Originally posted by Danielhuang88:My point is, christianity, is not very tolerant of other faiths. Ever tried converting from a christian to something else? Why not go to your pastor/priest and hear what he has to say.
In SG, all religions must be tolerant of each other.
Christianity itself is considered very tolerant if you take it into comparision with some of the religions from the Middle East.
Originally posted by crimsontactics:That is why there is wars and so much violences happening around the world.
Let me write out a scenario for you,
Jimmy is a Catholic, he worships God and believe everything given to him, which include the 10 coms. According to this, he thinks that other religions are nothing but mere fiction. So, instead of respecting them, he thinks that Islam, Buddhism or whatever are nothing but pure talk.
When other people from these religions hear about it, they will surely be angry and thus comes the racial riots.
The point here is this, we must accept the existance of other religions, which means the existance of their Gods, but we can make a choice on which to believe. With this mentality, we can better respect and appreciate others and their religion.
Nah I'm not from RCC or any organisation.
Im just a decade-and-a-half Catholic who is quite piss at its current state of development.
rcc means roman catholic church...
well, with ur own scenario,lil jimmy here choose a god for himself and declare all other gods as false as being taught in his religion.however, he does not need to run ard to infm other ppl that their religion is false,incurring wrath..also, the bible teaches ppl to be meek.not over zealous like me.if jimmy is to do the word of God, he will preach to others meekly and let non believers see his pov..harsh method does not work..
a true christian accepts that there are other religions and other gods..however they know that only Jehovah is the true living God as according to the bible.and will only worship Jehovah.
Originally posted by Spartans:One of my friend and his immediate family are Christains while most of his relatives are not.
When his grandma passed and Buddhist funeral is chosen, he said 'he cannot go to the funeral because his faith dun allow him to pray using joss sticks.'
I was like wtf! I know he felt sad but then shouldnt filial piety take precedence over these religious issues.
same thing happened to another friend of mine.
his grandpa died and all his sons refused to attend his funeral unless they hold a christian one for him. the grandpa wasn't a christian but to let his sons attend no choice have to hold a christian funeral for him.
same thing here, i was like WTF when i knew about i, i was just commenting to my friend at the funeral that its such a coincidence his grandpa is having a christian funeral when he told me the reason.
my friend quite angry with his uncles but no choice if don't do they won't come.
Originally posted by crimsontactics:
In SG, all religions must be tolerant of each other.
Christianity itself is considered very tolerant if you take it into comparision with some of the religions from the Middle East.
You sure about your statement? Check history in europe and find out more about your faith. I mean no offence here but you must know history.
Hi Danielhuang88, crimsontactics, wilsonhao,
All of you have certain insights that Christianity has a history of violence and intolerance (eg the Crusades). The old testament also indicated the same, when God seemed to help and condoned the Isrealites' killings of others who are of of their same tribe. Yet, this seems so contradictary to Jesus message of love, gentleness, self-control. Is this the same God we are talking about?
This is a contradiction that many Christians feel at the core of their beings,but as we are taught to love only one true God, we often try to ignore these contradictions. Yet there is a split in us - between reason and faith. This is the reason for my long post dated 6 Sep 12.47pm, to share that this does not have to be so.
Sometimes, as Christians we are fearful of asking even basic questions about the origin of the bible. Yet it is strange when at school and at work, we have been trained to be logical and rationale and to look at evidence. When studying history, we learn to ask:"What are the cultural, personal biases of the authors? Who decide that these 66 "books" among so many circulating in history should be compiled into this thing called "the bible"? What were their aims?"
My purpose is to provoke critical thinking. I have gone through this phase and even looking squarely and say yes, Christianity has a history of violence and some parts of the bible are very tribal and very violent. But realiseing this has made me love Jesus all the more because I know he is so different. He was the outcast of his day, he turned the established religious thinking up-side-down, he was a rabble rouser that said: "look, question yourself, what is your motive? is this just a hypocritical act? ".
