Why the Christian Bible no stated that God make dinosaurs AH ?
And where the tower of babel ruins ? No pple found it leh...Even Dinosaur's thousand years ago remains can be found.
And the Noah Ark hor...say they managed to put all animals on Earth in their one boat leh..How can that be ? u take the one dog catergory species nia already got like hundreds leh if i not wrong.
Then insects leh...bery bery strange..Unless the Noah Ark boat is ten time the size of the modern Titanic la..And how he managed to sources all the animal in the world in one day? Hahaha siao bo..And many many more interesting stuffs in the bible.
Pls enlighten me.
Bible and having faith in God is not for everybody. And eternal life in the presence of God is also not for everybody. I mean God is for everybody but in the end those who truly put his faith in God and truly become His followers are chosen people. I'm sorry but that is my answer.
Go read scientific journals! Might answer your questions on Dinosaur and such. Maybe sometime later in the future you would be called to follow God but I think today is not the day.
Many postgraduate degree holders or even professors also do not believe in the existence of God. They are doing fine. I hope you will too. I wish you all the best and may someday God call you to understand His way.
I like to ask another question..
Why do churches have statues/paintings of Jesus or pendants of them..and they kneel down before Jesus when they pray?
But Exodus 20
3Thou shalt have no other gods before me.
4Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.
5Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me.
Originally posted by Master -_-:I like to ask another question..
Why do churches have statues/paintings of Jesus or pendants of them..and they kneel down before Jesus when they pray?
But Exodus 20
3Thou shalt have no other gods before me.
4Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.
5Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me.
Haha, this is a very good question and is also a fact. Well, im not a christian so i cant so much about this. But i believe that if other religions who have sculptures and images are titled the name pagan, such act is pagan to me too. And images also mean symbol. And i believe cross is a symbol too. So to people who have been condemning other religions, pls stop condemning.
Don't listen to Miracles&Prophecies.He is misleading you.Those scientific journals are fake one.
Originally posted by Master -_-:I like to ask another question..
Why do churches have statues/paintings of Jesus or pendants of them..and they kneel down before Jesus when they pray?
But Exodus 20
3Thou shalt have no other gods before me.
4Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.
5Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me.
Churches that have statues of saints or Jesus or Mary the mother of Jesus is Catholic church. Christian Protestant church doesn't have all these.
The Catholics do not worship the statues. We may pray in front of the statue but we do not pray to the statue or worship them. The statues are there to help us in our prayer. It holds no spiritual value whatsoever. Yes it is depicting Chirst or Mary or other saints but it is not Chirst or Mary or any saints. However the Protestant stricly won't admit statues in their churches for fear and beliefs that you mentioned/asked.
The exodus in the bible wants to prevent people from worshipping idol in the form of graven images. Catholics do not worship statues. We may pray in front of them but we do not pray to the statues. We can pray anywhere and we pray and worship God not the statues. However what considered sacred to the Catholics are not the statues but the already blessed eucharist that is considered to have the presence of Jesus in it. We may bow to the blessed eucharist(in the shape of a circular white bread) it's called adoration.
You must know why the rules were laid out in the old testament. The motive behind the rules is more important. Jesus himself was rejected by the religious authorities because he broke many Moses' laws like resting on Sabbath among other things. Jesus healed a number of people on the day of Sabbath and the religious authority hated him for that. The Sabbath was meant to honor God by not toiling and to symbolize that the Israelis belongs to God. Only free men can rest too. Jesus didn't dishonor God by working on Sabbath instead He honored God by working on Sabbath. Jesus also spoke that what comes out of your mouth is more important than what gets in. So now Christians think they are free to eat pork.
When it comes to God who knows your heart and know you more than you know yourself our motives become everything. For example: If you could save an innocent person life by lying to the authority then do so if not you will sin. So in this example lying is not a sin.
You also cannot be saved just by coming to the sermons everyweek. That has no value to God. The reason that you come to the church everyweek is not to save you but for you to grow in spirituality by bonding with other believers and by listening to the gospel and to recieve Christ in the form of the blessed eucharist for the same reason to keep you strong in faith and to grow. But cosmetics religion will get you no where(you will no see the work of God in your life or enjoying a relationship with God in your life). Nor will it save you from the world of the dead.
Why I said what I said in my first post is because it is better for people to have never known Jesus and the Lord than to have believed in God and the son of God but rejected them later for whatever reasons.
