City Harvest Church?
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Even though CHC stands with a tremendous amount of membership, we cannot deny that many of them come with the wrong intention and were fed with the wrong information about Christianity. At the same time, people who invited Christ into their lives did it on the wrong basis.
Being a Christian does not mean you will have a good life on Earth. Even if you are forgiven all sins, doesn't mean you are not going to be punished for the wrong deeds.
Being a Christian does not mean you can ask God for anything and you shall get it if you pray hard enough. foo all things go according to God's will.
Do not associate tithing with getting something in return as CHC has never failed to portray. How can anyone bargain with God to buy his blessings with our worthless tithes.
Being a Christian can be rich but not with finance reaped through deceit.
The bible has explained step by step on the right way to speak in tongues. The tongues spoken in CHC does not coincide with what the bible says. And yet the leaders were still encouraging the wrong use of tongues.
Dear all, please do not think that CHC represents Christianity. In fact, CHC does not represent Christianity at all. The number of converts who came to Christ with questionable basis do not represent the success of CHC. Please kindly find out about Christianity and not via one bad example to determine what Christianity is. Otherwise you are not doing yourself a favour by depriving yourself of the true word of Christ.
BTW I was an ex member with CHC.
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Originally posted by youyayu:
souless
liddat, is insulting other people's beliefs already
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Originally posted by MS:
Even though CHC stands with a tremendous amount of membership, we cannot deny that many of them come with the wrong intention and were fed with the wrong information about Christianity. At the same time, people who invited Christ into their lives did it on the wrong basis.
Being a Christian does not mean you will have a good life on Earth. Even if you are forgiven all sins, doesn't mean you are not going to be punished for the wrong deeds.
Being a Christian does not mean you can ask God for anything and you shall get it if you pray hard enough. foo all things go according to God's will.
Do not associate tithing with getting something in return as CHC has never failed to portray. How can anyone bargain with God to buy his blessings with our worthless tithes.
Being a Christian can be rich but not with finance reaped through deceit.
The bible has explained step by step on the right way to speak in tongues. The tongues spoken in CHC does not coincide with what the bible says. And yet the leaders were still encouraging the wrong use of tongues.
Dear all, please do not think that CHC represents Christianity. In fact, CHC does not represent Christianity at all. The number of converts who came to Christ with questionable basis do not represent the success of CHC. Please kindly find out about Christianity and not via one bad example to determine what Christianity is. Otherwise you are not doing yourself a favour by depriving yourself of the true word of Christ.
BTW I was an ex member with CHC.
ya ya, thats what i am trying to say
some christians are like, think that they are 'higer classed' than the other non-christians, know what i mean?
luckily none of my christian friends are liddat sia
like kids in CHC are brainwashed with the mindset that, if you join them (not the religion, but the church) you will enjoy a good life, and you will get to know lots of girls
and joining the church makes them think they are 'christians' already
and the kids i am referring to, are <18
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Originally posted by Karma88:
i`m a free thinker .Make fun of that .
Ok, free thinker hor...since they worship no gods in their lives, so when they die in the future, they get raped by the rest of the other free thinker spirits lor.
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Originally posted by parn:
Ok, free thinker hor...since they worship no gods in their lives, so when they die in the future, they get raped by the rest of the other free thinker spirits lor.liddat also can, lol
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One thing it's true for people who goes to church, they are sinners.
People who have sinned goes to church to seek for redemption. People who goes to church and act guai and perfect are indeed the most evil ones of all. Many guys go to church to seek and tackle girls, these guys goes to the church for the wrong reasons.
It's true that Christians will have their sins forgiven by GOD when they die. BUT they will still need to pay for their sins when they are ALIVE. So this is absolutely no horse run for people who does evil after they have accepted Christ.
As for the money part, it's very true that most churches...in fact all of the churches which I have the luxury of attending, are all greedy churches. But think of it as a temptation trap setup by the devil to destroy your very newfound faith in Christ when your faith in Christ is still in an infant stage. New Christians with little faith in Christ has very little hope to guard against the discouraging plans of the devil to break the bonds between you and Christianity. I'm well-aware of this temption and I always take every single evil/bad things that others have done onto me as a challenge to gain stronger faith in Christ.