It seems you 3 have enquiring minds and a social conscience that defies the conventional radical, fundamental forms of Christianity. If you have time, perhaps you can take time to read these 2 books which I have found can be very useful:
A History of Christianity by Paul Johnson published by Penguin (he is a Christian and an Oxford historian. The book is all text only and can be quite trying if you are not familiar with European history but he writes in a very colourful way and you will see how politics, including church politics, have shaped Christianity to the form we see today.)
Rescuing the Bible from Fundamentalism by John Selby Spong (He a Bishop of the Episcopal Church in USA -same as Anglican tradition. He is a liberal Christian theologian. In this book, he says that many ordindary Christians do not have access to scholarly works and modern day research on the origins of the bible, and here he tries to put it in simple laymen language to show you that we cannot take the bible literally. It is a very interesting read)
Originally posted by Maggie.meepok:Hi Danielhuang88, crimsontactics, wilsonhao,
All of you have certain insights that Christianity has a history of violence and intolerance (eg the Crusades). The old testament also indicated the same, when God seemed to help and condoned the Isrealites' killings of others who are of of their same tribe. Yet, this seems so contradictary to Jesus message of love, gentleness, self-control. Is this the same God we are talking about?
This is a contradiction that many Christians feel at the core of their beings,but as we are taught to love only one true God, we often try to ignore these contradictions. Yet there is a split in us - between reason and faith. This is the reason for my long post dated 6 Sep 12.47pm, to share that this does not have to be so.
Sometimes, as Christians we are fearful of asking even basic questions about the origin of the bible. Yet it is strange when at school and at work, we have been trained to be logical and rationale and to look at evidence. When studying history, we learn to ask:"What are the cultural, personal biases of the authors? Who decide that these 66 "books" among so many circulating in history should be compiled into this thing called "the bible"? What were their aims?"
My purpose is to provoke critical thinking. I have gone through this phase and even looking squarely and say yes, Christianity has a history of violence and some parts of the bible are very tribal and very violent. But realiseing this has made me love Jesus all the more because I know he is so different. He was the outcast of his day, he turned the established religious thinking up-side-down, he was a rabble rouser that said: "look, question yourself, what is your motive? is this just a hypocritical act? ".
It seems you 3 have enquiring minds and a social conscience that defies the conventional radical, fundamental forms of Christianity. If you have time, perhaps you can take time to read these 2 books which I have found can be very useful:
A History of Christianity by Paul Johnson published by Penguin (he is a Christian and an Oxford historian. The book is all text only and can be quite trying if you are not familiar with European history but he writes in a very colourful way and you will see how politics, including church politics, have shaped Christianity to the form we see today.)
Rescuing the Bible from Fundamentalism by John Selby Spong (He a Bishop of the Episcopal Church in USA -same as Anglican tradition. He is a liberal Christian theologian. In this book, he says that many ordindary Christians do not have access to scholarly works and modern day research on the origins of the bible, and here he tries to put it in simple laymen language to show you that we cannot take the bible literally. It is a very interesting read)
the entire bible does not contradict itself even though it may look like it.think of it as knowing the diff qualities God.JC shows the side of God that is called love.in the OT where an eye for an eye is to show the justice side of God.having endless love will result in weakness and being partial.that is not a god to be worshipped.but having justice to reward the righteous and punish the wrong doers makes God righteous.
in the Ot when we see God favouring certain tribes and aiding them to kill, one might feel he is cruel and evil.but we should see who are the ones being destroyed and how righteous they are.tink about the story of lot who ask God to spare his hands if righteous ppl can be found in the city God is to destroy.
not all parts of the bible is to be taken literally of cuz.since many a times, it is clearly that certain parts are symbolic.certain times,it might not be that clear.so only when things happen, do we know if the prophecy has been fulfilled or not.
Originally posted by domonkassyu:rcc means roman catholic church...
well, with ur own scenario,lil jimmy here choose a god for himself and declare all other gods as false as being taught in his religion.however, he does not need to run ard to infm other ppl that their religion is false,incurring wrath..also, the bible teaches ppl to be meek.not over zealous like me.if jimmy is to do the word of God, he will preach to others meekly and let non believers see his pov..harsh method does not work..
a true christian accepts that there are other religions and other gods..however they know that only Jehovah is the true living God as according to the bible.and will only worship Jehovah.
