Who came up with the concept of 'morality'? Was it passed down from the inventive minds of our ancestors or written down by God in the form of commandments and such?
If it was God who came out with 'morality', why is it that the idea of what is right and what is wrong is so inconsistent through-out the world?
I just thought that if doing something would send you to Hell, then surely God would send messengers to all part of the world to tell mankind what exactly is 'morality' all about...and the same message at that, clarifying all doubts about ethics.
But this is not so. Even within different Chirstian factions itselfs, there are disagreements, on issues such as abortion, military conscription, etc.
So how exactly are we going to know if our actions are right or wrong if God did not even made that clear?
Originally posted by annoy-you-must:Who came up with the concept of 'morality'? Was it passed down from the inventive minds of our ancestors or written down by God in the form of commandments and such?
If it was God who came out with 'morality', why is it that the idea of what is right and what is wrong is so inconsistent through-out the world?
I just thought that if doing something would send you to Hell, then surely God would send messengers to all part of the world to tell mankind what exactly is 'morality' all about...and the same message at that, clarifying all doubts about ethics.
But this is not so. Even within different Chirstian factions itselfs, there are disagreements, on issues such as abortion, military conscription, etc.
So how exactly are we going to know if our actions are right or wrong if God did not even made that clear?
morality is from God for only he who creates is fit to judge his creation.all man(including women) is born with this "gut feeling" that some things are right and some things are not.why is this so?cuz we are made in God's image.
y is the idea of right and wrong so inconsitent in the world one might ask. but did everyone accept God's word?are the people from all the nations of the world doing what the bible teaches?
God did sent messengers out to spread his word, he even gets 40++ writers to write his word. and God wants his followers to spread that word throughout the land as it is an impt message.
even within christianity,diff sects do diff stuff,y so?perharps one can consider christianity is no longer as pure as it claims.and religious leaders enjoy the power they wield.some will even go all out to get hold of that power n use God's words to deceive ppl. these religious leaders will dabble into politics and get mighty men of war to support them.hence u gt "christians" from country A calling "christians" from country B brothers and love each other.but when war breaks out btwn this 2 countries, these so called brothers in peace time will stop at nth to kill each other..this is what the Jehovah's Witnesses are trying to avoid so they do not take up arms. as regards to your military conscription issue.
God has made things clear in the bible. humans has made them blur. base what is right n wrong from the bible, not just what ur pastor or frens around u says.
Err I believe morality wasn't on God's plans when God created Adam and Eve.
But Eve and Adam fell to the satan's trap and ate the forbidden fruit that is the fruit of knowledge of good and evil.
And because they broke God's commandment they were thrown out of the garden Eden. Furthermore God has said to them that if they ate the fruit from that tree they would surely die. That was the origin of death according to the bible.
And because now men are like God knowing Good and evil we are liable to be judged for what we do in our life. That judgement would come at the last day.
God from time to time do send His messengers through the prophets most noticably. They spoke the words of God. God even send His own son to free men from the captivity of death. But we must wait our turn. You cannot appreciate this if you do not know what death is.
Originally posted by Miracles&Prophecies:Err I believe morality wasn't on God's plans when God created Adam and Eve.
But Eve and Adam fell to the satan's trap and ate the forbidden fruit that is the fruit of knowledge of good and evil.
And because they broke God's commandment they were thrown out of the garden Eden. Furthermore God has said to them that if they ate the fruit from that tree they would surely die. That was the origin of death according to the bible.
And because now men are like God knowing Good and evil we are liable to be judged for what we do in our life. That judgement would come at the last day.
God from time to time do send His messengers through the prophets most noticably. They spoke the words of God. God even send His own son to free men from the captivity of death. But we must wait our turn. You cannot appreciate this if you do not know what death is.
do u seriously take the eating of the fruit of knowledge of good n bad to be literal?i tink its symbolic. reason being as perfect humans with brains far superior than top scientist,do adam n eve not know wats right n wrong?i tink even a moron would know if from God means right,not from God means wrong should the moron was created as 1st man..
furthermore,mankind can never be like God in knowing Good and Bad for God has infinite wisdom.if we take into a/c of the fruit of life giving eternal life when eaten,why den did God make also a river of life as in rev?having 2 things that grant eternal life is kinda redundant unless all this are symbolic.
i guess tat the command forbidding the eating of fruit of G&B actually means that upon "eating" it, man will know that it is truly bad and evil to go against God's command and it is good to keep God's command.
also on morality, it is diff from laws.it is the qualities of God that enable one to know what should and should not be done.and since we are made in his likeness, we also inherit the same qualities of knowledge.as we also inherit the tendency to sin thru the first couple.