"And you shall make two cherubim of gold [i.e., two gold statues of angels]; of hammered work shall you make them, on the two ends of the mercy seat. Make one cherub on the one end, and one cherub on the other end; of one piece of the mercy seat shall you make the cherubim on its two ends. The cherubim shall spread out their wings above, overshadowing the mercy seat with their wings, their faces one to another; toward the mercy seat shall the faces of the cherubim be" (Ex. 25:18–20).
[David gave Solomon the plan] "for the altar of incense made of refined gold, and its weight; also his plan for the golden chariot of the cherubim that spread their wings and covered the ark of the covenant of the Lord. All this he made clear by the writing of the hand of the Lord concerning it all, all the work to be done according to the plan" (1 Chr. 28:18–19).
Catholics decorate churches with graven images and statues simply because God commanded them to do so in Scripture.
Similarly Ezekiel 41:17–18 describes graven (carved) images in the idealized temple he was shown in a vision, for he writes, "On the walls round about in the inner room and [on] the nave were carved likenesses of cherubim." Ezekiel describes graven images in the temple consisting of carved likenesses of cherubim. These are similar to the images of the angels and saints in many Catholic churches.
Since the days of the Apostles, the CC has made it clear that it is against idolatry.
The Second Council of Nicaea (787), which dealt largely with the question of the religious use of images and icons, said, "[T]he one who redeemed us from the darkness of idolatrous insanity, Christ our God, when he took for his bride his holy Catholic Church . . . promised he would guard her and assured his holy disciples saying, ‘I am with you every day until the consummation of this age.’ . . . To this gracious offer some people paid no attention; being hoodwinked by the treacherous foe they abandoned the true line of reasoning . . . and they failed to distinguish the holy from the profane, asserting that the icons of our Lord and of his saints were no different from the wooden images of satanic idols."
The Catechism of the Council of Trent (1566) taught that idolatry is committed "by worshipping idols and images as God, or believing that they possess any divinity or virtue entitling them to our worship, by praying to, or reposing confidence in them" (374).
"Idolatry is a perversion of man’s innate religious sense. An idolater is someone who ‘transfers his indestructible notion of God to anything other than God’" (CCC 2114).
There is a succint difference between using a wood and plaster image to lift one's mind to the supernatural and worshipping it.
I wonder since the pastor takes centre stage in the protestant church and people are praying/singing hyms/kneeling etc in front of him, are they worshipping him?
Originally posted by grandmaster89:Catholics decorate churches with graven images and statues simply because God commanded them to do so in Scripture.
Similarly Ezekiel 41:17–18 describes graven (carved) images in the idealized temple he was shown in a vision, for he writes, "On the walls round about in the inner room and [on] the nave were carved likenesses of cherubim." Ezekiel describes graven images in the temple consisting of carved likenesses of cherubim. These are similar to the images of the angels and saints in many Catholic churches.Since the days of the Apostles, the CC has made it clear that it is against idolatry.
There is a succint difference between using a wood and plaster image to lift one's mind to the supernatural and worshipping it.I wonder since the pastor takes centre stage in the protestant church and people are praying/singing hyms/kneeling etc in front of him, are they worshipping him?
wouldn't know. my pastor stands along side us and we worship the projector screen.
only you know whether you're worshipping that idol or not. well, God knows too yeah.
my question is. if the protestants don't need a graven image to lift their minds to the supernatural, why do the catholics need it?
so with the graven image, your spiritual level +5 to your stats? without it, you become a regular fellow such that others can't tell from your life, whether you're a christian or not?
if you're recognised as a christian by others, only when you're wearing a cross or crucifix, meaning without it, ppl don't know, can't tell, then you're in big trouble
Unbelievers always want facts in order to believe. That's the difference.
If there's no Tower of Babel, then Nebuchadnezzar II and Xerxes didn't exist either.
Many archaeologists and historians believe that the ruins exist near the banks of Euphrates.
Originally posted by googoomuck:Unbelievers always want facts in order to believe. That's the difference.
If there's no Tower of Babel, then Nebuchadnezzar II and Xerxes didn't exist either.
Many archaeologists and historians believe that the ruins exist near the banks of Euphrates.
lol, well, nobody's asking them to believe in a fairy tale. it's only natural they want facts, and signs and wonders. That's why Jesus does miracles. If he doesn't, and insist that they believe on just blind faith, he's mad. simply mad.