Lol sry bout the RCC thing, i thought it was some kind of organisation. Didn't know the short form.
About the meekness part, in today's society where free speech is bring promoted and everyone wants to present the POV, i'm sure my scenario is very likely to happen.
The problem is this, accepting the religion does not mean respecting it. If you accept something that is false, would you respect it? Yes i know, such a thing should be quite straightforward, however, after a long period of time, you will still feel unease at having to accept something that you deemed false, right?
And the worst part is when the opposite side thinks that our God is fake too -.-
Then the conclusion I guess you all will know. So why not we just have the mentality that all Gods are real? It is much more easiler to respect a real thing.
Originally posted by wilsonhao:You sure about your statement? Check history in europe and find out more about your faith. I mean no offence here but you must know history.
The war between the Protestant and Catholic in the 18th century and the recent conflict in N.Ireland right?
While the Middle Eastern religions are still worst. Imagine crushing the hands of a little girl of 8 by the wheels of the car for stealing bread. Could anything else be much worst?
Originally posted by domonkassyu:the entire bible does not contradict itself even though it may look like it.think of it as knowing the diff qualities God.JC shows the side of God that is called love.in the OT where an eye for an eye is to show the justice side of God.having endless love will result in weakness and being partial.that is not a god to be worshipped.but having justice to reward the righteous and punish the wrong doers makes God righteous.
in the Ot when we see God favouring certain tribes and aiding them to kill, one might feel he is cruel and evil.but we should see who are the ones being destroyed and how righteous they are.tink about the story of lot who ask God to spare his hands if righteous ppl can be found in the city God is to destroy.
not all parts of the bible is to be taken literally of cuz.since many a times, it is clearly that certain parts are symbolic.certain times,it might not be that clear.so only when things happen, do we know if the prophecy has been fulfilled or not.
Still, killing is one of the mortal sins. How do you explain that?
Originally posted by crimsontactics:Lol sry bout the RCC thing, i thought it was some kind of organisation. Didn't know the short form.
About the meekness part, in today's society where free speech is bring promoted and everyone wants to present the POV, i'm sure my scenario is very likely to happen.
The problem is this, accepting the religion does not mean respecting it. If you accept something that is false, would you respect it? Yes i know, such a thing should be quite straightforward, however, after a long period of time, you will still feel unease at having to accept something that you deemed false, right?
And the worst part is when the opposite side thinks that our God is fake too -.-
Then the conclusion I guess you all will know. So why not we just have the mentality that all Gods are real? It is much more easiler to respect a real thing.
hehe..no big on the rcc =)
well, like u said, in today's society,the want of lettin people know our pov..is it not being haughty n high?
as christians, when they accept christ as saviour and Jehovah as God, they deem all other religions as false..but yet, they accept the existence of false gods but that does not mean they have to go tear dwn every other temple of baal..instead, they can show others that their living God is true by their outstanding behaviour of applying bible principles.that will be a more politically correct move too.
lastly, true christians do not need to respect false religions though they accept their existence. they can jus shun them.
Originally posted by domonkassyu:hehe..no big on the rcc =)
well, like u said, in today's society,the want of lettin people know our pov..is it not being haughty n high?
as christians, when they accept christ as saviour and Jehovah as God, they deem all other religions as false..but yet, they accept the existence of false gods but that does not mean they have to go tear dwn every other temple of baal..instead, they can show others that their living God is true by their outstanding behaviour of applying bible principles.that will be a more politically correct move too.
lastly, true christians do not need to respect false religions though they accept their existence. they can jus shun them.
And shunning them will lead to bad relationship, allow it to manifest and you'll get all the problems happening around the world today.