Originally posted by domonkassyu:do u seriously take the eating of the fruit of knowledge of good n bad to be literal?i tink its symbolic. reason being as perfect humans with brains far superior than top scientist,do adam n eve not know wats right n wrong?i tink even a moron would know if from God means right,not from God means wrong should the moron was created as 1st man..
You think it's symbolic but you only think it's symbolic none of us could really know right. I was just stating what the bible taught.
Besides it's better to be humble in the eyes of God and be seen like an idiot in the eyes of men rather than the opposite or worse.
some part of the bible writes things that are actually meant as secret and only through the grace of God we can really know what it means for sure.
Originally posted by Miracles&Prophecies:You think it's symbolic but you only think it's symbolic none of us could really know right. I was just stating what the bible taught.
Besides it's better to be humble in the eyes of God and be seen like an idiot in the eyes of men rather than the opposite or worse.
some part of the bible writes things that are actually meant as secret and only through the grace of God we can really know what it means for sure.
yes...its only my own guess after reading thru the bible.it is indeed the wiset way to be humble b4 God for none is like him..not even jesus.
certain part of the the bible is to be as prophecy and only when it happens den people will know, jus like ishiah had no idea what he was writin about.only when God interpretes it den we will know. =)
Originally posted by domonkassyu:yes...its only my own guess after reading thru the bible.it is indeed the wiset way to be humble b4 God for none is like him..not even jesus.
I have no intention to offend, but this statement... in the days of old, you'd be met with cries of "Heresy!", and honestly speaking, if you don't get this point right, there's a lot of dangerous ground.
Originally posted by domonkassyu:yes...its only my own guess after reading thru the bible.it is indeed the wiset way to be humble b4 God for none is like him..not even jesus.
I haven't seen God the father but I'v seen Jesus quite a while back. And Jesus was Godly enough to me. His face shone brighter than the sun such that the whole body was covered by immense white light. Jesus is my God! Not only because I believe but because I know.
Had Jesus been a liar he would not be in such a glory now. He is alive and not counted among the dead for sure.
Originally posted by Miracles&Prophecies:I haven't seen God the father but I'v seen Jesus quite a while back. And Jesus was Godly enough to me. His face shone brighter than the sun such that the whole body was covered by immense white light. Jesus is my God! Not only because I believe but because I know.
Had Jesus been a liar he would not be in such a glory now. He is alive and not counted among the dead for sure.
nope.jesus is definitely no liar.especially when he said Jehovah is his God.jesus is indeed the most godly among all of God's creations for being the only be gotten son,he spends the most amount of time learning about God.
john 17:3 reads of jesus refering to the father as the ONLY true God. Jehovah/yahweh himself has said "Beside me there is no God" Ish44:6
also apostle paul in 1Cor8:5-6 writes there is one God the father n one lord jesus.so Jehovah God(yahweh God) is unique and no1 else share that uniqueness.
though some scriptures mention jesus as a mighty god eg john 1:1 but never was he termed as almighty.jesus is also said to b a reflection of God's glory.Heb1:1-4.surely reflection does not mean the source of the glory right?
in luke 4:8,jesus himself says tat it is written that it is Jehovah(i will use Jehovah for easy ref) your God that you must worship n to him alone u must render sacred service.
Phil 2:5-6 states that jesus though existing in God's form(spirit being) gave no consideration to a seizure that he should b equal to God,in fact, jesus emptied himself and took on a slave form.
Jesus is surely vey much alive and in glory promised to him by God and sitting at the right hand of God.surely if jesus is already God,he cant be exulted further as written.what is higher then God?and who can exult one to a position higher then God?
I wonder if Adam and eve ate the tree of knowledge of good and evil, isnt that good? To know what is good or bad isnt something bad at all just because God says they cant. I seriously dont understand. I want to hear from readers what are their views.
If you are answering me that this is God's will then forget it =)
Morality also have to use religon to ask?