In SgForums, I have no trouble finding trouble-makers easily who can flame me, insult me or ridiculed me. But it is always up to me if I can stand firm to my own faith and beliefs at such critical times. Should I forgive them? Should I allow myself to be upset by them? Should I even feel bad about myself just because these people have the intentions to offend?
The answer that I'm going to give you all is "NO".
Why not? It's the perfect opportunity for me to express my graces and practise forgiveness.
I know my faith in my GOD is true and GOD has always loved me, even before I believed in HIM.
So it doesn't matter to me when I am going to die and I will gladly go to HELL if GOD needs me to be in HELL for his greater glory.
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Originally posted by MS:
Even though CHC stands with a tremendous amount of membership, we cannot deny that many of them come with the wrong intention and were fed with the wrong information about Christianity. At the same time, people who invited Christ into their lives did it on the wrong basis.
Being a Christian does not mean you will have a good life on Earth. Even if you are forgiven all sins, doesn't mean you are not going to be punished for the wrong deeds.
Being a Christian does not mean you can ask God for anything and you shall get it if you pray hard enough. foo all things go according to God's will.
Do not associate tithing with getting something in return as CHC has never failed to portray. How can anyone bargain with God to buy his blessings with our worthless tithes.
Being a Christian can be rich but not with finance reaped through deceit.
The bible has explained step by step on the right way to speak in tongues. The tongues spoken in CHC does not coincide with what the bible says. And yet the leaders were still encouraging the wrong use of tongues.
Dear all, please do not think that CHC represents Christianity. In fact, CHC does not represent Christianity at all. The number of converts who came to Christ with questionable basis do not represent the success of CHC. Please kindly find out about Christianity and not via one bad example to determine what Christianity is. Otherwise you are not doing yourself a favour by depriving yourself of the true word of Christ.
BTW I was an ex member with CHC.
I have to agree if a person came to church and not know Jesus, it's of no benefit to him. And worst, taking the church as a hunting ground.I don't know about their tongue practice so no comment...
for all things go according to God's will... May i know what is the Will of God to you?
This phase appeared many times in the new testiment.
regards
p.s By the way i believe there's no higher class or lower class christian, only christians who understand Jesus or not. Going to church doesn't make you a christian.
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Parn, there's a verse written in the bible: "all have sinned and fall short of God's Glory." Everyone of us is a sinner, no one is not a sinner.
with regards to your second point, there are some people who go to church for the wrong reasons. but please let God handle them.
third point:All who accepted Jesus Christ as their saviour have their sins forgiven. in this life. and Jesus has paid the price for our sins..with his blood and his life.
I pray for you as well..
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Originally posted by parn:
So it doesn't matter to me when I am going to die and I will gladly go to HELL if GOD needs me to be in HELL for his greater glory.
You do not know what you are asking for.... tread lightly..
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Originally posted by SingaporeMacross:
You do not know what you are asking for.... tread lightly..
I stand firm behind my conviction. Would you like you join me?It's rude to deny me the benefits of the doubt....if you're also a Christian.
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Originally posted by parn:
I stand firm behind my conviction. Would you like you join me?It's rude to deny me the benefits of the doubt....if you're also a Christian.
Hell is eternal separation from God. He does not need us there. Besides, He doesn't send us to hell. We do. -
Originally posted by [illvsion revived]:
I have to agree if a person came to church and not know Jesus, it's of no benefit to him. And worst, taking the church as a hunting ground.I don't know about their tongue practice so no comment...
for all things go according to God's will... May i know what is the Will of God to you?
This phase appeared many times in the new testiment.
regards
p.s By the way i believe there's no higher class or lower class christian, only christians who understand Jesus or not. Going to church doesn't make you a christian.
I am a mere sinner and I have no access to the true profound knowledge of God and I can say neither can any man on earth do it. Keep asking God and he will give? But in the first place, God makes his arranges on an entirely different platform. View things from an entirely different benchmark. I will not know what is his arrangement for me but his will is to lead a righteous life. The only things I can say is I will try to do what the bible says and hopefully be able to have something that can withstand the flames of judgement. Otherwise, I will only escape the flames of judgement without anything with the acceptance of Christ.God does not want money. Our money is nothing to him. He want our obedience and our loyalty. But there will always be quacks who make use of the superstition of mankind and create a new age of havoc to confuse people. Despite them trying to remind God that they were there for him, God does not recognise these people. And now many of such people roam the earth. God wanted us to jettison all parts that will cause us or others to sin. And being a pastoral staff, indulge in earthly wealth so much that it causes himself or others to sin, then there is an even greater trouble for a higher standard is demanded from teachers than students. No point in telling those who are blinded by the promises of wealth and good life by following the quacks and offering them supply of money in the hope of getting something in return. Let God do the discipline. I am ashamed to say I was one of those who blindly followed the 'prosperity gospel'. And it was only God who had the power to discipline me into hand in order for me to see the truth.