Originally posted by dumbdumb!:wouldn't know. my pastor stands along side us and we worship the projector screen.
only you know whether you're worshipping that idol or not. well, God knows too yeah.
my question is. if the protestants don't need a graven image to lift their minds to the supernatural, why do the catholics need it?
so with the graven image, your spiritual level +5 to your stats? without it, you become a regular fellow such that others can't tell from your life, whether you're a christian or not?
if you're recognised as a christian by others, only when you're wearing a cross or crucifix, meaning without it, ppl don't know, can't tell, then you're in big trouble
Firstly, it is God that commands us to build such graven images in Scripture and Tradition. I have shown u scripturial verses where God commanded the Israelites to build various images of angels and statues in his Temple. Why is that? It is to merely decorate the place or is there a deeper purpose? This brings us to the second point. There is a huge difference in worshipping in an area that is filled to the brim with god-centred matter. Tell me honestly, can ur mind focus on God just as well as in Church as in a Rock Concert? Hmm maybe u could, but must people need a clear direction and God has clearly provided one. God, understanding Man's fallacy, has provided an medium (matter) to help lift our minds to the supernatural.
I find your rather Gnostic leanings most disturbing.
Originally posted by Advante_101:Why the Christian Bible no stated that God make dinosaurs AH ?
And where the tower of babel ruins ? No pple found it leh...Even Dinosaur's thousand years ago remains can be found.
And the Noah Ark hor...say they managed to put all animals on Earth in their one boat leh..How can that be ? u take the one dog catergory species nia already got like hundreds leh if i not wrong.
Then insects leh...bery bery strange..Unless the Noah Ark boat is ten time the size of the modern Titanic la..And how he managed to sources all the animal in the world in one day? Hahaha siao bo..And many many more interesting stuffs in the bible.
Pls enlighten me.
Certain stories in the bible are meant to be metaphoric.
Originally posted by dumbdumb!:lol, well, nobody's asking them to believe in a fairy tale. it's only natural they want facts, and signs and wonders. That's why Jesus does miracles. If he doesn't, and insist that they believe on just blind faith, he's mad. simply mad.
Since you have earlier argued that people have no need to satisy their senses to believe in God and worship him, why then do you argue now the necessity of miracles (which caters to the visual and audio senses) to turn people's supernatural mode on? I thought all matter was evil my gnostic friend?
For the different denominations in the Christian family, i have a simple layout that may enlighten the non-believers or hopefully allow us Christians to co-exist in harmony.
In a big company, there are many departments. For one, there is the Accounts department, the Sales Department, the Human Resource Department, Research and Design or even Marketing Department... The larger the company, the more diverse in their structure, right?
All these departments work in different fields and under different managers. Of course there are the general company rules like not being late for work, no stealing of confidential information blah blah but within the department, it also have a set of rules that only applies to staff within that department... right?
Protestants may have rules that doesn't allow them to wear crosses with the Lord in the middle but Catholics are allowed. So why go into minor rules? Why compare among departments? Engineers do not complain why they can't they wear open toe shoes in their workshop compared to accountants sitting in the offices when the regulations states so.
Look at Christianity as a big corporate company that has many departments... The Protestants, The Roman Catholics, The Eastern Orthodox, The Presbyterians etc... All of us are in different departments in a big company but we all work for one BIG BOSS... God and any squabbling among the departments will only prove futile and unproductive. So instead of comparing, why not admire the practice and work of different denominations.
Some of the statues are of great masterpiece... really, just go to the Nativity or even St.Joseph Church next to the National Library and admire the art of creation.
False analogy.
you can say it's inaccurate or not relevant... why false? please explain.
Originally posted by grandmaster89:Firstly, it is God that commands us to build such graven images in Scripture and Tradition. I have shown u scripturial verses where God commanded the Israelites to build various images of angels and statues in his Temple. Why is that? It is to merely decorate the place or is there a deeper purpose? This brings us to the second point. There is a huge difference in worshipping in an area that is filled to the brim with god-centred matter. Tell me honestly, can ur mind focus on God just as well as in Church as in a Rock Concert? Hmm maybe u could, but must people need a clear direction and God has clearly provided one. God, understanding Man's fallacy, has provided an medium (matter) to help lift our minds to the supernatural.