Originally posted by domonkassyu:nope.jesus is definitely no liar.especially when he said Jehovah is his God.jesus is indeed the most godly among all of God's creations for being the only be gotten son,he spends the most amount of time learning about God.
john 17:3 reads of jesus refering to the father as the ONLY true God. Jehovah/yahweh himself has said "Beside me there is no God" Ish44:6
also apostle paul in 1Cor8:5-6 writes there is one God the father n one lord jesus.so Jehovah God(yahweh God) is unique and no1 else share that uniqueness.
though some scriptures mention jesus as a mighty god eg john 1:1 but never was he termed as almighty.jesus is also said to b a reflection of God's glory.Heb1:1-4.surely reflection does not mean the source of the glory right?
in luke 4:8,jesus himself says tat it is written that it is Jehovah(i will use Jehovah for easy ref) your God that you must worship n to him alone u must render sacred service.
Phil 2:5-6 states that jesus though existing in God's form(spirit being) gave no consideration to a seizure that he should b equal to God,in fact, jesus emptied himself and took on a slave form.
Jesus is surely vey much alive and in glory promised to him by God and sitting at the right hand of God.surely if jesus is already God,he cant be exulted further as written.what is higher then God?and who can exult one to a position higher then God?
I see your point domonkassyu.
I'd like to point out that God the Almighty God, God the Father is pleased with everyone who put his/her faith in Jesus. In fact God wants each of us to put our faith in Jesus. To believe in Jesus and even to love Jesus.
Before I was given the vision of the glorified Jesus, while crying on my bed, God literally gave me an overwhelming love for Jesus just because I thought that Jesus was the only person worth defending as he was really a man of no sin. I loved Jesus so much that I would give anything anything that he asked of me, the love that God gave inside my heart was overwhelming. You see after the love was given to me only then I asked to see the face of Jesus. And only then I was given the vision while fully awake on my bed 16 years ago.
So I know for sure that God wants us to put our faith in Jesus. And that pleases God. Jesus is indeed the only way to the Lord almighty.
and God never command or want us to put our faith in any prophets. To praise and worship any prophets. No. But God wants us to put our faith in Jesus. To love Jesus. To praise and worship Jesus.
Originally posted by wilsonhao:I wonder if Adam and eve ate the tree of knowledge of good and evil, isnt that good? To know what is good or bad isnt something bad at all just because God says they cant. I seriously dont understand. I want to hear from readers what are their views.
If you are answering me that this is God's will then forget it =)
God created man with special privilege: free will. The consequence will be we can either choose God or we don't.
Obeying God's word means we love Him and we choose Him. Won't you feel pleased when you tell your son not to eat the cookies on the table when you leave him until you come back, and knowing that your son don't eat even someone keep telling him to just eat it because it is good. And he don't eat because you say so, and because he love you?
Another fact is that knowledge comes with responsibility, if you don't do anything when you know your brother is stealing, you are considered involved.
That is my view.
Originally posted by malcom:God created man with special privilege: free will. The consequence will be we can either choose God or we don't.
Obeying God's word means we love Him and we choose Him. Won't you feel pleased when you tell your son not to eat the cookies on the table when you leave him until you come back, and knowing that your son don't eat even someone keep telling him to just eat it because it is good. And he don't eat because you say so, and because he love you?
Another fact is that knowledge comes with responsibility, if you don't do anything when you know your brother is stealing, you are considered involved.That is my view.
I get what you mean. But i still do not understand the core. Maybe i'll never.
Originally posted by Miracles&Prophecies:I see your point domonkassyu.
I'd like to point out that God the Almighty God, God the Father is pleased with everyone who put his/her faith in Jesus. In fact God wants each of us to put our faith in Jesus. To believe in Jesus and even to love Jesus.
Before I was given the vision of the glorified Jesus, while crying on my bed, God literally gave me an overwhelming love for Jesus just because I thought that Jesus was the only person worth defending as he was really a man of no sin. I loved Jesus so much that I would give anything anything that he asked of me, the love that God gave inside my heart was overwhelming. You see after the love was given to me only then I asked to see the face of Jesus. And only then I was given the vision while fully awake on my bed 16 years ago.