There is a true wealth in heaven awaiting all those who stay faithful to him. Earthly wealth will be nothing when death swiftly sweeps you away. It is the heavenly wealth which we will never know what is it that will truely last. These construction of wealth is the only ones that can be earned by deeds once we have accepted Christ which gives us the right to start earning.
I am a mere sinful human and I cannot even save myself. I can only rely on my trump card; Jesus Christ, as my only guarantee to escape the flames of judgement.
As for the fact of higher class or not. Now I come from a church who had this problem. The members are mainly very high ranking military officers in the SAF (COL, BG), rich successful business who drive a 730i, highly educated phd holders teaching in NUS. Even though these people are those who earned their achievements. They have children who think otherwise of people who come from less privileged background. But I cannot be bothered with such deeds. Every church have their problems. So long the doctrine is right, the church is moving on the right direction, everything will be fine. Just maintain our stand and refrain from judging the rest.
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let me ask you the definition of money?
In financial terms, it is a tool to enable a greater number of trades to take place. if not barter trade have yo take place.
up till now you may be wondering what is all these barter trade got to do with this.
how did we get hold of the money that we have in our pockets? it is from our service at work. therefore, you can say that time equals money, and money is also equal to life.
the reason for us giving is because when we come before God at Salvation, we pray that we place this life that we have on the altar and allow christ to rule and reign in our lives. And how we place this life as a sacrifice, with actions. it is mention in the bible that words without works are dead. thus we use the money that we earn with the time in our lives to sacrifice on the altar.
i don't deny that some newer members come to church with wrong intentions initially. but if such things are being thought through in the older members, how big can a church grow?
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Originally posted by MS:
I am a mere sinner and I have no access to the true profound knowledge of God and I can say neither can any man on earth do it. Keep asking God and he will give? But in the first place, God makes his arranges on an entirely different platform. View things from an entirely different benchmark. I will not know what is his arrangement for me but his will is to lead a righteous life. The only things I can say is I will try to do what the bible says and hopefully be able to have something that can withstand the flames of judgement. Otherwise, I will only escape the flames of judgement without anything with the acceptance of Christ.God does not want money. Our money is nothing to him. He want our obedience and our loyalty. But there will always be quacks who make use of the superstition of mankind and create a new age of havoc to confuse people. Despite them trying to remind God that they were there for him, God does not recognise these people. And now many of such people roam the earth. God wanted us to jettison all parts that will cause us or others to sin. And being a pastoral staff, indulge in earthly wealth so much that it causes himself or others to sin, then there is an even greater trouble for a higher standard is demanded from teachers than students. No point in telling those who are blinded by the promises of wealth and good life by following the quacks and offering them supply of money in the hope of getting something in return. Let God do the discipline. I am ashamed to say I was one of those who blindly followed the 'prosperity gospel'. And it was only God who had the power to discipline me into hand in order for me to see the truth.
There is a true wealth in heaven awaiting all those who stay faithful to him. Earthly wealth will be nothing when death swiftly sweeps you away. It is the heavenly wealth which we will never know what is it that will truely last. These construction of wealth is the only ones that can be earned by deeds once we have accepted Christ which gives us the right to start earning.
I am a mere sinful human and I cannot even save myself. I can only rely on my trump card; Jesus Christ, as my only guarantee to escape the flames of judgement.
As for the fact of higher class or not. Now I come from a church who had this problem. The members are mainly very high ranking military officers in the SAF (COL, BG), rich successful business who drive a 730i, highly educated phd holders teaching in NUS. Even though these people are those who earned their achievements. They have children who think otherwise of people who come from less privileged background. But I cannot be bothered with such deeds. Every church have their problems. So long the doctrine is right, the church is moving on the right direction, everything will be fine. Just maintain our stand and refrain from judging the rest.
John 6:39(Jesus speaking) And this is the will of him who sent me, that I shall lose none of all that he has given me, but raise them up at the last day. 40For my Father's will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day."