Originally posted by crimsontactics:Still, killing is one of the mortal sins. How do you explain that?
in God's law, there is such a thing as death penalty.. =)
Originally posted by crimsontactics:And shunning them will lead to bad relationship, allow it to manifest and you'll get all the problems happening around the world today.
ehz..shunning them does not mean that wah u taoist i christian means i dun talk to u at all, dun even help u press life button..but shun them in their practice. i believe a core argument point is the funeral thingy..make it known that traditions and religion is different.to forego God's commandments jus to follow pagan traditions is sinning gravely against God..
again the funeral thingy,to make the christian offer joss sticks to the dead will pls the family as well as the demons.this does not respect the christian too..
if the christian does not offer joss sticks but use another form to mourn for the dead in their own ways, does it not become a win win situation?
recently i attended a few funerals of my frens parents, i told them that i will not offer joss sticks however, i still stand b4 the dead and show respect to him.and mourn for my frens' lost loved one with them.they will not fully understand y i cant offer joss sticks, an act that seems small.but they know im upholding my faith and yet does not disrespect or belittle them.
many so called christians do not understand the gravity of God and satan.no middle gnd here.
Does Bible mention how Satan is born ? or How God is born?
Originally posted by domonkassyu:ehz..shunning them does not mean that wah u taoist i christian means i dun talk to u at all, dun even help u press life button..but shun them in their practice. i believe a core argument point is the funeral thingy..make it known that traditions and religion is different.to forego God's commandments jus to follow pagan traditions is sinning gravely against God..
again the funeral thingy,to make the christian offer joss sticks to the dead will pls the family as well as the demons.this does not respect the christian too..
if the christian does not offer joss sticks but use another form to mourn for the dead in their own ways, does it not become a win win situation?
recently i attended a few funerals of my frens parents, i told them that i will not offer joss sticks however, i still stand b4 the dead and show respect to him.and mourn for my frens' lost loved one with them.they will not fully understand y i cant offer joss sticks, an act that seems small.but they know im upholding my faith and yet does not disrespect or belittle them.
many so called christians do not understand the gravity of God and satan.no middle gnd here.
Don't they say that faith comes from the heart? If your parents are taoist and demand that you offer joysticks to your grandparents, would you defy your parents or offer joystick just to pacify your parents?
This is because among the seven major charities in Singapore which has given a clean bill of health by the Commissioner of Charities (COC).
5 are Christian Organisation! Campus Crusade Asia; City Harvest Church; Faith Community Baptist Church; New Creation Church; and Trinity Christian Centre; Kong Meng San Phor Kark See Monastery; Kwan Im Thong Hood Cho Temple.
These organisations were selected based on their total annual income, which exceeded S$10 million a year.
Having more $$$ means can be a big brother around.
offer joss sticks liao den pray for forgiveness lor. simple.
Originally posted by Zerg:Does Bible mention how Satan is born ? or How God is born?
satan yes..he is one of the angelic hosts that God has created thru the prehuman jesus long ago n far away..
God no..God has no begining...he is the 1st alive and the last alive..meaning he has neither beginning nor an end.
Originally posted by NoobUnited:Don't they say that faith comes from the heart? If your parents are taoist and demand that you offer joysticks to your grandparents, would you defy your parents or offer joystick just to pacify your parents?
hw u know my real life scenario?i was called to offer joss sticks n other offerings to my dead grandma..at first, i was weak, i offered up the stuff though i knw its wrong.jus to pacify my parents.after that i pray to God to ask for forgiveness.now i make my point known to them and no more offering to the dead.faith not only comes from heart but also thru accurate knowledge of God.
Originally posted by despondent:then should we defy the One who gave us our parents or dun offer joss sticks in obedience to Him???
Maybe the opposite. The question at the end of the day is; should we defy one who gave us life and bring us up, or one who has created our ancesstors long ago
Originally posted by wilsonhao:Maybe the opposite. The question at the end of the day is; should we defy one who gave us life and bring us up, or one who has created our ancesstors long ago
tink about when jesus recruited one of his disciples(i dun remember who is who anyway).he ask jesus to wait while he go back home to say sayonara to his family.guess wat jesus told him,kena screw by jesus.(maybe someone can quote the verse)so by that eg, we should already know who to not defy.
Originally posted by despondent:y dun u kill someone and then ask the law to pardon u???
correct me if i'm wrong but does God not forgives?