So I know for sure that God wants us to put our faith in Jesus. And that pleases God. Jesus is indeed the only way to the Lord almighty.
and God never command or want us to put our faith in any prophets. To praise and worship any prophets. No. But God wants us to put our faith in Jesus. To love Jesus. To praise and worship Jesus.
And what if i point to the Islamic point of view that the Koran is the true word of Allah? Who knows God is pleased with people putting faith in Koran and not the gospels?
Originally posted by domonkassyu:nope.jesus is definitely no liar.especially when he said Jehovah is his God.jesus is indeed the most godly among all of God's creations for being the only be gotten son,he spends the most amount of time learning about God.
john 17:3 reads of jesus refering to the father as the ONLY true God. Jehovah/yahweh himself has said "Beside me there is no God" Ish44:6
also apostle paul in 1Cor8:5-6 writes there is one God the father n one lord jesus.so Jehovah God(yahweh God) is unique and no1 else share that uniqueness.
though some scriptures mention jesus as a mighty god eg john 1:1 but never was he termed as almighty.jesus is also said to b a reflection of God's glory.Heb1:1-4.surely reflection does not mean the source of the glory right?
in luke 4:8,jesus himself says tat it is written that it is Jehovah(i will use Jehovah for easy ref) your God that you must worship n to him alone u must render sacred service.
Phil 2:5-6 states that jesus though existing in God's form(spirit being) gave no consideration to a seizure that he should b equal to God,in fact, jesus emptied himself and took on a slave form.
Jesus is surely vey much alive and in glory promised to him by God and sitting at the right hand of God.surely if jesus is already God,he cant be exulted further as written.what is higher then God?and who can exult one to a position higher then God?
Off-topic: Do you understand the Trinity - the triune nature of God? Jesus is not a created being.
Originally posted by Miracles&Prophecies:I see your point domonkassyu.
I'd like to point out that God the Almighty God, God the Father is pleased with everyone who put his/her faith in Jesus. In fact God wants each of us to put our faith in Jesus. To believe in Jesus and even to love Jesus.
Before I was given the vision of the glorified Jesus, while crying on my bed, God literally gave me an overwhelming love for Jesus just because I thought that Jesus was the only person worth defending as he was really a man of no sin. I loved Jesus so much that I would give anything anything that he asked of me, the love that God gave inside my heart was overwhelming. You see after the love was given to me only then I asked to see the face of Jesus. And only then I was given the vision while fully awake on my bed 16 years ago.
So I know for sure that God wants us to put our faith in Jesus. And that pleases God. Jesus is indeed the only way to the Lord almighty.
and God never command or want us to put our faith in any prophets. To praise and worship any prophets. No. But God wants us to put our faith in Jesus. To love Jesus. To praise and worship Jesus.
yes..God indeed wants us to place our trust n faith that jesus is our redeemer from death.n ur vision thing. is very impt to u personally no doubt.perharps u will benefit from knowing that Heb1:1-2 means that wat ever God wanted humans to,it is being done thru jesus the heir.
1cor 13:8 also mentions that prophesying by means of dreams (like the old days b4 jesus) will be done away with..
there are a few better verses that will explain more about ur vision..i will get back to u when i find it.
lastly,the love for jesus and especially of God is not given by God but rather because of our own freewill,otherwise,God will be tempering with our emotions.
Originally posted by SturmDerSchatten:Off-topic: Do you understand the Trinity - the triune nature of God? Jesus is not a created being.
yes..so perharps u maybe able to explain the verses i gave?y is jesus always subjecting himself to God?y does jesus not know the time of the end n only God does..if jesus is part of the Godhead,equal in almightiness with HS n God,y does he not know so many things?n y also is God always said to be without equal if HS n jesus is his equal?how is God able to send himself dwn to earth to die when God has no beginning nor end?n how will God exult God after God died n rise after 3 days so tat God will sit at the right hand of God..n in the end,God dos not know the time to the end as only God will know the time when the 3rd God(HS) is kinda left out of the action?
if i were to phrase what i jus asked entirely in trinity,it will make all who reads it become confused.