Do you look to the Son(Jesus) and believe in Him? If yes and you say you are going to Hell, Jesus has failed the father's will badly. He shall lose none!
Matthew 18:12 “What do you think? If a man has a hundred sheep, and one of them goes astray, does he not leave the ninety-nine and go to the mountains to seek the one that is straying? 13 And if he should find it, assuredly, I say to you, he rejoices more over that sheep than over the ninety-nine that did not go astray. 14 Even so it is not the will of your Father who is in heaven that one of these little ones should perish.
Matthew 7:9"Which of you, if his son asks for bread, will give him a stone? 10Or if he asks for a fish, will give him a snake? 11If you, then, though you are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father in heaven give good gifts to those who ask him!
John 14:7 If you really knew me(Jesus), you would know my Father as well. From now on, you do know him and have seen him."
And finally, let's settle the sin issue!
Romans 6:1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? 2 Certainly not! How shall we who died to sin live any longer in it? 3 Or do you not know that as many of us as were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death?
If you keep on sinning, you are not died to sin yet and Jesus is here!
2 John 1:6 And this is love: that we walk in obedience to his commands. As you have heard from the beginning, his command is that you walk in love.
it's time we look to Jesus and believe in Him!
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Hi M S,
I find it strange that you bullet-riddled your ex-church CITY HARVEST CHURCH till there is no harvest to be reaped.
So now that you have found the right church, as a good Christian will spread God's Word, why aren't you sharing with us your joy of your newly found church?
So, which church is it now? NEW CREATION Church? And you still have to pick faults with other church members who are better off than you? You have a very serious inferior complexity, I fear.
May God spread his mercy on you like butter on a toasted Daily Bread. Amen.
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As I have said, I am mere mortal. Therefore I have no capabilities to help you all understand my intentions and explanations. But if an insult is the way to get your message across, then I think you have to re-consider your priorities carefully. And many have twisted the way how we should view the money given during the service and refused to admit that there is something wrong in some churches in the way tithes are being taken.
I have made my points clear, it is up to God whether you can or cannot understand. I have no wish of an argument. Take care.
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wow good church with lots of lost of money and the pastor is a millionair cause of the many many money rich devotee obsessed to donate cause they all think they sined.
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Originally posted by ixidor:
wow good church with lots of lost of money and the pastor is a millionair cause of the many many money rich devotee obsessed to donate cause they all think they sined.
wrong religion.
christians understands that their salvation is based on what Jesus has done, and the faith on that work on the cross. not their own works.
they give not because they think they sin. they give out of their own heart. if you don't feel like giving, it's ok not to give. i don't give.
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Originally posted by dumbdumb:
they give not because they think they sin. they give out of their own heart. if you don't feel like giving, it's ok not to give. i don't give.
Wow! These are the very famous verses often quoted by tithing teachers that will frighten the shits out of many believers to give.
"Will a man rob God? Yet you rob me.
"But you ask, 'How do we rob you?'
"In tithes and offerings. You are under a curse—the whole nation of you—because you are robbing me. Bring the whole tithe into the storehouse, that there may be food in my house. Test me in this," says the LORD Almighty, "and see if I will not throw open the floodgates of heaven and pour out so much blessing that you will not have room enough for it. Malachi 3:8-10 (NIV). -
Originally posted by MS:
I am a mere sinful human and I cannot even save myself. I can only rely on my trump card; Jesus Christ, as my only guarantee to escape the flames of judgement.
My G-d, Adonai Elohin, Blessed is he King of the universe, will never "BBQ" unbelievers in Hell for eternality cos there is no concept of Hell, like the Hell that is portrayed in the NT.
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Originally posted by o0xander0o:
hey, guys, if you have not yet to grasp the facts in the bible of who Jesus is during his earthly ministry then don't use any of it.
Jesus is the Son of God, (everyone who believe knows) But Jesus was a carpenter before his ministry got started. at that point of time, carpentry is considered as one of the professional jobs if brought into modern context. Seamless was His robe that he wore, and if the robe is not precious or expensive, why would the roman soldiers cast lot over it?
all of his disciples were rich men, fishermens, unlike now, they were professionals. and same goes to the rest. when Jesus told the disciples to feed the congregation or the crowd of thousands, have he thought of it" will they have the money to pay for it?", No, He just gave the orders to do so. because he knew that they have the money to do so.
