling
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Originally posted by Rafeash:
Bored, I suggest you take a look too around the world. You will find many "disco" churches around, if I could use your terms. It does not feel like a church to you, but then again, your feelings are ultimately a matter of perspectives, no distinct right or wrong. Yea?
In your earlier post you mentioned city harvest preaches a distorted version of the bible. So, what is this distorted version of the bible? Care to share with us? You quoted well with your verses. But do also remember, anyone can read verses and subject themselves to their own perceptions of it. The important thing to note is we are at peace in God with our perceptions, and that these same perceptions are in line with the commandments of God.
HyperionDCZ, based on your comment, I really think you have an issue with CHC. I would wonder if it was antagonism or based on pure facts. No one adapts to any church just like that. It is important to find your own church, one whom you can flow with God's vision for it, and remain rooted in it. Devotion is not based on the type of church you are placed in. Devotion first comes from the heart, then in the commitment towards the church you are comfortable in. -.-"'Creation1656, you are another person who can quote really well. Unfortunately I have to disagree with your views on Tithe. Yes, the purpose of "tithe" mentioned in Leviticus (or Malachi since you did not state clearly) may, according to you, may be for temple worship. However, please also find that the word tithe, is mentioned in the bible as early as Genesis in 14:20, where King Melchizedek gave, directly to Abram, a "tithe of all". And, btw, check out http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tithe for its definition too. Even a "secular" "dictionary" could understand how tithes come about. So, I find it difficult to believe that "tithes", are reserved for temple worship only. And, btw, we are living in the 21st century, not in the OT leh. God's word is the same yesterday, today and tomorrow. So, I find it difficult to understand also, your stand that we need to know the true meaning of tithing. Further, you quoted Levi and referred to its context. But, I feel you also need to see it in context of today's world la. And, a small point, but why do you keep referring God with Hashem. Is your revelation of God only Hashem that you find it difficult to use "God" instead? Sorry, I just find that typing 3 letters seem simpler. Heh.
well said
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Originally posted by youyayu:
true.. really there alot of girls...
but.. after a long time there.. u will have to different feeling
"u will have to different feeling" means wat sia?
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Originally posted by Q.C.Pak:
"u will have to different feeling" means wat sia?u will get sick of those girls and then see guys
LOL
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Originally posted by youyayu:
u will get sick of those girls and then see guys
LOL
o....that's a serious society issue currently on Earth
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I in chc for 6 years
ex member..
u mean ppl go there jus to know
girls
then better drop the freaking idea
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hmm. last friday, my cell leader and some members went to attend the benny hinn sermon, i think all of them went there hungry to listen to God's words, but after seeing nothing but entertainment and fashion shows.. they decided it was a waste of time and left. lol.
but he says that, maybe it's because they're trying to reach out to the pop culture, and that's their tactic, but i guess it's not for everyone.
then i heard something about if you give more, u get "special blessing" etc..
what's that about? i didn't go.
so anyway, he was sharing with us his experience la, so we had a discussion about it, and one of the older uncle was sharing with us about this ang mo preacher who invited gangster bikers to his church, they were all puffing and smoking and swearing away. most ppl would be shocked at that, wondering why ppl smoke during sermon etc. but he accomodated them, so that at least, they got chance to listen to the gospel.
so yeah. tts what we discussed today during small group
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Originally posted by dumbdumb!:
hmm. last friday, my cell leader and some members went to attend the benny hinn sermon, i think all of them went there hungry to listen to God's words, but after seeing nothing but entertainment and fashion shows.. they decided it was a waste of time and left. lol.
but he says that, maybe it's because they're trying to reach out to the pop culture, and that's their tactic, but i guess it's not for everyone.
then i heard something about if you give more, u get "special blessing" etc..
what's that about? i didn't go.
the sermon is after those tupid fashion shows..
i myself is sick of them doing all this bo liao things -.-
see liao also sian
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Originally posted by youyayu:
the sermon is after those tupid fashion shows..
i myself is sick of them doing all this bo liao things -.-
see liao also sian
lol, my cell decided to go attend the benny hinn sermon instead of our regular cell, but i wasn't in the mood for poppy music etc so i opt not to go.
hahaha. my cgl was saying he was ushered to the front seat somemore, so he thought "wah! blessing to be in front", lol then i guess he was abit disappointed and his neck was cramping also, having to look up.
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Originally posted by dumbdumb!:
lol, my cell decided to go attend the benny hinn sermon instead of our regular cell, but i wasn't in the mood for poppy music etc so i opt not to go.
hahaha. my cgl was saying he was ushered to the front seat somemore, so he thought "wah! blessing to be in front", lol then i guess he was abit disappointed and his neck was cramping also, having to look up.
... untill now i prefer seats in the middle.. too infront not good.. i last time sit infront i kena hit by camera 4 time in a service.. =.=
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Originally posted by youyayu:
... untill now i prefer seats in the middle.. too infront not good.. i last time sit infront i kena hit by camera 4 time in a service.. =.=
i like to sit in the front row lehnow sit nowhere liao
LoL but at home
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Originally posted by youyayu:
... untill now i prefer seats in the middle.. too infront not good.. i last time sit infront i kena hit by camera 4 time in a service.. =.=
haha.. i sat in the front row during one of their easter celebration. really awesome.
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Originally posted by noahnoah:
i like to sit in the front row lehnow sit nowhere liao
LoL but at home
not in jurong leh..
expo that 1 leh.. the camera.. like =.= always hit me