Originally posted by domonkassyu: yes..so perharps u maybe able to explain the verses i gave?y is jesus always subjecting himself to God?y does jesus not know the time of the end n only God does..if jesus is part of the Godhead,equal in almightiness with HS n God,y does he not know so many things?n y also is God always said to be without equal if HS n jesus is his equal?how is God able to send himself dwn to earth to die when God has no beginning nor end?n how will God exult God after God died n rise after 3 days so tat God will sit at the right hand of God..n in the end,God dos not know the time to the end as only God will know the time when the 3rd God(HS) is kinda left out of the action?if i were to phrase what i jus asked entirely in trinity,it will make all who reads it become confused.
The Athanasian creed gives a summary of the early Church's teaching on the Trinity :
We worship one God in Trinity and Trinity in Unity, neither confounding the Persons nor dividing the substance. For there is one Person of the Father, another of the Son, and another of the Holy Ghost; but the Godhead of the Father, of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost, is all one, the glory equal, the majesty co-eternal. The Father is made of none, neither created nor begotten; the Son is of the Father alone, not made, nor created, but begotten; the Holy Ghost is of the Father and of the Son, neither made, nor created, nor begotten, but proceeding.
God is without equal simply because there is no other God that can
match His power. The Trinity is not of three Gods. Far from it. The
Trinity is One Ultimate God in three Persons: Father, Son and Holy Spirit. Now, the
Father is not the Son, nor is the Son the Holy Spirit, but the three
Persons are God. (I realize this is already very difficult for many to
understand; I do not pretend to understand it fully.) Know that removing even one Person from the equation ceases for God to exist as each Person is not a God in itself.
At this point you may argue that God could not exist in Three Persons. Well, what is to stop Him from doing that?
What could be plainer than Isaiah 40:18: "To whom, then, will you compare God? What image will you compare him to?"
and Isaiah 46.5: "To whom will you compare me or count me equal? To whom will you liken me that we may be compared?"
Moreover, we know Jesus as the Word of God, and nothing in the Bible states His identity clearer than the opening sentences of the Gospel of John: "The Word was WITH God and the Word was GOD"
Jesus subjects himself to the Father for He is the perfect Son. This does not make Him in any way inferior to the Father in terms of power or ability; it is simply that He follows the Will of the Father. The regional concept of a good son is stricter than today: a son is a representative of his father. Perfect sonship is one in which the son can be considered as the full image of his father and what his father stands for. A perfect son would not rebel nor question his father. In that sense, a perfect son is one with his father, thus John 10:30 says, "Jesus said: "I and the Father are one." and John 14:9: "He who has seen Me has seen the Father." and John 12:45: "He who beholds Me beholds the One who sent Me."
Again, the fact that the Lord admits that He has no knowledge of when the End of Days will arrive is not a sign of inferiority. When God became man in Christ Jesus, God the Son did not "give up" His divine attributes, but simply took on a human nature and denied His human mind access to His divine mind.
Consequently, when He said He did not know something, He was speaking truly since in the incarnation He willingly gave up access to omniscience, though He remained omniscient, since God cannot give up any of His attributes and still remain God (God is unchanging). Therefore, when Jesus said "the Father is Greater than I" (John 14:28), He was referring to His current incarnate position in relation to the first Person of the Trinity.
How is God able to send Himself down to the Earth? In fact, contrary to your assertion, if God is a Trinity, this will answer the question perfectly. God as the Son in the form of Jesus Christ descended upon the Earth and was born of a virgin. The Holy Spirit, who proceeds from the Father and the Son, also roams the Earth to strengthen those of faith.
"Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit." (Matt. 28:19) [Note the use of the singular.]
My friend, in fact, the last few questions can be perfectly understood with the Trinity: Three Persons in whom there is One ultimate God.
Originally posted by SturmDerSchatten:The Athanasian creed gives a summary of the early Church's teaching on the Trinity :
We worship one God in Trinity and Trinity in Unity, neither confounding the Persons nor dividing the substance. For there is one Person of the Father, another of the Son, and another of the Holy Ghost; but the Godhead of the Father, of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost, is all one, the glory equal, the majesty co-eternal. The Father is made of none, neither created nor begotten; the Son is of the Father alone, not made, nor created, but begotten; the Holy Ghost is of the Father and of the Son, neither made, nor created, nor begotten, but proceeding.