Our God is heaven is El Shaddai, God of all sufficiency, or simple said, God of more than enough. He is never El "Cheapo". so Don't you dare go around and claim that christian should be poor or living a just enough lifestyle. if Abraham have so much of property and herds that he cannot stay in the same land as his nephew Lot, then we of the modern world of today should use all our creativity to think of being the "head and not the tail" being a leader in the society now! instead of whinning or mocking at something that you will never get to establish, why not do something constructive to your future and for your children and your children's children.
and if you claim that christian's should not want to have material wealth, then tommorrow, first thing in the morning, go sell your every thing and give everything away and try to live a non material life.. i can say not even 3 days you will not be able to take it. in this material world, you want to say something, you got to be a someone in your net worth, only then people want to listen.
understand the facts and the reality of this broken world now! open your eyes to see now.
and don't verbally abuse the church, when you don't see the real things happening.
I see a ministry claiming to be in the mids of building a church. I see regular outreach for the sake of added donations. I see followers being put through the ringer and guilt trips not fr their failure to follow christ but to increase church membership.I have seen so many of your fellow church members come and go losing everything they have to a church that keeps demanding more.
How would you expect us to see what it is you want us to see when all that appears evident is a voracious and unending appitie. And just so you know, i've been around long enough to know where your church came from. How it started and what a joke it is that after so many years in this day and age that they have yet to have an official roof over their heads. Where has all the money gone?
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Originally posted by Sleepy Mosquito:
I see a ministry claiming to be in the mids of building a church. I see regular outreach for the sake of added donations. I see followers being put through the ringer and guilt trips not fr their failure to follow christ but to increase church membership.I have seen so many of your fellow church members come and go losing everything they have to a church that keeps demanding more.
How would you expect us to see what it is you want us to see when all that appears evident is a voracious and unending appitie. And just so you know, i've been around long enough to know where your church came from. How it started and what a joke it is that after so many years in this day and age that they have yet to have an official roof over their heads. Where has all the money gone?
These monetary worldly things was what Jesus tried to clear away. Yet, it still happened in modern christianity. If Jesus was still living today, and these churches built in the name of him, you think he's gonna be happy or frustrated with all the material worldy items?
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Y do church demand $$ in the first place?
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Originally posted by Daniel88:
Y do church demand $$ in the first place?
So that they can built monumental churches, pay the pastor an obscene sum of money every month, drive big cars and still be able to tell all church goers "God loves you".....but more money please. -
Originally posted by Sleepy Mosquito:
I see a ministry claiming to be in the mids of building a church. I see regular outreach for the sake of added donations. I see followers being put through the ringer and guilt trips not fr their failure to follow christ but to increase church membership.I have seen so many of your fellow church members come and go losing everything they have to a church that keeps demanding more.
How would you expect us to see what it is you want us to see when all that appears evident is a voracious and unending appitie. And just so you know, i've been around long enough to know where your church came from. How it started and what a joke it is that after so many years in this day and age that they have yet to have an official roof over their heads. Where has all the money gone?
The authorities have proven their record clean and those "Where has all the money gone?" have been exposed...so be careful where you put your money into. It's up to individual to know if they shall give to the Church. Your Selection of Church. Don't like this church give to next... unless you don't give at all, then it's all up to you.
2 Corinthians 9:6 Remember this: Whoever sows sparingly will also reap sparingly, and whoever sows generously will also reap generously. Each man should give what he has decided in his heart to give, not reluctantly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver. And God is able to make all grace abound to you, so that in all things at all times, having all that you need, you will abound in every good work. 9As it is written:"He has scattered abroad his gifts to the poor;
his righteousness endures forever."Now he who supplies seed to the sower and bread for food will also supply and increase your store of seed and will enlarge the harvest of your righteousness. You will be made rich in every way so that you can be generous on every occasion, and through us your generosity will result in thanksgiving to God.
Be Generous and Do Good
Galatians 6:6 Let him who is taught the word share in all good things with him who teaches.
Do not be deceived, God is not mocked; for whatever a man sows, that he will also reap. For he who sows to his flesh will of the flesh reap corruption, but he who sows to the Spirit will of the Spirit reap everlasting life. And let us not grow weary while doing good, for in due season we shall reap if we do not lose heart. Therefore, as we have opportunity, let us do good to all, especially to those who are of the household of faith.