I find your rather Gnostic leanings most disturbing.
and God also commands us to eat kosher, I don't see that happening in the catholic church either.
get my drift?
i'm not saying that i understand why God asked the jews to build the tabanacle in this way, but it's very clear cut about idolatry. my question is, without them, are you affected in your prayer life? if you are, then something is wrong isn't it. Because God's not in the statue, or part of it. so why should your prayers be less focused if the statues aren't there?
if your prayer life isn't affected whether the statues are there or not, then it's a good thing, which also proves that you don't need statues to help you focus or concentrate or whatever you want to call it.
Originally posted by grandmaster89:
Since you have earlier argued that people have no need to satisy their senses to believe in God and worship him, why then do you argue now the necessity of miracles (which caters to the visual and audio senses) to turn people's supernatural mode on? I thought all matter was evil my gnostic friend?
now you're putting words in my mouth and taking what i say out of context.
i'm saying that, your reasons for endorsing idols isn't a good one. because if you need the idols there to help you concentrate, means that it plays a big part in your spiritual walk, which means without it, you're crippled, which doesn't make sense, because God's not part of the statue, so why should the presence of the statue affect (adverse effect or otherwise) your prayers and worship?
if the lack of statues doesn't affect your prayer and worship, you' would have proven that having statues there is irrelevant to your worship, so why do you need it?
as for miracles, the danger about it is that some christians become miracle chasers, and get lost chasing miracles and joining cults etc. tts the only definite danger i see about it, but miracles show the glory of God too. Healing the sick, freeing the demon possessed.. it's not even in the same level as idolatry, that i feel you all practice. (but if one is too focused on miracles, it replaces the importance of God, and it becomes an idol in its own rights)
Images of Jesus and the saints have been used for decorational and devotional purposes since the beginning of Christianity. Today, only the most grossly uninformed person gives any credence to the old accusation that Catholics worship these statues or pictures.
Several hundred years ago, the Council of Trent explained the practice perfectly: "The images of Christ, the Virgin Mother of God, and of the other saints are kept and honored in churches not because it is believed that there is any divinity or power in these images, or that anything may be asked of them, or any faith put in them.
"The honor shown to them is really being given to the persons whom they represent. Through these images which we kiss, and before which we bow with bared heads, we worship Christ, and not the saints whose likenesses they display."
Even many Catholics do not realize that, since such pictures and statues become intimately connected with what people believe about God and his revelation, the church is very careful about what images are allowed for public veneration. All such pictures or sculptures must be approved by the bishop or other proper authority.
The reasons most Protestant denominations do not allow images in their churches are varied. One is that, early in the Protestant Reformation there was much misunderstanding about the meaning of honoring images of Jesus and the saints nd "no statues" became one of the symbols of protest against the church of Rome.
Perhaps a more significant reason is that many early Protestant leaders, especially of the Calvinist and other Puritan traditions, were extremely austere and considered any sort of display, color, or emotion, such as might be encouraged by statues and pictures, totally out of place in religious worship.
This reminds me of a friend’s encounter with a Christian once. I forget where he met him, but my Catholic friend asked the other person, "Are you a Christian?" So as to differentiate between Catholic Christians and Protestant Christians, the other person responded, "I am a Protestant." And my friend went, "I see, so what are you protesting against?"
While it is true that many Protestants today don’t know why they are called Protestants, it is also true that many Catholics don’t know why they are called Catholics. They just see it as just another name or label, but do we see what’s beyond that label? Or do we just see the external?
Indeed this is the very problem that causes the misunderstanding regarding statues and images - that we see only the external and do not see what’s beyond.
One good example is the use of photographs. Protestants may not have statues or images in their churches, but I am positive that they have photographs of their loved ones in their wallets, on their office desks, in their homes. I can also bet that if they got a chance to meet a famous person, they would at least take a photo with him and have it framed up on the wall.
Images of Jesus and the saints have been used for decorational and devotional purposes since the beginning of Christianity. Today, only the most grossly uninformed person gives any credence to the old accusation that Catholics worship these statues or pictures.
Several hundred years ago, the Council of Trent explained the practice perfectly: "The images of Christ, the Virgin Mother of God, and of the other saints are kept and honored in churches not because it is believed that there is any divinity or power in these images, or that anything may be asked of them, or any faith put in them.
"The honor shown to them is really being given to the persons whom they represent. Through these images which we kiss, and before which we bow with bared heads, we worship Christ, and not the saints whose likenesses they display."