God is without equal simply because there is no other God that can match His power. The Trinity is not of three Gods. Far from it. The Trinity is One Ultimate God in three Persons: Father, Son and Holy Spirit. Now, the Father is not the Son, nor is the Son the Holy Spirit, but the three Persons are God. (I realize this is already very difficult for many to understand; I do not pretend to understand it fully.) Know that removing even one Person from the equation ceases for God to exist as each Person is not a God in itself.
At this point you may argue that God could not exist in Three Persons. Well, what is to stop Him from doing that?
What could be plainer than Isaiah 40:18: "To whom, then, will you compare God? What image will you compare him to?"
and Isaiah 46.5: "To whom will you compare me or count me equal? To whom will you liken me that we may be compared?"
Moreover, we know Jesus as the Word of God, and nothing in the Bible states His identity clearer than the opening sentences of the Gospel of John: "The Word was WITH God and the Word was GOD"
Jesus subjects himself to the Father for He is the perfect Son. This does not make Him in any way inferior to the Father in terms of power or ability; it is simply that He follows the Will of the Father. The regional concept of a good son is stricter than today: a son is a representative of his father. Perfect sonship is one in which the son can be considered as the full image of his father and what his father stands for. A perfect son would not rebel nor question his father. In that sense, a perfect son is one with his father, thus John 10:30 says, "Jesus said: "I and the Father are one." and John 14:9: "He who has seen Me has seen the Father." and John 12:45: "He who beholds Me beholds the One who sent Me."
Again, the fact that the Lord admits that He has no knowledge of when the End of Days will arrive is not a sign of inferiority. When God became man in Christ Jesus, God the Son did not "give up" His divine attributes, but simply took on a human nature and denied His human mind access to His divine mind.
Consequently, when He said He did not know something, He was speaking truly since in the incarnation He willingly gave up access to omniscience, though He remained omniscient, since God cannot give up any of His attributes and still remain God (God is unchanging). Therefore, when Jesus said "the Father is Greater than I" (John 14:28), He was referring to His current incarnate position in relation to the first Person of the Trinity.
How is God able to send Himself down to the Earth? In fact, contrary to your assertion, if God is a Trinity, this will answer the question perfectly. God as the Son in the form of Jesus Christ descended upon the Earth and was born of a virgin. The Holy Spirit, who proceeds from the Father and the Son, also roams the Earth to strengthen those of faith.
"Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit." (Matt. 28:19) [Note the use of the singular.]
My friend, in fact, the last few questions can be perfectly understood with the Trinity: Three Persons in whom there is One ultimate God.
my friend, pretty good explanation..in fact the verses u quoted serve even more to pronouce trinity as null.its admirable that u admit u do not fully understand the trinity scope as i believe no man can explain it. now back to jesus day,he n his disciples were preaching to masses usually made up of lowly educated people.and words used to convey messages were simple yet effective.however,none of the messages said anything to relate jesus as being part of a mystical Godhead.rather, in all verses found,jesus is always subjecting himself to God(in order not to confuse anyone,i will use the name Jehovah,jesus n HS) being the perfect son he is.
the 2 ish verss u quote are perfect to..to whom can u compare God to???none..not jesus,not HS,noone..for Jehovah alone is God and to him only shall one render sacred services.
John 1:1 stated the Word was God..should we look at the original words in greek, ho lo'gos) and the context of the verse, we will see great diff..1st,someone who is with another person cant be the same person..eg, i went to the movies with u,can people see u n i are the same person?as of the journal of biblical literature, edited by jesuit joseph a.fitzmyer,he notes that if the latter part of john 1:1 to b interpreted as "the" God,it will contadict the preceding clause reading the Word was with God.
in 1808 new testament in an improved version bible reads as the word was a god(with the small g)
1864 the emphatic diaglott,interlinear reading by benjamin wilson is as "n a god was the word..there r 6 more translation of the same verses that support the word as a god only but not the God.
the greek noun the-os(god) appeared twice in john1:1.1st occurance refers to almighty God was preceded by the word ton(the) to distinct the 2 identities being addressed.
if we understand the meaning of subjecting oneself to another, we will know that for God to subject himself to any other, is very humiliating(ref Ish verses above). also,only lesser beings will subject themselves to another.surely the representative u mentioned means the son is the represenatation of the father,now can u as a son represent yourself as a father to meet somebody else?jus as jesus said i n the father are one,he later also says people who put faith in him are also one with him so in turn one with the father, does the r/s now spans to more den 3 in 1?
though jesus mentioned he who seen him has seen the father, we must not forget that earlier,God also said none can see me yet lives.so is God contradictin himself?NO..but it all makes sense if the son is a very good representative of the father..jus like how humans sometimes says u remind me of ur father..
God sending himself down in a trinity concept will mess things up..read God send God down to b born by a virgin so tat later people will say God has a beginning by being born by a sinful mortal girl.humiliating isnt it? if we read it without trinity involved, God sent his only be gotten son(begotten means already has a beginning,someone must beget the begotten) down to be born by a virgin so tat people will know that God loved the world so much to send his only son to save them.the holy spirit comes from the God in the form of dove upon jesus' baptism.people hear God's approval of jesus.now does almighty God needs an approval from anyone?
matt 28:19 mentions the father,son n hs..its jus as good as grouping tom dick harry together.eg, go make disciples in the name of the abbot,the vice abbot and their pa.does this in anyway support trinity?also, old days did not preach about trinity nor was the idea found throughout the bible.church yes,but not bible..
so the few qns i asked if answered with trinity will only make a mockery.but thanks for the informative reply and sorry for the wall of text n use of short forms.
i have more info of trinity that might interest u in ur quest to gain accurate knowledge of God n form a better r/s with him =)
Originally posted by wilsonhao:I wonder if Adam and eve ate the tree of knowledge of good and evil, isnt that good? To know what is good or bad isnt something bad at all just because God says they cant. I seriously dont understand. I want to hear from readers what are their views.
If you are answering me that this is God's will then forget it =)
hmm, if we take it literally it is a fruit that lets ppl know good n bad, den adam n eve were right to eat it n God was wrong to prevent them from eating it..selfish..
however,God being the one who creates everything knows whats best for all manner of creation right..if he says its not ok,it means sth bad will happen to us if we pursue it.(tink beating red light in a busy road)
the bible says upon eating the fruit,their eyes open n know good n bad.since tats the only command given to them back then n they broke it, i guess it means they know its really bad to go against God n good to keep in God's command.tats y they were ashamed of themselves.
definitely not God's will,or he will be slapping himself since he gave freewill..
Originally posted by wilsonhao:And what if i point to the Islamic point of view that the Koran is the true word of Allah? Who knows God is pleased with people putting faith in Koran and not the gospels?
den we have to carefully examine what God has spoken in both a/cs.again, reading the quran n bible is better den listening to just the religious teachers without double checking with the scriptures..but the point u brought up very sensitive..
Apologies to the thread starter for going off-topic but it is important that folks get the correct idea of the Trinity and the divinity of Jesus Christ.
Originally posted by domonkassyu:... john 17:3 reads of jesus refering to the father as the ONLY true God. Jehovah/yahweh himself has said "Beside me there is no God" Ish44:6
I agree wholeheartedly that John 17:3 and Isaiah 44:6 teach us that there is only one true God and that God the Father (whom you refer to as Jehovah) is that one God. But notice that although the verses say that the Father is the only true God, it doesn't say that only the Father is true God. In other words, we can equally say that the Father is the only true God, the Son (Jesus) is the only true God, and the Holy Spirit is the only true God - three Persons in one true God, all co-eternal and co-equal.
Originally posted by domonkassyu:... also apostle paul in 1Cor8:5-6 writes there is one God the father n one lord jesus.so Jehovah God(yahweh God) is unique and no1 else share that uniqueness.
For 1 Cor 8:5-6, if your assertion is that Jesus is somehow inferior to God the Father because St Paul wrote that there is one God the Father; then by the same token, we should also conclude that there is only one Lord who is Jesus. This would mean that although Jehovah is God, he is not Lord ! This is obviously not correct. So if Jehovah is indeed both God and Lord, then Jesus would also be both Lord and God. This fits perfectly with the notion that both God the Father and God the Son (Jesus) are different persons of the one same God.
Originally posted by domonkassyu:... though some scriptures mention jesus as a mighty god eg john 1:1 but never was he termed as almighty.jesus is also said to b a reflection of God's glory.Heb1:1-4.surely reflection does not mean the source of the glory right?