Even many Catholics do not realize that, since such pictures and statues become intimately connected with what people believe about God and his revelation, the church is very careful about what images are allowed for public veneration. All such pictures or sculptures must be approved by the bishop or other proper authority.
The reasons most Protestant denominations do not allow images in their churches are varied. One is that, early in the Protestant Reformation there was much misunderstanding about the meaning of honoring images of Jesus and the saints nd "no statues" became one of the symbols of protest against the church of Rome.
Perhaps a more significant reason is that many early Protestant leaders, especially of the Calvinist and other Puritan traditions, were extremely austere and considered any sort of display, color, or emotion, such as might be encouraged by statues and pictures, totally out of place in religious worship.
sorry, double pasted it
Originally posted by Master -_-:I like to ask another question..
Why do churches have statues/paintings of Jesus or pendants of them..and they kneel down before Jesus when they pray?
But Exodus 20
3Thou shalt have no other gods before me.
4Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.
5Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me.
Get your facts right.
Only Roman Catholic Church adherents do that.
lol, my personal question is (no need to reply me, it's for yourself to think about it)
is your prayers and worship affected (positively or negatively) by the presence of the statue? (if it's there, prayer skills +5, if it's not there, worship power -10?)
if it is affected, what does it mean? maybe it means that your prayers and worship isn't anchored on God after all (we now worship in spirit and in truth)? Do you feel more worshippy if you see a statue, or worshipping God don't occur to you, so long as you don't see the statue?
the way i see it, if you are affected that way, it might be worth considering that your object of worship may not be God after all.
if your prayer life and worship isn't affected if the statue isn't there, then you'd have proven that it's irrelevant to the worship of God.
just something to think about, ya? And no, i'm not interested in textbook history about why it's justified to have statues. my question is simply this. is your prayer life and worship of God affected by the presence of the statues?
well, i do agree with your opinion and i have nothing against it. "to each his own" i would say.
many times when i pray outside of Church, like before exams, before meals or in need, i do not need the picture or statue of God to be in front of me. i just do the sign of the cross and start my prayer. even in the presence of statues and pictures, the prayer is still of the same "substance". nothing has changed. it does not increase prayer skill nor worship power.
anyway, i do most of my prayers without any statue or pictures. plus most of the time, my prayers are done when i'm outside so no chance to dash to the nearest Church to look at statues, haha... so i think it's quite irrelevant to use statues or pictures as a gauge. prayers are mostly answered when done in private.
another thing to point out... if one only prays in Churches but not on a daily basis outside Church then i guess they have to reflect on their faith... like when you wake up, there is a morning prayer, "Thank you Lord for letting me see the day again, give me strength to do your will and keep me safe from all danger and evil, Amen"
we don't do this in front of statues right? we just got out of bed so unless your room is full of statues... no comment.
next, during meals... do we run in front of a statue of the Lord and pray or do we just thank God for the meals that He provided at the same time sitting on the very table that we are going to eat? no statues needed again... we don't even take out a picture of the Lord and start praying in the foodcourt... (very weird right?) you will have many empty seats around you.
during exam, if you take a statue or a picture of the Lord to the examination hall... you are in serious trouble. as if the invigilator will allow... hahahhaha... they will think you hid answers in the picture or statue. but we still make a quick prayer, asking the Lord to help us not forget what we have studied and if possible, tell us the right answers... (hopefully)
last, before we sleep... we either sit on the bed or kneel next to it and pray that if we are not going to see the dawn of day, may the Lord have mercy and take our souls to heaven. in need of statues or pictures? nope... so in fact, our exposure to statues and pictures are very limited on a daily basis... so how can our prayers be affected with our without statues?
anyway, the Church has evolved ever since the beginning of Christianity... the lines have become blurred and rules bent for the benefit of humanity... who are we to decide who breaks what laws in the bible or who is guilty of whatever crimes written in the law of Moses.
there are so many questionable facts that even scholars today after hundred years of debates and studies found no conclusive results for many queries that still linger in our mind. the bible has many quotes that we mere mortals can never understand... for example Genesis 6:2 says, "the sons of God saw that the daughters of men were beautiful, and they married any of them they chose". who are the "sons" of God when Jesus was proclaimed as the ONLY Son of God... some says it's Nephilim, some says it's angels... who can be sure?