Whether or not he is termed Almighty, if Jesus is indeed divine and 'a mighty god', he must be that one true God, right ? Afterall, as you've rightly pointed out previously, there is only one God.
As for the term 'reflection', the concise Oxford dictionary gives the meaning of 'reflect' as 'embody or represent in a fiathful or appropriate way'. So to be a reflection of God's glory does not necessarily imply that Jesus is not God. Some other bible translations do not use reflecion but the brightness of his glory (KJV), and the refulgence (shining very brightly) of his glory (NAB).
And speaking of John 1:1, it is only the New World Translation Bible created by Jehovah Witnesses (who by the way do not believe in Jesus' divinity) and a few other translations that read "... and the Word (ie: Jesus) was with God, and the Word was a god".
The vast majority of bible translations in use by both Catholics and Protestants (Anglicans, Methodists, 'mega churches', what have you) translates " ... and the Word was with God, and the Word was God". We can debate about the Greek, about the use of definite and indefinite articles in the translation etc but the bottomline is that the vast majority of credible scholars saw it fit to translate as "... the Word was God".
Besides, as explained previously, Jesus cannot be another (less powerful?) god because there is only one true God.
Originally posted by domonkassyu:... in luke 4:8,jesus himself says tat it is written that it is Jehovah(i will use Jehovah for easy ref) your God that you must worship n to him alone u must render sacred service.
Yes, Luke 4:8 (account of satan's temptation of Jesus) has Jesus saying, "You shall worship the Lord, your God, and him alone shall you serve." Jesus was quoting scripture and as explained above, it does not necessarily imply that Jesus is not God.
Originally posted by domonkassyu:... Phil 2:5-6 states that jesus though existing in God's form(spirit being) gave no consideration to a seizure that he should b equal to God,in fact, jesus emptied himself and took on a slave form.
Jesus is surely vey much alive and in glory promised to him by God and sitting at the right hand of God.surely if jesus is already God,he cant be exulted further as written.what is higher then God?and who can exult one to a position higher then God?
Let me help translate Phil 2:5-6 in simpler terms. St Paul tells us in that passage that Jesus was in the form of God, but instead of asserting his equality with God, emptied himself for us, coming into the world in human form to bring salvation to mankind. The passage doesn't necessarily imply anything about Jesus not being the one true God.
So to Miracles&Prophecies, I'm glad Jesus has touched your life. Do not be apologetic or worry about worshipping Jesus vis-a-vis God the Father. They are different persons of the one same God. Emulate the example of Thomas in John 20:28. When Thomas saw the risen Jesus with the cruxifiction wounds, he exclaimed to Jesus, "My Lord and My God !" or in literal translation from the Greek "The Lord of me and the God of me". Jesus did not rebuke him for blasphemy. Instead, he accepts Thomas' profession of his identity as God.
I agree wholeheartedly that John 17:3 and Isaiah 44:6 teach us that there is only one true God and that God the Father (whom you refer to as Jehovah) is that one God. But notice that although the verses say that the Father is the only true God, it doesn't say that only the Father is true God. In other words, we can equally say that the Father is the only true God, the Son (Jesus) is the only true God, and the Holy Spirit is the only true God - three Persons in one true God, all co-eternal and co-equal.
hi onmia based on this: im starting to think if its just me or i dun knw,from what i understand about ONLY..it means there is but one at anytime,now if dad,son,hs are all only true God.that still makes 3 Gods(be it in one God head or not),also scriptural evidence shows that no one(no one from my understanding means not a single other entity besides the addressee) bsides Jehovah shares his unique position as the true God.
For 1 Cor 8:5-6, if your assertion is that Jesus is somehow inferior to God the Father because St Paul wrote that there is one God the Father; then by the same token, we should also conclude that there is only one Lord who is Jesus. This would mean that although Jehovah is God, he is not Lord ! This is obviously not correct. So if Jehovah is indeed both God and Lord, then Jesus would also be both Lord and God. This fits perfectly with the notion that both God the Father and God the Son (Jesus) are different persons of the one same God.
Jesus will be lord for the 1000years from armageddon till the final test for humanity is it not?after which he will return the position back to Jehovah.by your token, That if Jehovah is both Lord n God,tat will make the son both Lord n God kinda funny..it is written that there are many lords,surely that does not make them all God right?